Foreigner

Even though your OCD does not demand certainty, it does sound like it demands probabilty. And isn`t that why we perform compulsions? To replace uncertainty with probabilty? The question is if we instead should embrace that uncertainty.

There`s a thin line between this and rumination, like it is with my strategy on deciding wether something is ocd by looking at the content. I would like to hear opinions on wether this is a good strategy, and if I get you right taurean, you think it is.

The danger with that approach, is that it is not unlikely that ocd will make one doubt what is actually probable and what is not. It is not unusual for sufferers to actually believe their obsessions.

When it comes to obsessive thoughts, I have learned to accept uncertainty, but I struggle to embrace it. And is that even necessary? I have different obsessions that trouble me at the time. They cause distress, and to be honest, they reduce my life quality. I know what life is like without ocd, and I hope I can get back there. I see no point in hiding that the difference between life with and without ocd is like hell and heaven. When it comes to the obsessive thoughts, I have as I pointed out above, learned to accept the uncertainty, but I don`t embrace it. I have to admit that I may even offer myself assurance. When an obsessive thought come, I automatically consider the content of the thought. I have read that I shouldn`t do that, that I should just meet the thought with a shrug and a "maybe-maybe not". Even when I was in therapy and I presented my thoughts to my therapists, I registred that even she asked me a few questions to just sort out what this was (like if I was afraid of having HIV, she asked if there had been unprotected sex). And I too do that, and I actually experience that to some degree am capable of concluding. When a thought comes, I do, as I said, consider the content of the thought, and in addition I identify the ocd characteristics (obsession, distress, need for certainty, need to do compulsions). Within maybe five to ten minuttes, I am able to conclude that this is probably ocd. That doesn`t mean that "the problem is solved". The obsession returns frequently, and the doubt is still there (and I accept it), but then I try not to get involved in it. Sometimes I succeed, sometimes I don`t. I know that I won`t be more certaint if I just "think" more about it. Now I need advice to wether I am dealing with things in a expedient way? What do you think? Is it sufficient to accept uncertainty, or should one also embrace it (even induce doubt)?

What was there to forgive?

That was my suggestion too, PolarBear. Sometimes the English language provides more nuances than Norwegian. This was also a short article, probably written by someone who doesn`t pay any particular attention to wether this was precisely put seen from an ocd-perspective. I know a lot about ocd, and an imprecise news article shouldn`t worry me. Still, it did. Probably because I have ocd. But am I ruminating/doing compulsions when I argue like that? This brings me on to my next question. You did answer my question here, PolarBear. Isn`t that assuring? I don`t mean to be rude in any way, but sometimes when I read posts in here I become a bit confused. When is it ok to offer assurance, and when is it not?

I suddenly remembered that I once read a news article about a criminal that claimed that it was his obsessive thoughts that made him do horrible actions. He had confessed to his psychiatrist, who didn`t believe him and thought he had some sort of false memories. It turned out he didn`t. He had actually done this. I really don`t know how I should relate to this matter. I have, as most of you others in here, dozens of obsessive thoughts all the time. I think I am making progress when it comes to not performing compulsions (ruminating), the only thing I kind of "hang on to" is the knowledge I have learned about ocd and recovery through different channels. This case kind of attacks that very knowledge, as a core understanding of our illness is that our thoughts do not define us or decide or actions in any way. What do you think of this?

You`re welcome. I believe the key is not to go into the thoughts. You have to look at them from outside, identify the ocd-characteristics and give them the shrug. I know it`s hard, because you feel so irresponsible when you don`t "examine/investigate" (ruminate) your thoughts further, but I believe it is the only way. I once read that "if you believe it`s ocd, it probably is". I would also add: "If you`re in doubt wether it`s ocd, it probably is".

This is a sentence often presented to people suffering with ocd. I allow myself to be a bit wary, as I see that this can easy lead into compulsion/rumination. The thing is that ocd-sufferers really doubt that their obsession is just a thought, and not something real. Then they do compulsions to prove that it is in a fact just a thought. I try to keep it simple stupid when it comes to identifying ocd. Are you in doubt, do you feel distress and a strong need to be certain? It`s a good chance it`s ocd. Take the leap of faith!

Thank you. I`ve practiced this quite well for a year now. I just need to get back on the horse.

That was an expression that wasn`t easy to translate into Norwegian, but I guess you try to say that I kind of have the "recipe" right? I guess the next is to take the famous leap of faith, and maybe I save myself for some trouble if I just now take all my intrusive thoughts and collect them in this "can of ocd". The mechanism is the same anyway. If I could ask you one last question PolarBear. I wonder if you have any advice on how I should deal with problem that even when I try to use the "manual", I mess things up. Like when I use you check list, the ocd adresses that exact operation and makes me doubt wether it is an intrusive thought or a real risk, wether it is a need to compulsions or to carry out responsible and necessary actions.

I can answer your questions with yes, yes and yes. I think I should go for alternative 1 in my first post. What I find hard here, is whenever I am facing what I believe is a good cance of beeing something ocd-related, I should not go into the content of that matter. You recommend it all the time in here PolarBear (do not ruminate, who cares, whatever, etc), my therapist does the same thing (her prefered answer to the "ocd questions" is maybe - maybe not) and I also remember watching a youtube-video of an aknowledged ocd-expert (Reid Wilson) who said "never go into the content". It seems as the only thing you should do, is to identify the ocd-characteristics (as you list above) and if you are able to do so, you should treat it is like ocd (don`t answer the questions, accept the doubt and go on). Because, as you use to say, ocd always lie. I feel so irresponsible, both ethical and when it comes to risk assesments (sometimes I can fear that something can happen if I don`t do this and that) when I just let these thoughts be. How can I then know, or at least say something about, the ethics and risk relating to these thoughts. And what I find really challenging to, is that I observe that non-sufferers do kind of consider the content of their thought when they experience intrusive thoughts. Like if a person got an intrusive thought about harming a loved one, I would guess that he within secons just shrugged the thought off with a "of course not, I love that person" and so went on with his day. If I get it right, that approach is not possible for us sufferes, because we will never accept any assurance (as our amygdala is looking for a new danger/doubt). That means that we have to learn to deal with this thoughts in a way that actually differs a bit from what others do. Anyway, if I follow your check-list, my mind is playing with me on that matter to. Like today I have spent a lot of energy trying to figure out what seperates an ocd-thought from a real risk (everyone would go the doctor if their head suddenly grew 50 percent over night). I guess you are not surprised to hear that I did not find the answer.

I have never written it here before, even though I`ve been refering to it many times. I just feel it is very scary posting it here. I just have to "jump in it". I remember when one of my kids were infants, I had her on my lap playing. I remember that I touched her nipples for fun on one occasion. That is the past event.

I obsess over a past event. I consider that I have two alternative approaches: 1) I can choose to treat it as ocd. I can welcome the doubt and anxiety, and try not to pay any more attention to it, which means no more compulsions. 2) I can treat it as "not ocd". That means that this is something I should pay attention to, and that I should do what is responsible and right (the same as compulsions above). For example if I wonder if I have done something criminal, I should contact the police. How should I move on from here?

I just want to thank you for all consideration and good advice. I am home now, and working on getting my head back on track. I wish you all the best.