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If you eat rubbish expect to feel like rubbish!


Guest Tricia

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I do still really miss some unhealthy foods, but I resist them. By doing so I avoid depression.

If only it was that simple......

There are different types of depression and whilst 'mood' can be improved by diet and exercise, depression is another kettle of fish entirely. Depression is an illness just like OCD is and when it's severe is known as MDD or Major Depressive Disorder and something you cannot avoid by diet alone anymore than you could avoid OCD by diet alone.

Both OCD and depression can probably be improved to by diet, to an extent - after all, a healthy diet is important to mind and body, but it's more likely to occur when both disorders are mild.

Depression is as misused a term as OCD can be sometimes.

I have suffered from depression and OCD since childhood, and when both began, my diet was perfectly healthy. A few years ago I was a hair's breadth from suicide because of OCD and depression and again, prior to that, my diet was perfectly healthy and I was getting plenty of exercise.

I wonder if those who have had to resort to measures as drastic as bariatric surgery think their "pleasure based" addiction to food was a doddle to give up......

Edited by CJay
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I am not referring to low mood, but deep long-lasting depression that led to many suicide attempts. Diet can help this for many of us (as well as exercise and vitamin D.)

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I understand what you're referring to, Tricia.

I wonder how the families of those who have actually committed suicide would feel to be told that all their loved ones had to do was change their diets...... if indeed, their diets even needed changing.

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I have suffered from depression and OCD since childhood, and when both began, my diet was perfectly healthy. A few years ago I was a hair's breadth from suicide because of OCD and depression and again, prior to that, my diet was perfectly healthy and I was getting plenty of exercise.

Exactly the point I tried to make yesterday CJay, that some of my friends are gym bunnies, eat healthy 100% of the time but their OCD was still a problem that needed dealing with, and it was the hard work of therapy that made them better, not having a healthy diet.

Healthy body = healthy mind... I go along with that if we are talking about mood, but OCD and depression are far more complex than just being about diet.

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I am not referring to low mood, but deep long-lasting depression that led to many suicide attempts. Diet can help this for many of us (as well as exercise and vitamin D.)

You need to stop saying this Tricia, you are making it sound like severe depression can be miraculously improved by just improving your diet, which is utter nonsense. Diet can work on a person's mood, which in turn may help a little but severe depression in 99.9% of cases will need more than just improved diet.

I am getting a few complaints about this too, so it is bordering on the edge of being closed.

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Thank you, Sarah! xx

Well, Ashley, many studies would disagree with you.

Please feel free to close the thread if you so wish.. Unlike you, I am not saying anything can be overcome for everyone, no matter what the therapy or treatment, but it has been proven in studies and anecdotally (my mother also suffered many years of deep depression, and it was diet and exercise that saved her) that diet and exercise can make a huge difference to depression and stress levels.

I actually began this by saying I am tired of those who bombard me with calls asking for advice, at all hours, without even being prepared to stop eating a junk food diet.

I suppose I should have started a thread saying if you won't do CBT don't whine at me. That is always acceptable.

I wonder how the families of those who have actually committed suicide would feel to be told that all their loved ones had to do was change their diets...... if indeed, their diets even needed changing.

I am totally mystified by this remark and how this thread has turned out to be honest! All I was trying to say is that people should not keep asking for my advice, repeatedly at all hours, if they are not prepared to try a healthier approach. I never claimed there were guarantees!

P.S. I am in one of those families who has a loved one who killed himself.

Edited by Tricia
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I feel bad for you tricia, the way the thread has gone. Forgive me as I have only just started to read some threads again since everything with my mum. It's clear your actually just trying to help people by offering them advice on what to try ie. The healthy eating. X

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I totally agree with what Saz has said in her last 2 comments.

If you read Tricia's first comment she has explained what she means.

I think it would be a shame to close this thread,and really can't see why.

I personally am very grateful to Tricia for taking the time to help us on here.

Thanks Tricia xx

Edited by daisy
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Diet

Poor diet and general lack of fitness can both contribute to depression. In addition, anecdotal evidence suggests that occasionally people become very depressed in response to some specific foods. Such a reaction is very individual, and people are often not aware of the particular food substance or drink that is causing the problem. But if you suddenly feel depressed for no apparent reason, it may be worth considering whether you have eaten or drunk something new, and whether this might have caused your sudden change of mood. If this is the cause, your mood should lift very quickly, so long as you don’t consume any more of the particular item. (See Food and mood.)

Keep active

Research and individual personal experience show that regular exercise can be very effective in lifting your mood and increasing your energy levels, and it is also likely to improve your appetite and sleep. Physical activity stimulates chemicals in the brain called endorphins, which can help you to feel better.

Care for yourself

You need to do things that will improve the way you feel about yourself.

  • Allow yourself positive experiences and treats that reinforce the idea that you deserve good things. eg a long bath, a day out with a friend.
  • Pay attention to your personal appearance.
  • Set yourself goals that you can achieve and that will give you a sense of satisfaction.
  • If you find it hard to remember things, you may want to write them down on sticky notes, in a diary or set reminders on your mobile phone.
  • Look after yourself by eating healthily, as much as possible. Oily fish, in particular, may help reduce depression.
  • Be cautious with tobacco, alcohol or other drugs, which make depression worse, and a lot of caffeine which may make you a bit jittery.

All of the above are taken from MINDS web site. I don't believe diet alone will "cure" depression, OCD, anxiety but as Tricia says, improving our diets can only help improve mood and that in turn improves other conditions. It can't be a bad thing. There are enough studies showing the effects many foods have on us and in many ways, physical and mood wise. Behavioural problems and learning issues have frequently been shown in children with diets high in sugars, additives etc.

The causes of depression can be complex and many fold, not (we are now told) by a chemical imbalance and probably needs a multi-pronged approach of treatment of which a healthy diet and exercise are frequently recommended.

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Well, Ashley, many studies would disagree with you.

One of the first things I learned, when I went to university, was to be selective with regard to "studies". For every one saying one thing there will be another saying something else entirely.

I don't think anybody is disagreeing with you that diet and exercise can help severe depression, but it most certainly isn't a cure all.

Edited by CJay
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All of the above are taken from MINDS web site. I don't believe diet alone will "cure" depression, OCD, anxiety but as Tricia says, improving our diets can only help improve mood and that in turn improves other conditions. It can't be a bad thing. There are enough studies showing the effects many foods have on us and in many ways, physical and mood wise. Behavioural problems and learning issues have frequently been shown in children with diets high in sugars, additives etc.

The causes of depression can be complex and many fold, not (we are now told) by a chemical imbalance and probably needs a multi-pronged approach of treatment of which a healthy diet and exercise are frequently recommended.

Chicken and egg. Did poor diet contribute to depression or did depression contribute to poor diet.

Of course people are going to be advised to eat healthily and take exercise, I don't doubt that both can improve mood.

When people are severely depressed often diet, exercise and looking after themselves in general goes out of the window. As I mentioned previously in this thread, it's one of the diagnostic criteria.

When I was severely depressed, a few years ago, I wasn't looking after myself at all and that includes things like washing and bathing...... I didn't want to live.

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All I was trying to say is that people should not keep asking for my advice, repeatedly at all hours, if they are not prepared to try a healthier approach.

Which is exactly why we don't encourage people to use the PM box for advice. Most of us here are not experts, we just have our own opinions so none of us are the font of all knowledge so in everybody's best interests we encourage people not to seek advice in PM.

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Chicken and egg. Did poor diet contribute to depression or did depression contribute to poor diet.

Of course people are going to be advised to eat healthily and take exercise, I don't doubt that both can improve mood.

When people are severely depressed often diet, exercise and looking after themselves in general goes out of the window. As I mentioned previously in this thread, it's one of the diagnostic criteria.

When I was severely depressed, a few years ago, I wasn't looking after myself at all and that includes things like washing and bathing...... I didn't want to live.

I agree when I got ill at 19 with ocd I was the most active and happy and was eating the most healthily then I probably had ever been. I still got terribly ill and by age 20 I was struggling to eat and was living on anything I could to survive most of which was junk food. Edited by Gemma7
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I think we can all agree that diet and exercise can, in some cases, help with anxiety and mood (so it is always worth trying to improve them if we can) but like anything, and as every individual situation is different, it is not a guaranteed cure and no one should be judged.

Please can we bear in mind how much Tricia is currently struggling.

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Me too.

Despite her own particular difficulties - challenging for anyone for a short time let alone the norm - she is reaching out to seek to help others, knowing that it might help only a few but may make a big difference to them.

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Please can we bear in mind how much Tricia is currently struggling.

We are all struggling in some way.

Sorry I am a little lost here, someone starts a forum thread, some other people disagree with the emphasis of the topic.... it's a discussion forum. If any user feels they are not well enough to participate in a debate then we always encourage people to take a step back if they need to.

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I do appreciate that Ashley (that was my motivation for writing what I did) and I apologise if I've misjudged things. I wasn't trying to criticise anyone, it's just that I felt that the thread was borne out of hurt and despair on Tricia's part, and if read in that context, would be better understood and less likely to upset anyone.

Edited by Lost_in_a_Dark_Maze
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I backed off on this thread because I could see it had the potential to get heated. Now that we're there I'll throw my two cents in again. In broad strokes I'll talk about depression and anxiety but I'll mostly stick to OCD, since that's what I know about and that's what this forum was set up for.

We can all agree that it's a good idea to eat a well balanced diet. Doing so has many health benefits. Yes, the brain is an organ and will do better if it receives the proper nutrition. Perhaps diet can have a positive effect on depression and anxiety. Great.

However, improving ones diet and taking certain vitamins is not a substitute for tried and true treatments that we know work for the vast majority of people for OCD. Harping on people to change their diet when they are suffering from OCD is like suggesting someone put a bandage (plaster) on a gaping wound when what the person really needs is stitches. What works for OCD is CBT, with or without medications. That's it. There seems to be this wave lately of posts suggesting alternative treatments for OCD, such as taking vitamin D. I will point out that the proponents of vitamin D are, in large part, stuck doing compulsions, so I have to ask in all honesty, what good is the vitamin doing in the treatment of OCD?

Some people get stuck looking for alternative treatments for OCD but quite frankly there are none. If there was something that worked beyond CBT and meds, we'd all know about it and we'd all be touting its benefits. Sure, taking vitamin D supplements might be good for your overall health. But it's not going to have a adversely positive effect on your OCD. You're not going to cure yourself of OCD with vitamin D or a well balanced diet or even come close to it.

Yes, there are benefits to some of these suggestions. But I think on the forum lately they have served as a distraction from the tried and true treatment of OCD.

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I think that the discussions about vitamin D and diet in general were about putting our bodies in the best possible position for fighting OCD, and alleviating any extra anxiety, depression, fatigue, etc. where possible. I don't think it was being suggested as an alternative treatment for OCD? That was how I understood it anyway.

Edited by Lost_in_a_Dark_Maze
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It looks to me that there's quite a few crossed-wires in this discussion.

I read Tricia's first post as venting her frustrations about feeling she's being used as a sounding board. It's hard, Tricia, when you get into this role to lay down new boundaries and stick to them, but you could try telling people that for your own health and wellbeing you are uncontactable between x and y times (for example, eight in the evening and nine in the morning). It's a fair ask and about looking after yourself. If someone is coming to you in crisis, they need to call the Samaritans, Mind, other mental health lines.

As for diet—and I'm addressing the thread generally now—I think it's a touchy subject and it's easy to misinterpret things and feel judged. I know I tend to receive conversations about food with my family through a hyper-sensitive filter that skews my understanding to the negative. I'm aware of this, and try to take moments to retune my automatic reactions (often defensive) and consider how the speaker is probably intending things in a more positive way. Just because I feel attacked, doesn't mean I'm being attacked!

I didn't read anyone in this thread as implying healthy eating can cure OCD, just take a supportive role during recovery, but I can see how some posts could have been read as such.

I took a short nutrition course on my mother's request and recognised, in hindsight, my earlier relapse was probably contributed to by the state of my diet. I wasn't eating junk at the time. In fact, I was eating mostly vegetables, pasta, and porridge! Low-fat everything else. Because of a messy shared kitchen, I gave up cooking eggs. Since most of my housemates were veggie, and I was too scared to deal with raw meat, I wasn't getting any protein. No good fats, no protein, and no cholesterol (the "mother of all hormones"), so I wasn't giving my body any of the raw ingredients to cope with my declining mental health. But I wasn't eating what's typically thought of as junk food, either! My poor diet didn't cause my relapse, and would probably have only held at bay the inevitable, but I wasn't doing myself any favours. Changes in medication and more therapy made the biggest difference, but food plays a supporting role.

When I have the money, I'm going to get some good quality fish oil supplements to thicken my myelin sheaths!

(Also just remembered I need to reintroduce my "get out of the house every day!" habit. It's harder now I'm living with my family in the countryside, and can only do nature walks rather than wander into town for a coffee to change things up a bit, but with dedication I can do it again!)

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Orwell - about fat and illnesses such as fibro - I have fibro and I can say that whether I am overweight or not I still struggle with pain and fatigue. Maybe one of the reasons people with these kinds of illnesses are overweight is that having an illness like fibro can makes a massive impact on your ability to exercise. I frequently feel frustrated about what I cannot do but wish I could and for some time I made my condition worse by pushing my body to exercise more than it was ready for.

As for ocd and diet I don't think diet makes a direct impact on ocd. Due to ocd there was a time when there was only a few healthy foods I was allowed to eat and during those times the ocd prevented me from eating most sugars (except those ones such as fructose in fruit). My ocd wasn't improve by the change in diet nor has any other dietry change impacted on it. The only real benefits I can see for ocd in a healthy diet and exercise is that people often feel more confident and alert when they exercise enough - I guess that confidence enables us to fight the ocd more. A recent study suggested exercise outdoors helps depression and that makes sense - especially when vitamin D in sunlight is taken into consideration.

There are lots of medical conditions that impact on our weight too - a fat person doesn't necessarily have a poor diet. Conditions such as PCOS or cushings make an impact. I have PCOS due to insulin problems starting in childhood - I was very trim when it started. Now I have to work solidly at exercise and diet thoroughly and I am lucky if I can lose half a pound in a week or so. Out of curiosity has anyone ever thought about psuedo cushings and weight caused by the stress of the constant anxiety involved in living with or fighting ocd?

Hi Tricia - thank you for replying. Yes I do know as the consultant started out from a standpoint of tackling my difficulties as probably being caused by vitamin D as my levels were undetectable in a blood test. Mega doses later and on a long term prescribed daily supplement unfortunately I am still in pain and suffer with fatigue and fog. It was only after the low vitamin D was resolved, other issues ruled out through blood tests and some time had passed that I was finally given the fibro diagnosis. It's encouraging to know that there are consultants who are vitamin D aware and rule this possibility out first along with ruling out thyroid and so on. I'm just starting physio so am hoping that will help and an adjustment in walking habits - switching to a slower pace and avoiding hills has improved my ability to get out and walk further - which all helps in vitamin D exposure :). My psychiatrist was curious about how the vit D would affect my mental health and whether it would improve it - so far it hasn't but the CBT I am having is making a massive difference.

I hope things are improving for you.

Sara :)

Sorry for this late reply, Sara.

I'm very sorry getting your D level up didn't help with your fibro. You are right, it is encouraging that there are doctors who are aware of the possibility that low D is causing physical (and mental) symptoms for many. It's just such a shame that it wasn't the cause of yours.

Please don't think I am critical of anyone who is overweight. I do fully appreciate the conditions you mentioned and how incredibly difficult it is for many to lose weight, and in some cases impossible to exercise.

I must admit to being at the end of my tether when I began this thread, having more than one so-called friend phoning me at all hours. Each of them eats appallingly (each of them could exercise but doesn't want to) and none has ever even tried to help themselves. And even then, I would not be moaning, or judging, if they weren't burdening me and driving me mad!

Edited by Tricia
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