Issues with sleeping

[kaheath80]

I'm really sorry I keep posting about more and more things! I have so many OCD symptoms. But there is one that has been bothering me more the last few days and I need advice. If you've followed my posts you'll know I do resist trying to get better at times because I like the attention. But this latest one is about sleeping and not sleeping leaves me incredibly depressed so I am desperate to get over this.

When I was younger I developed a big insomnia problem. It went on for years. I don't know how it started but it kept going because I would panic all night in case i could sleep, and then because I was panicking it came true and I barely slept. 

It eventually got better, partly because I was put on anti depressants that help me sleep. But I have it from time to time and if I have to get up early I won't sleep well as I'll panic I won't sleep and won't get enough sleep.

The last few days it's got worse. I had two days holiday off work and woke early and couldn't get back to sleep as I was panicking I wouldn't sleep. Last night was even worse, I spent 10 hours in bed, slept 7 and panicked the other 3. I realise 7 hours sleep is ok, but it's the hours awake worrying that are the problem, and I worry about when I go back to work and have to get up early. 

The reasons I think it might be OCD:

1. I know people can get OCD about breathing or their heart beating etc. I think this could be similar? I worry I've forgotten how to sleep, and will never sleep again.

2. I ruminate about it in my head over and over.

3. The anxiety is terrible.

4. I realised there are other compulsions. I used to always go and wake up my parents and tell them I couldn't sleep. They used to get annoyed but I had to do it. Last night I was trying to resist checking the alarm was set, which meant I couldn't look at the clock, as when I check the time I can see the alarm is set. But I realised I have a compulsion to check the time and try and work out how much sleep I might get if I fall asleep soon etc. Because resisting looking at the clock made me anxious and in the end I had to keep checking the time.

Does this sound like OCD and does anyone else have experience of it? How can I get over it? I tried to relax and not worry about how much sleep I'm getting, but I just felt so anxious. Assuming this is OCD, I think it must be one of my worse symptoms.

 

[taurean]

43 minutes ago, kaheath80 said:

Does this sound like OCD and does anyone else have experience of it? How can I get over it? I tried to relax and not worry about how much sleep I'm getting, but I just felt so anxious. Assuming this is OCD, I think it must be one of my worse symptoms.

 

It seems you have various themes suggesting OCD.

If you connect with an OCD intrusion , you give it strength and will encourage compulsions.

So the trick is not to worry about non-sleeping - wortrying about it creates anxiety and it is difficult to sleep when we are anxious - so you are actually creating an anxiety spiral, then worrying more about non-sleeping, is it OCD etc., perpetuatating the circle of anxiety!.

The solution therefore lies in your mental reactions, triggering emotional and physical response (anxiety).

With this, as in all flavours and themes of OCD, adopting an indifferent, "so what" response to the triggers is the way forward. My therapist B told me to just think "oh that's my silly obsession!" then get on with something involved and beneficial.

Others just think "that's not me, it's my OCD" then determine to, and do, reflocus away as above.  

Edited August 20, 2016 by taurean
typo

[kaheath80]

Thanks both.

Jaques- thanks but I'm not really sure why that's relevant! I'm pretty sure I am not bipolar.

Taurean- thanks, trouble is even if I try not to consciously worry I still feel anxious and then I can't sleep. I'll try tonight to be more ruthless. In the end, what worked was thinking about something else as otherwise I just keep thinking about how I'm not asleep and freaking out about it and looking at the clock. 

It's true that I get kind of obsessed with having to know exactly what is OCD. But if I have to make a list of all my obsessions and compulsions for therapy eventually, how do I know whether to put it on the list if I'm not sure it's OCD?

[PolarBear]

Jacques, why are you posting irrelevant materials in people's threads?

Kaheath, I suggest you take up relaxation exercises or mindfulness so you can learn to relax before going to bed. Also, you really need to work on not ruminating. It's not easy but it can be controlled.

[kaheath80]

Thanks polar bear. I think the ruminating is the worst thing, although is it likely that looking at the alarm clock to check the time and working out how many hours I might sleep is also a compulsion? Should I avoid looking at the clock?

[kaheath80]

I am anxious about lots of things! But the thing keeping me from sleeping is anxiety about sleeping...

[jimangie1973]

Hi kaheath80,

I have the exact problem as you and it's definitely OCD.  I had it all but forgotten until I went off my SSRI and it's been back for 6 weeks now.

I have had other obsessions but this one is the worst for me.  The thought of my anxiety and intrusive thoughts keeping me awake scares me badly.

I'm back on meds and taking a sleep aid for now.  My therapist says i've got to face the fear and essentially do what Taureen said, but easier said than done.

-Jim

[kaheath80]

Interesting, thanks Jim. Yeah every time I try to come off my antidepressants I can't sleep and I have to go back on them. But this time I'm still on them and I still can't sleep. You're right, it's not easy not to panic about it.

[taurean]

1 hour ago, kaheath80 said:

I am anxious about lots of things! But the thing keeping me from sleeping is anxiety about sleeping...

That is what is known as a paradox!!! 

Stop worrying about not sleeping - just be indifferent about it. 

PB is spot on, work on relaxing and switching your focus away from fretting checking analysing (all compulsions). 

Don't worry about what is or isn't OCD. A good therapist will sort that out in therapy - it's not for you to agonise over (which of course triggers more anxiety). 

[kaheath80]

I just hate being tired. We've been out today and I feel like the whole day is ruined because I was tired. I'm already worrying in case I don't sleep tonight. 

This has got to be one of my worst OCD things. The thought of not sleeping is making me hugely anxious.

[taurean]

2 minutes ago, kaheath80 said:

 

This has got to be one of my worst OCD things. The thought of not sleeping is making me hugely anxious.

This is what is perpetuating the problem. 

You need to break that circle of anxiety. Spoke that wheel. 

What activities can you lose yourself in tonight to break the connection to that obsession that is keeping it in the front of your thinking? 

[kaheath80]

I don't know. I'm watching the Olympics but as soon as it's time for bed I start panicking again. I just feel hopeless.

[taurean]

23 minutes ago, kaheath80 said:

I don't know. I'm watching the Olympics but as soon as it's time for bed I start panicking again. I just feel hopeless.

You feel hopeless because you can't just turn a switch and go to sleep. 

Well maybe just now it seems that way, but it's all about making thinking and behavioural changes, in order to get the desired result. 

I have a number of specific relaxation music CDs and a CD player by the bed. 

I play those and read a really interesting book, to ease down my mind. 

Try lying on the bed, just allowing your muscles to relax, and listening to relaxing music - there are stations on the radio if you can't play on a CD or music player 

Focus into what you are reading and to what you are listening.

It's all about switching from the active "doing" part of the brain - which carries out the obsessing and compulsing - to the benign "being"  part of the brain, which calms and relaxes and where the brain goes quiet. 

Anxiety is a learned response. But we CAN retrain our brains over time, as described above, so the relaxation response is our learned behaviour. 

[kaheath80]

Thank you. I'm going to try my best.

[carolinevtn]

Hi Jim, hi Kaheath,

I've suffered of this hideous obsession also for a long time. Now when I'm afraid about it,  instead of fighting anxiety I try to make it come and actually it makes it decrease. It's the same with the breathing obsession.

Unfortunately, it doesn't work with the blinking one....

I'm not sure what I say is  clear because of my english, sorry.

[kaheath80]

Made perfect sense to me, thanks!

I slept much better last night, I tried not to think about sleeping. I did however wake up earlier than I had hoped and then couldn't get back to sleep because I was panicking I wouldn't sleep.

im feeling anxious already about tonight's sleeping but trying not to think about it.

[taurean]

You have to work on not worrying about getting to, or back to, sleep. 

But remember, trying NOT to think about it won't work, any more than trying to neutralise intrusive thoughts ; you have to focus you attention elsewhere, and keep doing that until it becomes a "new" learned behaviour. 

Be careful about Caroline's suggestion; she is in fact suggesting you undertake "exposure and response prevention " (ERP) which is fine, but it is a completely separate process to the "refocusing away"  I am initially advocating. 

It too is a powerful part of cognitive behavioural therapy but, for me, it has the best chance of success when we go into ERP in a strong mental and emotional state - so I would suggest you work on the refocusing away initially until you are feeling stronger. 

[taurean]

Just to add some clarity to the mix. 

The goal of CBT is to educate the patient in why they think and do what they do,and why it is happening. 

That the thoughts are the result of the disorder, are not our thoughts and say nothing about us as a person. 

It is the meaning given to the thoughts that causes the emotional distress. 

It follows then that if we can render the thoughts inert, recognise them as OCD thoughts and make them benign, then we won't apply the distressing meaning to them, we won't pay them attention, accordingly they will lose power and, instead of sticking around and repeating and causing disorder, they will  resolve away. 

[kaheath80]

It's hard though with something like this- because you can have a thought 'I want to hurt someone' and worry about it but you don't hurt anyone and maybe eventually the person will realise that. I have a thought 'I won't sleep' and it comes true. I realise it only comes true because I'm worrying about it, but still it is true.

[PolarBear]

So you keep telling yourself you won't sleep and you don't sleep. Maybe you should start telling yoursrlf you will sleep good.

[taurean]

It doesn't help to seek to compare severity in themes of OCD - they have variations in expression. 

Whatever the theme(s) from which people suffer, they will likely experience extreme distress. 

My doctor wanted to look back through my medical records to see when my OCD first manifest itself. 

I saved him the trouble and gave him a short potted history. Typically, OCD adds layers of "rules" onto an OCD "onion" - and the valuable thing to do is purely get stuck into identifying the layers, and gradually rendering each benign through CBT, until we have broken the OCD chains that have bound us. 

 

[taurean]

4 minutes ago, PolarBear said:

So you keep telling yourself you won't sleep and you don't sleep. Maybe you should start telling yoursrlf you will sleep good.

PB Sums it up nicely there.Give belief to a thought that you won't sleep and, surprise surprise, you won't sleep. 

Don't connect with the thought, don't give belief to it - and, like initially last night, you will sleep. 

 

[kaheath80]

Polar bear- fantastic idea! Worth a try...

Taurean- I have written my medical history already ? Ready for therapy. I think it came to about 6 pages!

[snowbear]

54 minutes ago, PolarBear said:

So you keep telling yourself you won't sleep and you don't sleep. Maybe you should start telling yoursrlf you will sleep good.

Or simply tell yourself it doesn't matter if you don't sleep. 

Then whether it comes true or not you can relax and let your mind drift - the result of which is you will typically fall asleep.  

Learning about sleep physiology is actually a hobby of mine. There's been a huge amount of research done in the last 20 years. And the interesting truth is it actually doesn't matter a great deal if you miss a night's sleep.

Of course you feel exhausted the next morning if you've lain awake worrying, but the physical exhaustion comes from using so much mental energy worrying, not from the lack of sleep itself.

Some morning grogginess is normal and reflects the biochemistry of our circadian rhythms (internal body clock.) Whether you've slept or not, mental focus is at a low ebb upon waking and picks up during the morning as you 'get going'. It continues to rise to a peak before falling again as the internal body clock approaches your normal bedtime. That rhythm continues unchanged whether you slept a full eight hours the night before or had no sleep at all. 

If you're worried about work performance or ability to cope emotionally after not sleeping, a helpful tip is to be sure to eat breakfast. Skipping breakfast prolongs the normal low energy ebb and poor mental focus (again that effect occurs regardless of how much sleep you've had.)  Protein or slow release carbohydrate works best as a boost to overcome this natural ebb, so savoury or porridge or toast, not sugary breakfast cereals. (Though a bowl of sugary cereal is still way better than a chocolate bar or not eating.)  

Relaxing your body and mind is equally effective as sleep in the short term (up to 3 days of no sleep at all.)

We do need to sleep eventually, but if that stage is reached you would keel over and sleep even if a sonic boom went off overhead - it's biologically impossible to resist sleep if you've been totally sleep deprived for more than 4 days. If you try, your brain will snatch 'micro-sleeps' (where it sleeps for 1-2 seconds at a time but you think you're still awake.) 

Mindfulness meditation is excellent at calming a busy mind. There are lots of videos to guide you through the technique (and body relaxation techniques) available on places like You Tube. 

So next time, tell yourself it doesn't matter if I don't sleep and aim to simply relax your muscles and meditate as an equally effective way to refresh yourself.  

Edited August 21, 2016 by snowbear

[kaheath80]

Wow that does sound like me...