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Still don't feel I know enough about ocd to overcome it


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polarbear,

Why are we told to say maybe I didn't maybe I didnt. Isn't this teaching us to not care if we do bad? Doesn't it suggest something can be Ocd AND bad? Why are we told so say things like 'I probably did so such and such'? 

Worrying whether something is ocd or not is rumination I know and I should put it in the realm if ocd. But it would make me feel so much better if I knew whether ocd could be real and bad but then I feel like I shouldn't be asking that and that I should say 'maybe, maybe not' and move on but then I feel totally horrific like 'omg, how can I identify ocd when I don't know what it is' and my life feels like it's well and truly been turned upside down. I am desperate to know what constitutes an ocd intrusive thought and whether they can ever be real and bad.
Is it that when questioning it I'm gonna be in an anxious, obsessive state and so no amount of rumination will make me feel better about it, therefore I should let go without answering AND that it's important that I read up on ocd to understand it because this will suggest greatly that ocd intrusive thoughts have 'little or no basis in reality?' 

 

there's always a but!!!! 'But u have done this, but u have done that'. Is it ocd tricking me? What is ocd? 
Maybe asking self can ocd be bad?! Is and because it's an ocd question, full of anxiety and fear therefore I'll never feel satisfied with the answer and will simply move on to another fear when this ones  'sorted'. Which is why, even tho ocd isn't bad, I should leave it? Because it's a question in an ocd obsessive manner? 
Maybe I need to calmly read about ocd and then I'll understand. I'll understand in a non obsessive way. But asking questions in this obsessive way is ocd and shouldn't be answered and should be left with 'maybe it is. Maybe it isn't. Move on'?

I know you're saying it's stupid to think and worry and not let go about anything when it's at the detriment of living a good life but this doesn't seem good enough. It makes me feel sick with fear because I absolutely don't want to let go of something bad. I understand even if it's not ocd I shouldn't be worrying to the extent I am, but i'd still like an idea of whether it's ocd. Not just think 'If it is, all well and good, and if it's not I should still just let it go anyway'. 
You shouldn't fixate but if it's not ocd u still need to be aware. I really don't think I can just say tell myself not to care whether it's ocd or not. But isn't this convincing yourself not to care- 'is it ocd? Maybe it is, maybe it isn't'. 

Are u telling me to let it go regardless of ocd or not? 
But surely if bad I might need to sort it. 
Are you saying even if bad you sort and let go so when it's all confused and anxious and doubting whether ocd that's def a point u can let go.

Are you saying 'under no circumstances are u letting go' meaning all the signs are there that it's ocd and u can let go and you're not. It's senseless to not try and let go. And when uncertain as to whether it's ocd is stupid to fixate on it rather than let go at the detriment of my health?

Are we being encouraged to not care what we say or do? Maybe I'm supposed to feel awful, like I'm letting go of bad things and have developed a who gives a **** attitude when although this seems awful, the truth is I won't be will soon see that if I concentrate on getting better. I won't really be letting go of bad. I'll be acting in an anti- obsessional way. And I'll be taking the risk as to whether I'm letting go of real bad or ocd rubbish. 
I still can't get over why an ocd article I read said 'acting in an anti obsessional way involves telling yourself you've done the things you fear and you have to really mean and believe it when you do'. Why??Ocd has kicked in on this hasn't it? But how is me worrying about this ocd? cos something was said.
Maybe he said 'mean' and meant you can't just say it, you have to really say it and accept it and let go. 

Maybe Ocd book are  telling me to let go of everything and not care simply because they know we'll not be letting go of anything real and bad but that we can't ever tell the difference so they have to tell us to let go of everything. And as we do it we'll learn more what ocd is all about. And also, they're saying it alongside explaining ocd and how it works to they're hoping we'll soon see the bigger picture?! 

If you're doing ocd compulsions does that mean that the thought is ocd too? Or can the fear be about something real and bad and not just a thought and the compulsions are ocd only? 

All in all I'm worried that not understanding ocd and not questioning certain things will lead to letting go of real things and I'm also really scared that in a way that's what I'm being told to do. And maybe it's that they know that'll hurt us at the beginning and then we'll come to realise we haven't let go of bad but we just weren't at a point where we could easily distinguish. 
I don't want it to be that I'm then convinced I need to actually let go of bad. 
Do ocd books trick us like this? Telling us to let go of EVERYTHING? Making us think we have to let go or true or false? Or do they explain to us more about why they tell us to do things and how it'll help us ? 

Is ocd always going to be 'no truth or very little basis in reality'? 

Why is it so important to not think about what's true and false? Are we being encouraged to let go of real bad things? Or is it more that we're explained to about what ocd is and does and based on this have to decide for outselces to take the risk and let go? Sufferers who don't understand ocd must be so scared and feel like they're just being told to let go of bad. That's not good is it? 

I don't wanna misunderstand ocd books, I don't wanna be being told to let go of bad. How can I let go and think maybe it is maybe it isn't about what books are telling me? How can I read them at face value?!

I always feel I'm Testing myself, to see whether I do or say bad. is it an intrusive thought or compulsion? I get petrified and confused about whether I'm saying bad, unsure or whether anyone heard or unsure of whether anyone was near by and whether if they heard it would be bad. It's like I test myself to see how dangerous I am. Is this ocd? If so, how?!?! Same with my fear of saying things accidentally. Is this ocd in any way?! In what way?? Please answer me here. 

They say intrusive thoughts won't be that bad- does saying something not sure if someone can hear or saying something knowing no one knows me class as 'no that bad' or would I be letting myself get away with saying bad!!! Sometimes I think 'it won't be that bad in that they won't know me etc'. But that's not ok!!!! (Maybe I know I haven't done that. Or know no one heard or what I said isn't that bad etc). I'm scared my morals are bad and that I'll tell myself things are ocd when they're not and I'll let things go that I shouldn't.

What if I say something accidentally and then fret and fret. Is that ocd? In that it might not be bad like I think it is? But then intrusive thoughts have next to no truth to them don't they. But I guess my thought will be 'is this really bad? Should I sort it out? Bla bla bla and its that that is the intrusive thought, right? Because I have so so many I actually find it difficult to know what the intrusive thought is because they occur so much.

Does ocd mean little or no basis in reality? Can ocd thoughts be real and bad? Is it def ocd intrusive thought if you do compulsions? Have I been wrong to base whether my thoughts are ocd thoughts if I'm ruminating?
I think u can get compulsions about real things but we know I have ocd so mine will always be nonsensical? 

its really scaring me because I feel I need to ready about ocd (once iv calmed down for a week or two) but I feel my ocd will hinder it massively in that iv become hugely obsessional about what is being said and what's meant and whether k understand correctly. How can I get the best out of learning ocd without being hindered by my obsessions? Example, they say 'do the thing you fear' and imso scared whetehr iv taken this to mean 'say bad about dad' and maybe that's why I test myself and say bad when things are ambiguous, to see if anyone heard or not!! :-( this makes me panic a lot. Is the testing ocd? How so? 

I am so sorry this is such a long message. I'm really going to try and shut down for a week or so in the hopes that I can get some of my confidence back in feeling able to tackle ocd. I want to get the book 'managing ocd with cbt for dummies' and have this be the ONlY thing I read so that I can't get all confused.

tips for not letting ocd doubts hinder my understanding and reading would be so greatly appreciated.

also, can I get better without a therapist? is it possible? I do completely understand that it's ultimately down to me and my determination and perseverance.

thanks so much 

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Don't spend too long trying to figure out if something is an OCD thought or not. There is no such thing. What you have are different ways of feeling about and responding to thoughts. How you feel about a thought will be skewed so you will have to resolve in advance to let go of a particular thought. You know what yours will be. For some people it will be 'did I lock the door'?, or 'are my hands clean'. All these people, regardless of their theme, will feel absolutely and categorically that they must urgently deal with their thought. By telling them to let go, it doesn't really mean that they shouldn't care about the consequences should their fear come true. It means that they shouldn't care about dealing with that thought right now, because although there is a small possibility that the fear may come true, it is tiny compared to the energy you are expending on trying to deal with that thought. Nobody would say you shouldn't care if you got burgled or if you got sick.

You need to understand that that at the time of resisting your compulsion to ruminate, you will not feel like letting go is the right decision. It will feel positively like the wrong decision. But it is the right decision. When you don't do your compulsions, the fear and panic will fade  

As an example, yesterday I was having a conversation with a friend. We were talking about another friend and I said something about the other friend that afterwards I thought might be misinterpreted by the friend and come across as mean if she ever found out. It wasn't meant to be mean in any way. Instant panic and rumination ensued, it felt absolutely urgently like I needed to try and figure out the probability of her finding out, and then misinterpreting, and it felt like if she did it would be absolute catastrophe. It genuinely felt catastrophic. However I know now NOT to indulge this, to accept that those things might happen and that I would cope if they did. And then nothing, strictly no ruminating. By this morning I feel completely different about it. The situation remains the same but the fear has gone and it all doesn't feel like a big deal at all. When you practice not ruminating you will learn how the same situation can feel completely different when there is fear and when there is no fear. You just need to be strict and let go even when it feels like you shouldn't. 

So when you are told you won't care, it's kind of true, but it doesn't really mean that you don't care. It means that it won't feel so urgent and catastrophic. It will feel like the level of caring you would feel about someone else's theme. 

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Megz, your long post was one big, written down rumination. You are way overthinking OCD recovery.  You've twisted yourself up in knots. Unfortunately, on top of your original theme, you now have a new theme to deal with and that is you are having intrusive thoughts and doing ruminating over how to recover from OCD.

I'm not going to answer the myriad of questions you've asked because they all come from compulsions and the answers won't satisfy you.

With this amount of ruminating over some fairly simple concepts, I think you need a qualified OCD therapist to set the ground rules and guide you.

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Ok thank you both. A lot. 

I wonder if maybe I understand more (about how to get better) than I think i do. Maybe it's the ocd telling me I don't understand what books are saying and maybe they mean this and that. Maybe I should be saying to myself 'maybe, maybe not'. What do u both think? Sometimes I find myself saying 'the book is lying. Ignore it', because I've misinterpreted what it's saying. How do u advise I go about understanding ocd without letting the doubts creep in about whether it's saying what I think it's saying. Can a book or an article on ocd ever be wrong? 

I also worry because although a lot of my fears are about whether I'm saying and implying bad about my dad, I also get some worries about whether I believe he's done bad, as in wrongly believe- I know if I was to believe he had it would be a wrote belief. But when my ocd about it gets reallllly bad I actually think sometime 'has he done bad?' And I watch his movement and things. Even though I know he wouldn't do bad!!! I think it's that I absolutely don't want any reason to really believe, say and imply that he's done bad- even though I don't! But I'm so scared that it'll be the case that it's not ocd if you're worrying about other people doing bad. Is this the case? But I know it's ocd. I know he's never done a thing wrong and I know that. I get fears about him because I never want a reason to actually believe, say or imply bad about him? I know it's ocd. It's just I never hear of people worrying about others words and actions and it petrifies me that you or a book will suggest it's therefore not ocd? Even tho they must be because he's never done a thing wrong. Can you respond to this? 

I want to ask myself 'what constitutes it being an ocd style intrusive thought and can't it ever be real and bad?' I know this is rumination and checking but at the same time it seems a valid question because it's about getting better. What do you think? the thoughts and compulsion happen so so often- all day at the moment that it's almost difficult to tell what the intrusive thought is at times.

I really, really do appreciate your help on this.

franklin12, have you been able to get yourself on the road to recovery without a therapist? 

 

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I think you do understand enough now to progress. You have recognised that your questions have now become reassurance seeking and checking. Remember that at the time of a trigger, you will be really scared and you will never feel as though it's OCD. There's no point waiting to know its OCD or trying to figure out that it is. You just roll your sleeves up and go for it.

Yes I got better without a therapist. I found this forum and it was all I needed after years feeling bad. It's very possible to do so long as you have a good bit of insight and are prepared for the fact that you will feel worse before you feel better (probably). I do sometimes get the odd spike but they're always swiftly dealt with now, they never last long, so I know that if I stand firm and refuse to engage at the outset when your brain is screaming 'deal with me! It's urgent!' then it will always feel better by morning.

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thank you. That post actually made me feel a lot better. I know In order to get better I need to learn that it will feel uncomfortable, painful really, like I'm totally out of control and letting bad go.

they say intrusive thoughts and the meanings we attach have little or no basis in reality. But can it be that sometimes there is a reality to it but it's so exaggerated it simply needs to be let go?

this afternoon I feared whether I said bad about dad to mum bcause I wanted to express all my ocd thoughts and confusion. I then panicked a lot because throughout the week I've had a lot of worries about whether I'm suggesting to my mum that I think dads done bad. So in my mind it feels absolutely crucial to know exactly what I've said this week. I try to think 'let it go. It won't be that bad, it'll be exaggerated' but then my mind goes off on one trying to work out what's bad and what isn't. 

If Ive said bad previously as well as said bad today, am I just supposed to think 'hopefully my previous words have no bearing on what iv just said' or what?! (Please answer this). 

Maybe I really shouldn't be going in to any of it? What's real, not real. What should and shouldn't be let go. It's all hindering me in getting better. Maybe it's as simple as 'ocd f*cks everything up. Anything that makes u anxious and sad to this degree is ocd'. U don't need to know why or how it's ocd, and why you should let go. You just simply need to let go. (???)

Maybe accepting uncertainty doesn't just refer to simple 'did I do this? Yes or not' it means ANY type of questioning and confusion that arrives with a serious amount of anxiety and upset and an absolute need to 'sort it out'. ?

I worry in particular about my morals and letting go because in the past I've expressed all sorts to my parents out of utter confusion, fear, upset, being consumed with ocd, where I have on occasion expressed that I'm getting doubts about dad and whether hes done wrong or/and whether I believe he's done wrong (explaining that I'm aware my brief would be wrong). The fact I've expressed this petrifies me and makes me feel absolutely awful and my parents just say 'we know it's the ocd. We know you know dads never done bad and that its just your ocd playing tricks on you so don't worry'.

so it's like I end up thinking is it ocd because I don't keep on saying and implying stuff to my parents and I just think I keep doing it OR is it that I say some things but only knowing full well they understand ocd and so my fear that mum will think I believe bad about dad is completely exaggerated. Which is why I ask, can it be ocd if there's truth but it's just a huge exaggeration? 

Is it a problem that sometimes I can't tell what the intrusive thought is and what the false meaning is? Ie. Is it 'Have I said bad?' and (false meaning) 'I've definitely said bad' OR 'i said.... How bad is that? And (false meaning) 'it's so bad. You need to sort it out now!'. Maybe it doesn't matter. Maybe it's as simple as tho whole topic/subject has to be put to rest because it's clear its ocd in some way and my thoughts can't be trusted?

i also get a lot of doubts about whether im saying or doing wrong accidentally, or to test myself when I feel the outcome is ambiguous (like I'm not sure who can hear me) etc and I don't know whether this is an intrusive thought or compulsion and I'm not sure how to look at it? Like I'm staying in a hotel room and I keep getting confused about what im/whether im muttering things about dad knowing there's a chance someone might hear but also thinking 'has someone heard? If someone Mexican, they won't understand. Other residents don't know me. So maybe I don't care? Maybe I'm saying stuff that's a bit ambiguous so it could suggest something bad and also something innocent.

what I wanna do is look over these situations. Assess them. But I know that'll do me no good. But is this ocd in some way?

One last thing. Checking. Is it bad because it keeps you tuned in to the thought, increases doubts and your need to check more and more BUT it is that things won't be bad like ocd is telling you.  Or is it that things may well be bad but no one without ocd checks so we shouldn't either?

i get that there's the point of 'if it was something bad you've have dealt with it there and then' BUT my mind is awful lately for thinking 'I might have previously let something to that was ok to let go but if said again or something similar said again, I'd need to 'sort it'. But maybe I have to thinking I really need to sort something it'll come back to me immediately without upset and anxiety but if I'm full of anxiety and upset and want to assess the past it can only end in tears cos I can't trust my mind when like this. (Please answer this- about this 'need' to be aware of previous things I've said in case it becomes relevant to sort something out now). 

please respond. I promise I will make a real effort not to write on here for the next few weeks/month and keep asking questions and actually 'roll my sleeves up' as you say and try throwing myself into managing ocd. Somethings got to give and I know it's up to me :-( I know I have to be strong and accept that I will be absolutely desperate and beside myself wanting to sort things out in my head but I have to be brave. In doing this there's actually a light at the end of the tunnel I guess. 

I'm on holiday and all I can think about is ocd. It's not right. Everyone else is enjoying themselves, totally care free and I am determined to reclaim my life and be like them!! 

Thank you so much. You have no idea how much I appreciate this 

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Oh megz. You just continue to ruminate and ruminate over your OCD. Your post above is one long, written down rumination. You keep going over things, trying to figure them out, trying to figure out what's OCD and what isn't. You've got to stop this. You've got to stop all this ruminating and trying to figure things out.

You have OCD. You get intrusive thoughts that cause you distress and lead to compulsions. Your big compulsion is ruminating -- trying to figure things out. Take a break from all this. Refuse to get into mind debates about what is OCD and what isn't. All these questions, all these long posts, are not doing you any good.

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So literally ANYTHING. Any question, any thought, any doubt has to be let go? So in a way, it really is simple, it's just very difficult? 

I'm just going to ask one question then but if it's ocd and u think it needs to be left alone then just tell me that. I'm desperate to know whether I can let go of things I've said to my mum? I know there have been times where iv expressed doubts about dad which to me is horrific. And I know there have been times where dad has said to me 'you are so moody today' and iv said 'it's your fault!', sort of testing myself to see whether it sounds like I'm saying 'my ocd is worrying about saying bad about you' or 'you've done wrong. That's why I'm sad'. And I've then said to mum 'I think I said its your fault to test myself...'. I only ask because this is stuff I HAVE said so in that way I'm unsure whether it's ocd. Although it feels like it's ocd in terms on the sheer amount of fear and anxiety and inability to let go of it. Please just answer that.

sometimes I just feel so dangerous because if I didn't have ocd no way would I have all these confused thoughts and ideas. 

I promise to take on both of your advise. If I try really really hard now, with you both be here for me? Sorry, I know that sounds ridiculous! 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, megz150 said:

I'm just going to ask one question then but if it's ocd and u think it needs to be left alone then just tell me that. I'm desperate to know whether I can let go of things I've said to my mum?

What do you think you should be done with the thought, based on what you now know about OCD? It's important you give YOURSELF permission to react to a thought a certain way. What a stranger on the internet allows you to do will carry little weight in the long run.

Edited by ohwhyhello
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It's OCD because you are fixated on what you say and what you think. You ruminate endlessly, trying to figure it all out, which does nothing but keep you stuck.

At this point you need to assume it's OCD and deal with it as OCD. Tell yourself you're not going to get into mind debates over your thoughts. Leave them alone. Refuse to get drawn into ruminating over whether something is OCD or not.

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Ok. I will do just that and see how I get on. Thank you! 

Asking myself what constitutes as ocd is just another set of questions then that need to be let go because it leads to rumination ? 

Edited by megz150
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I thought understanding what constitutes an ocd thought was actually me trying to understand ocd to get better but I guess it's not then? It's just another way of ruminating and getting caught up in the ocd, is that right? 

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Polar bear, 

i can't stop worrying that I test myself to see if ppl can hear me, if I'm implying bad or not. It's actually killing me. I'm in a really bad way. This can't be ocd because in ocd there isn't supposed to be a risk of danger. The danger is in your mind- all exaggerated. But here there is danger. We're told to 'take a risk' because we fee there is one but there isn't. But with all this, there is a big risk! I'm petrified. ;-( absolutely petrified 

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I'm meant to tell myself to 'accept uncertainty' and that the outcome wouldn't be catastrophic as I think and I can deal with it and I do believe that, but ocd nothing is supposed to need sorting or dealing with because the danger is supposed to be false. ;-(

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You're assuming the danger is real. From where I sit, given all your posts over quite a long time, I don't see anything real about the thoughts you are having. As you said, the danger is all in your mind, totally exaggerated. That's what's happening with you right now and has been for a long time.

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No Megz that's not quite right - the danger is not 'supposed to be false'. If it were black and white then everything would be certain. The reason people struggle is because they blow up a risk with a tiny probability to make it a huge probability. You can't waste your time and mental health worrying about everything with a tiny risk. But you have become fixated on just one of those things. You have to dismiss the risk in the same way that you dismiss the risk of a meteorite falling in your head. 

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Oh god, why does everything feel so awful. I cried earlier to my mum and she said 'don't be silly nothing's actually happened' and I don't know why, I said 'yes it has' and she said 'what then?' And I cried and said 'I don't want to say'. I am petrified. I just want to hurt myself. I hate myself. I don't know what to do, I'm a mess. All my fears about what I'm saying and implying and I go and say that?! What should I do??? :-( is everything as awful as it seems right now? I feel so low and all I want to do is cry and tell myparents how much I love them. We're out at a theatre production tonight and I have got to put a brave face on for them. Help me!

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3 minutes ago, megz150 said:

But what I wrote above isn't ocd is it? It's me, saying bad?

You're asking for reassurance. You quite consistently ask for reassurance. The answers aren't going to do you any good. They might give you temporary relief but soon enough the doubt will be back and you'll be back to wanting more reassurance.

This has to stop. You have OCD. Accept that and treat it as OCD.

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