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Are You Ready Ruminators? OK, Right - Then let's Get Helping You To Stop (Merged Topics)


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Ruminating is a serious compulsion and obsession plus compulsion leads to disorder. 

Why?  Because the urge to compulse creates the false impression of giving relief, finding answers. 

In fact, any "relief"  is only very temporary, leaving the obsessional core belief unchallenged and stronger. 

And ruminating, going over and over your obsessional issues, finds no conclusion - effectively it is as useless a way of seeking a solution as is worry. And it helps sets up a vicious cycle of distress. 

No more for now. 

No need to respond about ruminating on this post - save it for next Saturday. 

But do try and gain some knowledge and help and practical experience from the day next Saturday. 

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I did some reading back of old topics on the forum last night. 

The good news is that, mostly, the same solutions regularly come up when the how to stop ruminating topic gets raised, and the feedback on the benefits of using them is good.

I will share this information here at the weekend - so many of us waste hours of our lives ruminating about obsessions which themselves are actually irrelevant nonsense, but made so powerful and convincing by the distortions of this disorder. 

If we tackle the ruminating, we remove the fuel that keeps the fire of our unwanted negative obsessive intrusions alive. 

Watch this space at the end of the week for more information. 

 

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Guest ashipinharbor
Just now, taurean said:

So am I. The more ruminating we can ease our way from, the less power will have our compulsions, and the less disorder will be the result. 

I agree!

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Doing a little occasional work in preparation for the day has shown up some 10-11 concepts that really help the understanding of, and tackling, rumination. 

I shall carry on occasionally formatting a piece to post for the day, encompassing this in an easy to understand, easy to work from style. 

Hopefully there will be a big payback in terms of help for everyone struggling with understanding of how to face up to their obsessions, tackle the urge to ruminate, and overcome this. 

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I'd say that everyone who joins our forum has a desire to overcome their OCD. 

But we can't do that if we ruminate - we solve nothing, we waste hours of our lives - we simply strengthen our connection with the erroneous core beliefs that the disorder targets to create and maintain an obsessional response. 

It's why I am devoting some, but actually not a great deal of (because that would be bad for me myself) time to this this week, in the hope that for some of us the realisation that we are actually hindering not helping by ruminating may happen. 

We need to 

Understand how the disorder works 

How connecting with it and its compulsive urges is the food that feeds it and makes it stronger. 

How ruminating is a key element of that. 

How to stop ruminating. 

 

Watch this space as we build towards Saturday. 

Edited by taurean
typo
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4 hours ago, taurean said:

I'd say that everyone who joins our forum has a desire to overcome their OCD. 

Most do, perhaps 99% join because they want advice, tips, help or comfort from being around others fighting their OCD.   

But sadly over the years we have had one or two users who actually did nothing to fight their OCD, partly because they have so much invested in OCD.  That's fine, that's their choice, but what used to offend me was they would use their warped view to be negative about OCD treatment and would often pour cold water on positive threads.

 

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Well we want this issue to be a positive one. I have combined completing my piece on our collective ideas to stop ruminating  with occasional need to chat with the men who are continuing my garden renovation work down below - the sound of the petrol-driven power washer is breaking though the double glazing as I write this . 

I plan to upload the document, and launch help to stop ruminating day , on Friday evening - giving the OCD-UK members in the members-only chat room the opportunity to discuss it, and the bulletin board members the opportunity to give it some thought prior to Saturday itself.

I am going to re-post my simplistic overview of  the cognitive side of OCD shortly, so that new members can read it before Saturday 

 

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Not long to go now until I launch things with my piece on the best methods as suggested by previous threads on the support forum. 

This is a great opportunity to share our experiences of rumination and our difficulties and successes in tackling it. 

It's also a great opportunity to make a commitment to reducing rumination a key goal in your recovery. 

 

 

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Introduction

 

It’s here at last – I have been building up to this weekend for a few days now. Before we tackle the ruminating, let’s just remind ourselves of what this disorder is all about.

N.b. all ideas I express are my own views as a sufferer of this disease and based on personal experience, therapy I have received or about which I have read, or the advised experience of others.

We start to obsess about something. That obsession becomes focused, and will be based around fear, revulsion or threat. That fear revulsion or threat forms an unwanted irrational emotional core belief , which it targets and evokes an anxiety or distress response. And the urge to carry out compulsive rituals, physical or mental, in the mistaken belief that this will make things better.

For more information on how this works, in a simple format, see my topic  “Don’t forget the cognitive side” re-posted to the forum again this week

 

Ruminating

 

Ruminating is the OCD version of worry. Worry is going around and around something on your mind without ever finding a resolution.

The compulsive urge in OCD tells us that ruminating is good, it will help you find an answer to your obsession. This, like many elements of thinking in OCD, is nothing but an out and out falsehood. Ruminating will dig you deeper holes to fall into, slide you down more snakes; all the time connecting you more and more with that erroneous core belief, and the bad emotions generated from it. 

Whilst ruminating, you encourage more intrusions, and the negative experience  becomes a vicious cycle of  anxiety and distress.

Ruminating is – with thanks here to PolarBear and Wikipedia – “the compulsively focused attention on the symptoms of one’s distress, and on its possible causes and consequences, as opposed to its solutions.

Well that last bit really sums it up – there is no solution to be found by ruminating !

 

OCD-UK’S Forums

 

These wonderful forums, paid for by the gloriously-helpful and informative charity OCD-UK, have seen lots of requests for help in stopping ruminating. I and many others have raised topics.

I took a look through the “back catalogue” of topics to see what information was conjured up previously, and to marry that up with my own current thinking and codify on this document, and then upload into  this thread what I think are the best ideas that will help people.

Not surprisingly the same ideas kept coming up, and proving effective – that’s good; it means there isn’t a massive amount of information to get our minds around. And as usual with OCD, the theory begins to look quite simple – but it is the putting it into practice that is so much more difficult.

 

The Methods That We Have Been Using

 

I am not going to present these in any kind of preferred order. Why? Because that would only be my view, and what matters is the view of each and every individual one of us, looking to use the tools. 

So let’s get going.

 

1. Giving Space To the Obsession

Remember, in treatment we must not engage with the obsessive intrusion, or try and neutralise it with an opposing thought, or try and force it away. These actions will strengthen the intrusion and encourage more to occur.

But instead of these, we can deploy a method taken from Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (ACT) whereby, instead of fighting the thought, we give space to it.  Worried John said “But which works most for me is just watching the OCD thought and waiting for it to disappear if I don’t interact with it. If I react with it in any way it just sticks with me.”

Let’s open our mind up in quiet contemplation to this intrusion -  give it some space instead. OCD tries to focus onto it, let’s allow it freedom but not fight it – and after a while we can focus out from it gradually, so it takes its place again within the collective of our thinking, and loses its prominence.

 

2. Mindfulness

Go for some professional CBT treatment now, and the more recently qualified clinical psychologists are very likely to roll this practice out to you.

All our obsessing and compulsing takes part in what my therapist explained to me as the active “doing” part of the brain, where we both carry out normal activities, but also come across problems and seek solutions. Problems include our obsessional thinking, and the seeking solutions is what our compulsions do.

But there is another part of our thinking processes that she told me takes place in the just “being” part of the brain. This part just operates in the present, and purely in the current moment. The past is not considered, its gone, finished; the future may be planned for, but is not for current consideration.

When we find a portal that takes us into mindfulness – in the “just being” part of the brain  and we learn to stay in that mental zone, obsessions and compulsions fade into the background.

 

3. Resistance And Refocusing

In tackling ruminating, resistance is NOT futile!  When we find ourselves ruminating, we need to calmly note that, and gently return our thinking to where we want it to be. And we keep doing that, keep gently bringing it back where we want it to be. We don’t give in to the compulsive urge to ruminate.

 

4.The “Stop Loss” Method/Appointment Methods

We need to get tough with ourselves to do this – remember, when the going gets tough, the tough get going.

Let’s decide exactly how much time we are prepared to lose to rumination – give it a little rope.  But after that, determine to give no more – at least for the time being.

We can set ourselves a time for rumination -  maybe say, not now I am at work, I’ll ruminate at 19.00 hrs. with a bit of luck and a fair wind, we might be too busy at 19.00 hrs to ruminate.

Hal said that he might acknowledge an intrusion with the mental thinking “oh, here we go again, OCD up to its usual tricks – but I am not going to deal with this now.” He slips the intrusion into a mental box he calls his “rubbish thoughts” box, and only allows a small amount of time later on to review its latest contents.  

 

5. Live In Day-time Compartments

Large ships are compartmentalised with watertight bulkheads in between. So if a leak occurs in one compartment, it can be quickly sealed to protect the rest of the ship.

So, imagine 3 compartments – the past, the present and the future, throw the (mental) switch that closes the bulkheads shutting out the past and the future – just operate in the “present” compartment.

 

6. Other Forms Of Helpful Compartmentalisation

When I was working I became very adept at compartmentalising. I left my home-life behind when I turned the key in the lock of the front door: I then shifted into “travelling” mode, an opportunity to slip my mind into stasis and just enjoy the views and activity around me.

Entering the office or approaching a client’s premises, my mind would switch into “work” mode.

Lunch break was another “time out” and I would go for a walk – in the walk I would get mindful – observing, but not engaging with, things.

Locking my desk and leaving the office in the evening meant I entered the “travelling” mode again. Finally, approaching home I would switch attention to “home” mode.

 

7. Closeness To Others

Our disorder loves to marginalise us, cut us off from others, give us time to ruminate,

So getting in touch with others helps overcome this – and if we make sure we associate with happy, cheerful others, that philosophy can rub off onto us.

 

8. Setting Up New Neural Pathways

We can help ourselves to do this using a technique from Snowbear called “positive emotion generation”. In OCD our core belief gets targeted with the bad emotions of fear, hate, anger and the like. And our brain goes down well-trodden neural pathways to keep these thoughts and emotions  alive.

But if we leave those neural pathways be, and open up new thinking, new happy neural pathways, we can leave the old ones to wither in disuse, and our new ones to blossom.

Let’s look at what we use to entertain ourselves – might we be happier watching light-hearted programmes, listening to jazz or country or classical music, following talk radio channels like radio 4 or LBC. Reading enjoyable happy books, especially before we go to bed.

Let’s exercise some control in what we experience and what we think, where it can be beneficial to us.

 

9. Defusion Methods

These are beneficial and can also be great fun. It is a key part of Acceptance and Commitment Therapy, and I think works quite well for OCD.

Defusions and metaphors are to be found within the forum back catalogue via the search screen, but here is one.

Imagine you are the driver of a bus, and all the passengers are intrusions. They start to play up, jostling each other and quite an annoying din wells up.

You speak to them over the tannoy, and say to them that, unless they quieten down and sit in their seats, all the rowdy ones will be ejected from the bus at the next stop !

 

10. Distraction

Get busy – really fill up your time with beneficial involved activities - and you should  gradually find the urge to ruminate weakens and slips away.

Now we would all like to hear:

Your views on these methods

Your own experiences with seeking to curtail rumination

Any other ideas

Let us all work together and make this initiative a resounding success. 

 

Roy 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Firstly great post Roy and Thankyou for taking the time to set this up to hopefully help us all. So a big 

I've spent years and years ruminating every minute of every day, in a silent lonely life filled with turmoil and pain, somehow lost in me with my own thoughts, my mind taken over always working backwards by my intrusive thoughts and then also predicting the future of what could happen. 

This was until I started cbt and erp around a year ago this is how I have put into practice how to stop myself ruminating. With the enormous help of my psychologist he taught me a new way of thinking, he changed the way I perceived things and what meanings these intrusive thoughts had and how they affected me. 

I began to realise it didn't matter if I spent every hour of every day going over these thoughts that it wouldn't change a thing what's gone is gone and what is done is done so to speak you can never get the answer your searching for. I also found myself predicting the future what if I have, what if I did, what will happen, who will take care of my daughter etc, etc. I started to remind myself I've been living my life constantly in the past on rewind and on all the what ifs. Things at got to change. 

Most days now I can go without ruminating at all  or very little but it takes lots of practice. 

You have to stand firm and not give the thought the time of day, it's there but your not giving it any attention and learn to live with that uncertainty, like so what if I did attitude, I can't do anything about it it's done, it's gone it's in the past I can't change a thing. 

Hope this helps 

lost

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It's a great explanation of letting go, not letting the thoughts run our lives, and I think it may inspire other people lost. 

You really did get into the casual "so what"  way of thinking, and this takes away the base upon which the ruminating sits. 

Thank you. 

Incidentally, this also shows in practice what my own therapist said to me - Roy, turn your what ifs into what is. Accept things for what they are, in the here and now. 

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Yes I think you have to get in the frame of mind so what if way of thinking. 

Its not a so what if I don't care, it's a so what if I can't change a thing it's done it's gone. Hope that makes sense? 

3 minutes ago, taurean said:

It's a great explanation of letting go, not letting the thoughts run our lives, and I think it may inspire other people lost. 

You really did get into the casual "so what"  way of thinking, and this takes away the base upon which the ruminating sits. 

Thank you. 

Incidentally, this also shows in practice what my own therapist said to me - Roy, turn your what ifs into what is. Accept things for what they are, in the here and now. 

I think your therapist is right:

eg: I'm sewing my trousers say, i put my needle down not paying attention where I put it, whilst i get the iron to press the hem and check it's right, I sit back down to do the next leg but I can't  find my needle I'm sure I left it there, but I wasn't paying attention at the time because it wasn't important, could I  have put it back in the box, doubting myself, wham intrusive thought I've swallowed it I must have done I remember holding it in my mouth whilst I was cutting the thread. My Reaction sheer panic dread, anxiety sky high, ruminating over what I had just done but I can't remember,  trying to find the needle but I can't, I can't remember they all look the same, catastrophe I'm going to die who will look after my daughter etc. Ruminating all the time but never getting the answer how could I there wasn't one. 

ok now same situation, can't find my needle, same intrusive thought, well the fact is I'm not sure where I put it I could have put it in the box I can't be sure, or if swallowed it, I did I can't change it there is nothing I can do, what is done is gone, learn to live with the uncertainty of the not knowing. 

So all the worrying in the world isnt going to change anything, it's still going to be the same outcome, the never knowing for sure and living with the uncertainty. 

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Wow that really is putting the therapy into practice. 

Now lots of us fall for that catastrophic thinking in OCD and it gets going into forming a vicious circle of distress very quickly if we let it. 

But your method spokes the wheel, and tackles the uncertainty. 

As I said earlier, often the solution may be simplistic, but it's the making it happen that is still a big mountain to climb. 

It's good that you are beginning to find again what you have lost for so long. 

I hope Saz may read this thread, as her OCD leads her quickly into this same catastrophic thinking you mention, it connects her back to her false memory and she gets drawn into  ruminating. 

Maybe saddaniels will also read it and gain some helpful intuition too. 

Edited by taurean
typo
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It would be nice to think this could help everyone, but what works for one doesn't always work for another.

 What I'm trying to say is this: 

We can spend hours ruminating over a thought, torturing ourselves, being anxious and getting depressed searching for an answer or trying to solve it, to try to find reassurance and never finding any of it. 

So why spend hours ruminating over something we can't change because the outcome is always going to be the same no matter what we do.

So we have to learn to live with the uncertainty and what ifs. 

Hope this makes sense 

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Hal's way is good too - putting the desire to ruminate into a box and only allowing it a little time only later before he closes the box again. 

(I have been working with Snowbear on something similar for keeping previous triggers in a bad memories box, but haven't got far with it). 

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Looking forward to this. I'm slowly beginning to accept that ruminating gets me nowhere. It just leaves me more confused/anxiety/consumed with guilt &I fear. Currently my rumination is fixated on exposure therapy & it's really bad because I have all this "evidence" coming from past things my therapist has said, confusion about habituation, confusion of how long you are supposed to stay exposed, etc.

its really scary to let go of, but I know I'll eventually have to in order to progress in my recovery.

 

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2 hours ago, lostinme said:

Yes I think you have to get in the frame of mind so what if way of thinking. 

Its not a so what if I don't care, it's a so what if I can't change a thing it's done it's gone. Hope that makes sense? 

I think your therapist is right:

eg: I'm sewing my trousers say, i put my needle down not paying attention where I put it, whilst i get the iron to press the hem and check it's right, I sit back down to do the next leg but I can't  find my needle I'm sure I left it there, but I wasn't paying attention at the time because it wasn't important, could I  have put it back in the box, doubting myself, wham intrusive thought I've swallowed it I must have done I remember holding it in my mouth whilst I was cutting the thread. My Reaction sheer panic dread, anxiety sky high, ruminating over what I had just done but I can't remember,  trying to find the needle but I can't, I can't remember they all look the same, catastrophe I'm going to die who will look after my daughter etc. Ruminating all the time but never getting the answer how could I there wasn't one. 

ok now same situation, can't find my needle, same intrusive thought, well the fact is I'm not sure where I put it I could have put it in the box I can't be sure, or if swallowed it, I did I can't change it there is nothing I can do, what is done is gone, learn to live with the uncertainty of the not knowing. 

So all the worrying in the world isnt going to change anything, it's still going to be the same outcome, the never knowing for sure and living with the uncertainty. 

Great stuff!

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What we have to remember is ruminating is a evil part of our OCD. A intrusive thought pops into our minds and maybe takes up all of a couple of seconds of our brain power. 

But our ruminating can go on for hours and hours even days and some times longer and what we need to remember is it's all useless, all that brain work does absolutely no good. It just causes us more destress. 

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