Cleaning my teeth

[kaheath80]

When I was younger this was one of my rules. I once read that you should wait half an hour after eating before cleaning your teeth so I'd drive my parents mad making them wait half an hour then clean my teeth and then we could leave the house finally.

I try and stick to that now but I'm not hugely obsessive about having to be half an hour. 

As long as I can remember I have counted when cleaning my teeth as I read how long you have to clean them for. I stopped that when I got an electric toothbrush as it counts for you then vibrates so you know when to stop.

However in the morning I clean my teeth with my electric toothbrush, then I use mouthwash and count 30 seconds, then I use a manual toothbrush and count for 30 seconds, then I brush my tongue with it for 30 seconds, then I use an interdental toothbrush to get into the gaps (no counting here). I tried to tell the dentist but lied slightly as she seemed to think it odd that I do so many things.

I also feel the need to clean my teeth every time I leave the house. So if I go out and come back then go out again I'll have to use the manual toothbrush for 30 seconds each time. I don't like going out thinking my teeth aren't clean.

However I'm fine at work. I eat and then go back to work and I don't have a need to clean my teeth.

So is this all normal, or could it be OCD? This is a genuine question. I don't know if I should be resisting any of it or if it sounds like a normal teeth-cleaning routine.

Edited February 26, 2017 by kaheath80

[lostinme]

It sounds very much like a compulsion kaheath.

The recommended dental care, is to brush your teeth twice a day, morning and night.

You should be able to brush your teeth and tongue and then simply rinse and go. 

Really you need to stop the counting this sounds like a compulsion.

 Hope this helps you?

[kaheath80]

2 minutes ago, lostinme said:

It sounds very much like a compulsion kaheath.

The recommended dental care, is to brush your teeth twice a day, morning and night.

You should be able to brush your teeth and tongue and then simply rinse and go. 

Really you need to stop the counting this sounds like a compulsion.

 Hope this helps you?

Thanks very much! I have the same problem that I have with all my counting/timing- which is how do I know I've cleaned them for long enough if I don't count? I'm really unable to get my head around this simple thing. I don't know why.

[lostinme]

You've just answered it yourself kaheath with your last post, that it is obvious it causes you anxiety.

29 minutes ago, kaheath80 said:

 have the same problem that I have with all my counting/timing- which is how do I know I've cleaned them for long enough if I don't count? I'm really unable to get my head around this simple thing. I don't know why.

You need to work on the lowest anxiety provoking compulsion and reduce what your doing whether you cut your counting down to twenty seconds first and then after say a week of doing this, reduce it to say fifteen seconds and so on. 

It will make your anxiety rise at first but then it will reduce the more you do it. 

You need to keep chipping away at it bit by bit, I can now brush my teeth normally, I floss, use an electric tooth brush for two minutes and brush my tongue for maybe a few seconds not counting ,then rinse and go. 

It took me  a while to do this, but now I can do it without it bothering me and it's so much nicer, I used to dread brushing my teeth and at times I'd avoid cleaning them. 

Hope this helps you kaheath ?

 

[PolarBear]

I don't know whether this is an OCD compulsion or some kind of rigid thinking linked to your BPD. You have inherited or dreamed up rules as to how to live and you rigidly follow them, even though most people don't do such things. They all seem to be generated from fear. You brush your teeth so much because you fear them not being clean. You have sex once a week because you fear being abandoned. You weigh yourself three times a day because you fear getting fat.

I hope you are sharing this stuff with your therapist.

[kaheath80]

Thanks both.

PB, yes I am talking to my therapist about my rules. But I'm worried now that you think I don't have OCD! The rules are OCD aren't they? They are compulsions.

Forgot to say I also floss.

[lostinme]

Im not sure what to say kaheath I guess you've been diagnosed with OCD?

 Best way to explain is brushing my teeth was a big fear for me that caused me anxiety, panic and dread. That's why some days I couldn't even face doing it.

I had a lot of compulsions having to do it in a certain way and a certain number of times including counting for part of it, if I did it wrong it would cause me sheer panic and dread that something bad would happen. 

How does it affect you? 

[kaheath80]

I have been diagnosed with OCD but one of my symptoms is getting into panics that I don't have it and I get triggered by small remarks. I think I should maybe stay away from the forum until this has passed as I am currently terrified and unable to reply logically to questions.

Thanks for your help though, I appreciate it.

[lostinme]

Oh bless you kaheath, I'm so sorry I hope I haven't upset you in any way, that's the last thing I wanted to do. 

I was hoping to help you solve your worry, not to make you feel worse

 

[kaheath80]

No you haven't don't worry! It was Polar bear's comment that scared me. And I'm not cross with PB or anything I'm just scared! I thought all my rules were OCD but I go through worries that they're not.

[lostinme]

Oh bless you kaheath i do feel for you it is a terrible disorder

 I just wanted to share my similar experience regarding this and never wanted to cause you more distress

 

[kaheath80]

Hey, you haven't done a thing wrong!

I just get so confused. Some people tell me my timing and planning issues are OCD, then someone suggests it's BPD, and when I google rules and OCD all I get is stuff about OCPD. How am I supposed to know what is causing it?

I get anxious when I don't do the timing and planning and if I don't do the right amount, so surely that means it's likely to be OCD?

[lostinme]

Yes it sounds that way, but it's difficult to say if the BPD is part of it too, I'm afraid I don't know enough about this.

I wouldn't get upset with what PB wrote, Ive read polarbears message and I think what he is trying to say is he doesn't know which one causes you fear and what causes these behaviours that's why he hopes you are speaking to your therapist so you can see what you need to work on. 

I think quite often we all forget that all the people here are sufferers and volunteers of sufferers themselves, who try to offer support and advice to anyone who is struggling. They are not qualified health workers so can't give  us a diagnosis to what the cause may be. They can only offer us  help and support?

[kaheath80]

I totally understand PB wasn't trying to make me panic.

I've never heard of BPD causing compulsions. I wonder if maybe the BPD does make me have rigid thinking but obsessing over the rules is OCD.

I know people say it doesn't matter what causes certain symptoms. But how can I in all conscience go to an OCD support group and talk about timing and planning being my biggest OCD problems if I'm not sure that OCD is causing them?

[lostinme]

No I'm sure he wasn't. 

Yes I totally understand what you are saying but I don't understand BPD to well only your therapist is qualified to tell you what you need to know. I think it's best for you to speak to them regarding your concerns and hopefully they will be able to help you understand whether it is your OCD or your BPD that is the problem and causing you concern. 

Hopefully when you understand which one is causing you your problems you might be able to start working through them.

Best wishes kaheath I hope you manage to get the answers you seek 

[PolarBear]

Hey kaheath. Sorry if my post sent you in a tizzy.

This while BPD thing is the elephant in the room. I simply do not know how it affects/relates to your OCD. I do not understand BPD enough to know how it would interact with OCD.

There are three things I look at when trying to decide if we're talking OCD or not. First, is there identifiable obsessions? That means, are there intrusive thoughts that pop into your head without you wanting them to be there?

Second, do the obsessions cause distress? Third, does that distress lead you to do compulsions.

Only you can answer if those three factors are in play. 

There is a sort of other kind of OCD where the person doesn't necessarily feel distress but would feel a lot of it if they didn't do their compulsions

 That may be where you are. You get in a routine with your rules and everything is relatively fine but not following the rules would cause you a lot of anxiety. Do you feel you fit into that scenario?

[kaheath80]

8 minutes ago, PolarBear said:

Hey kaheath. Sorry if my post sent you in a tizzy.

This while BPD thing is the elephant in the room. I simply do not know how it affects/relates to your OCD. I do not understand BPD enough to know how it would interact with OCD.

There are three things I look at when trying to decide if we're talking OCD or not. First, is there identifiable obsessions? That means, are there intrusive thoughts that pop into your head without you wanting them to be there?

Second, do the obsessions cause distress? Third, does that distress lead you to do compulsions.

Only you can answer if those three factors are in play. 

There is a sort of other kind of OCD where the person doesn't necessarily feel distress but would feel a lot of it if they didn't do their compulsions

 That may be where you are. You get in a routine with your rules and everything is relatively fine but not following the rules would cause you a lot of anxiety. Do you feel you fit into that scenario?

That's ok. I'm having a very bad day. 

I know you didn't mean to worry me.

Yes I think that latter scenario applies to me. Not having sex once a week or not doing my full amount of exercise or walking all panic me, if someone tries to stop me I get very anxious. 

I do have obsessions, about getting fat or breaking up with my wife etc. But I don't get them and think I need to do something to stop them, it's more the other way round. If I don't do the compulsions I fear the obsessions. 

Can that still be OCD?

[kaheath80]

Also, I think my obsession is with perfectionism. I think I'm not perfect if I don't match these rules. Doesn't that sound a bit like my just right OCD stuff too, that I have to do things to make myself feel right?

[kaheath80]

I've spent so long trying to work out whether this is OCD or not and I'm still no further along and still in a complete panic.

[PolarBear]

Yeah, it does sound like OCD. I'm not saying you don't have OCD. I am saying that your BPD might be adding a layer of complexity to your OCD. From what I understand, people with BPD very much look at the world in a black and white way; there is no gray areas. That would strengthen the problem with you having to follow these rules you come up with.

[kaheath80]

Thanks. I think I have a big problem here. And please note I'm not blaming you. But now I have doubt about whether the rules are OCD. And I'm thinking of not going back to the OCD support group because I'm worried that I can't talk about my OCD rules if I'm not sure they are OCD. I feel I need to know with 100% certainty that they are OCD. I can't live with the uncertainty. 

[kaheath80]

I looked back over all my posts dating back to when I joined the forum looking for reassurance in people's answers to me and what I had written to see if it sounded like OCD. I'm still not convinced.

[PolarBear]

Ah, well therein lies the core challenge of OCD: uncertainty. People with OCD hate uncertainty but there is uncertainty everywhere you look. So what are you going to do? Sit there and ruminate over whether you have OCD or not endlessly? Because that, paradoxically, would be a clear sign of OCD at work.

[PolarBear]

Just now, kaheath80 said:

I looked back over all my posts dating back to when I joined the forum looking for reassurance in people's answers to me and what I had written to see if it sounded like OCD. I'm still not convinced.

Reassurance seeking: another OCD compulsion.

[kaheath80]

2 minutes ago, PolarBear said:

Ah, well therein lies the core challenge of OCD: uncertainty. People with OCD hate uncertainty but there is uncertainty everywhere you look. So what are you going to do? Sit there and ruminate over whether you have OCD or not endlessly? Because that, paradoxically, would be a clear sign of OCD at work.

But how can I go to the support group and say 'my OCD is all about rules' if I'm not completely certain that's what it is? That's like someone who isn't sure they have cancer going to a cancer support group and saying 'I have these symptoms but maybe they're not cancer, I'm not sure'.