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Can someone tell me what this is please?


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14 hours ago, Saz said:

As you can imagine this triggered me a lot. 

I can BUT you should be prepared for those triggers, recognise that first flash of anxiety BUT then instead of rolling off down that well-trodden track, realise what has triggered the anxiety and then change how you handle it.  If you get into the compulsions, the thinking about it, the going over it, you will feel awful.  If you recognise that this is just a response to a trigger (that you train yourself to recognise) and "refuse" to get into any further debate with it but move on, that flash of anxiety can be gone in 10 minutes or so.  It's only the examination of things that maintains the anxiety.

As I've said before, imagine someone visiting the zoo, there's a huge sign on a cage which says "DON'T FEED THE LIONS, They will bite" So the woman breaks off a piece of her burger, puts her hand through the bars and the lion snaps up the food and bites her in the process.  She breaks off another piece and again puts her hand through the bars, the lion bites her again, more savagely this time.

The moral of the story is the same, if you keep doing the same things despite the dangers, the warnings others give you about the dangers of a course of action....you WILL get bitten, and it will bite EVERY time.  The same is true of OCD and trying to control it by using compulsions.

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Morning.

So I'm a few chapters in to Pulling the Trigger. It's tricky finding the time to read it to be honest, even at night, but I'm managing a chapter a night. I like the style in which it's written with Adam telling his story and then Lauren giving her expert take on what's happening. Ive found me relating a fair bit to things that both Adam and Lauren have said. Up to now though there has been no talk by Lauren of false memories when she has spoke about different OCD fears. She has done bullet points and given examples but none talk about what someone fears they HAVE done already. I haven't read the whole book so maybe it's talked about later on but I'm not sure. I just thought it would have been mentioned in the early examples given. Obviously I am trying not to let this worry me, but naturally it is, and my mind is thinking all kinds as to why my kind of fear/worry isn't mentioned - the fear of already having done something. I apologise if it's talked about later on. I just wanted to check in with you and let you know how I'm getting on.

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Don't make the mistake of using the book to look for certainty, as a form of reassurance.  Any single thought, doubt, issue, variation is possible to become an OCD worry.  Given the number of thoughts it is possible for a human being to experience, it is impossible to create a book to list or refer to them all individually.  Use the book as an example and apply it to your own situation. 

If I were to look at Adams situation and had to choose, I would say that on the face of it his was far more restrictive and yet he recovered.  Give yourself a chance and keep pulling the trigger.

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Yes I understand Caramoole. I'm trying like you said to not use it a reassurance. I think I'm just thinking that in such a book it would be used as an example, it's kind of knocks my confidence in trying to take that leap of faith. The other part that troubled me is the part were lauren says about people being afraid to seek help due to being afraid that their kids will be taken away. She goes on to say that although very rare it has happened. Im sorry I seem to be talking about the 'negatives' here.

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Hi Saz,

I felt similar to this when I read "Break Free from OCD" (and many of the other books I bought when I was trying to get to the bottom of things).  I couldn't find anything in there which discussed False Memory and that upset me at first because I needed that reassurance to take the leap.  False Memory is really just a flashy name for an intrusive thought- one that gets stuck and that you desperately try to "work out" or "prove false" by trying to remember.  I can't remember where I first heard the term False Memory- it describes what I feel so well but it's not use by professionals who tend to just say it's a bad or intrusive thought.  When I was really ill I could turn anything in my imagination into something that felt so real.  I could reach back 20 years to when I was a teenager and imagine that I had done all kinds of horrible things to other kids (it felt so real)- I had no proof that I had; but I also had no proof that I hadn't and that made it hard to let go.  Now,  when I recognise that I am falling into the trap I just don't engage with it.

I was rock bottom three years ago Saz.  There's hope I promise you.

Binx

 

Edited by Binxy
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1 hour ago, Binxy said:

Hi Saz,

I felt similar to this when I read "Break Free from OCD" (and many of the other books I bought when I was trying to get to the bottom of things).  I couldn't find anything in there which discussed False Memory and that upset me at first because I needed that reassurance to take the leap.  False Memory is really just a flashy name for an intrusive thought- one that gets stuck and that you desperately try to "work out" or "prove false" by trying to remember.  I can't remember where I first heard the term False Memory- it describes what I feel so well but it's not use by professionals who tend to just say it's a bad or intrusive thought.  When I was really ill I could turn anything in my imagination into something that felt so real.  I could reach back 20 years to when I was a teenager and imagine that I had done all kinds of horrible things to other kids (it felt so real)- I had no proof that I had; but I also had no proof that I hadn't and that made it hard to let go.  Now,  when I recognise that I am falling into the trap I just don't engage with it.

I was rock bottom three years ago Saz.  There's hope I promise you.

Binx

 

It's funny isn't it binx how it's not really mentioned in these books. I am not slating the book I'm reading or anything by the way, as it's written really well and it's quite simple to read and obviously I feel terrible what poor Adam went through. It's just hard not to focus on the points I mentioned above. Also there is a bit where Lauren gets Adam to put his hands round her neck to prove that he won't strangle her or anyone  (this is his main fear) and that's a great way for him to get some clarity on the situation(although im sure this mad him very anxious)...For me and people with memory problems, there isn't really a way we can get some sort of clarity like Adam could because it's a different thing making us anxious. I'm continuing to read the book  though.

So glad you feel better binx.

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Be careful with this-  Adam's exercise was not done in order to give him clarity.  It was done to show him that he can cope with the associated anxiety and with time habituate to the fact that he has the thought but it doesn't mean anything.  This is where it's similar to the memory thing- we're not going to get clarity, it's not possible. The equivalent exercise for us would be to learn to handle the anxiety we get when we have the thought or we are triggered- the anxiety will come but it doesn't mean anything.  Does that make sense?

Edited by Binxy
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5 minutes ago, Binxy said:

The equivalent exercise for us would be to learn to handle the anxiety we get when we have the thought or we are triggered- the anxiety will come but it doesn't mean anything.

:yes: ....and we have to resist using methods in an attempt to avoid or push the anxiety away.

False memories of having done something are not unusual.  I remember in one of the OCD documentaries there was a lady who had a false fear/memory that she may have killed (multiple) people as she walked down the street and disposed of them in a wheelie bin.  She had seen the person on the street and then they disappeared so she must have killed them and got rid of them.  She would endlessly try and remember where they where, what her thoughts had been, what she'd done with them and start checking in bins etc and trying to find proof to either prove or disprove her fears.  Sounds pretty daft, doesn't it?  It wasn't for her, it just might have been real

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The updated version of "Brainlock" I am reading gives an example of a man who, every time he went out in his car, was convinced when returning home that he had hit someone. 

He felt compelled to drive back down the route looking for a body, notwithstanding he had seen and felt nothing, and there was no evidence on the exterior of the car. 

In therapy he engaged with the therapist, learned to see the thoughts feelings and urges as error messages from OCD, and was able to gradually erode and eliminate the compulsions. 

When occasionally the intrusion occurs he simply labels it OCD and gently eases it away. 

This latter is at the heart of the goal of CBT for OCD. 

Whilst there are various common themes of OCD, and within those similarities between cases, there are also many variations.

My main OCD theme is harm, and there are very many different of expressions of that. 

But it's all OCD, works the same underlying way, and through working with therapy and being prepared to believe what we are told, we have the capability to reach the position of not connecting with any remaining residual thoughts images and feelings, seeing them for the OCD that they are, and gently easing them away and refocusing back to where we want to be. 

Edited by taurean
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2 hours ago, Caramoole said:

:yes: ....and we have to resist using methods in an attempt to avoid or push the anxiety away.

False memories of having done something are not unusual.  I remember in one of the OCD documentaries there was a lady who had a false fear/memory that she may have killed (multiple) people as she walked down the street and disposed of them in a wheelie bin.  She had seen the person on the street and then they disappeared so she must have killed them and got rid of them.  She would endlessly try and remember where they where, what her thoughts had been, what she'd done with them and start checking in bins etc and trying to find proof to either prove or disprove her fears.  Sounds pretty daft, doesn't it?  It wasn't for her, it just might have been real

Hi caramoole, I'm gonna come right out and say it - that does sound pretty daft! Of course not to her, she must have been beside herself with worry! See though mine seems much more plausible (if that's the right word), a one off terrible act while under the influence, a horrendous crime and the person too young to say anything. Mine doesnt seem daft. I know I shouldn't compare...Please don't tell me off. The amount of anxiety this provokes when I write things like that down is unreal.

Edited by Saz
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I think examples of false memory are given very frequently in literature on OCD - they may not use the term 'false memory' (which is a bit of a misnomer anyway, some might argue) but they do describe them.  

Did I kill someone? Did I sexually abuse someone? Did I touch something dirty and then spread a disease? Did I contract AIDS? These are all examples of 'false memory' - or an intrusive thought about the past, which is exactly what you have.  

Just because your exact scenario isn't described doesn't mean you should suddenly leap to the conclusion 'oh my god I don't have OCD! It must be real!'

As Caramoole says, this suggests you are reading the book looking for reassurance that you do actually have OCD.

The ways you look for reassurance can be subtle and you obviously don't realise you are doing it but you must be on the lookout for this.  You must not read your book hoping it will provide you with the clarity, certainty, reassurance you so desperately crave.  It will not and can not.  You must stop looking for it.  We keep banging this drum and you probably think we sound like a broken record - but you really, really, really cannot have certainty.  Ever.  You say on the one hand you understand this but on the other hand you constantly look for it. 

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4 minutes ago, Saz said:

that does sound pretty daft! See though mine seems much more plausible

See - this is exactly where you're wrong.  Your scenario does not seem any more plausible.  To you, maybe it does.  But this lady will have given herself dozens of reasons why her scenario was entirely plausible.  Maybe she thought her cup of tea might have been spiked by her husband that morning.  Maybe she'd been having headaches and she thought she had a brain tumour causing sudden personality changes.  Maybe she read an article about people having memory blanks.  Maybe she'd seen an article about a murder and the CCTV image looked like her.  Maybe she had flashing images and memories which she pieced together over hours of rumination, putting two and two together and getting five.  Maybe she'd been drinking.  

It's very easy to build up a catalogue of 'plausible evidence' that to others seems utterly daft but to the person in question seems weighty evidence indeed.  At the end of the day the only thing that is true is that there has been an intrusive thought.  Everything else is just speculation.  There is no evidence of anything, either for you or for her. 

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My great little book on CBT, with an incisive few pages on OCD, makes it clear that sufferers need to accept probability instead of the certainty that their OCD makes them demand. 

The fundamental facts about OCD of which I and other learned colleagues regularly remind people have that at the top of the list, seconded by - it's not about the theme or manifestation, it's all about how the disorder works, whatever the theme or manifestation. 

We don't have to have a book on OCD false memory, contamination, health, relationship, sexual pretence, because they are all simply manifestations of the same mental illness - whose method of working is the same whatever. 

So :

Probability 

and 

It's the same disorder working the same way, whatever the theme or manifestation 

are my recommendations for sufferers to take to heart.

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Sorry I've not replied to your posts.

Ive read most of the book now and perhaps I am reading it wrong but it's not helping me. It talks about this exercise called 'on the one hand'. I do not know how I'm supposed to relate to that at all. An example would be if your going to give a presentation in work, you are worried on one hand that you might make a mistake but on the other hand you won't and even if you do nobody will notice  so you shouldn't  worry. I don't get it and I feel defeated. I've spent the whole day in my pyjamas. All the other examples are for things happening in the future and it says do your own exercise  to see if your worry comes true, write it down. This is where I'm stuck

Edited by Saz
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I mean to say that my partner took the kids out and that's how I've not got dressed or gone out. Everything is getting to me, crying again. Can relate to one thing in the book - its caused me depression - whatever this is

Edited by Saz
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Were you hoping, deep down, that the book would tell you how to know if you sexually abused a child or not? Did you want to know how to get the answer and you were hoping the book would tell you how to get it?

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No I wasn't at all polar bear! I just don't see how the book is any different to the advice that you have all given and was surprised to see no mention of any kind of 'false memory' or fears of that nature in the book. I'm not saying it should say my exact fear either. 

I'm at the absolute end of my rope with all of this.  

I would like this thread deleted please, it's causing immense anxiety and added upset. Seriously please delete the thread. I'm doing this on my own, I have too.

Edited by Saz
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I don't think your request for thread deletion will be complied with. 

You are blocking our attempts at getting you on the road to recovery. The best advice in the world has already been given to you. You need to do the hard work necessary to recover.

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Saz.....I'm sorry but I'm not going to delete the thread because I think it would be for all the wrong reasons.....I.e an attempt to control the anxious feelings.  If it is causing you distress the simple solution is to not (do the compulsion) and keep reading (checking) it, a compulsion.

Just caught up with the thread and your pm, will have a think and reply tomorrow

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Saz I'm sorry you're still feeling so low. You say that you are disappointed because the book doesn't give any more information than the advice you have been given by people on the forum. That's because the people on the forum who have given you advice over the years have read the books, have had the therapy, and have implemented that advice and have got better. Even people who have had the same theme as you. They say that the advice works. At some point you have to stop questioning the advice, and get your head down, follow the advice you have been given and see what happens. I would love to see you get through this and in a year's time be back on here telling your story to other people who are struggling and helping to persuade them that recovery is possible.

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I think the problem here is all the labelling of different themes of OCD. At the end of the day OCD is OCD. When someone asks how it effects me I don't list my many themes I just say I get intrusive thoughts that feel real, self doubt that I've done something wrong, fears of doing something wrong and it causes debilitating anxiety. I check, ruminate, avoid doing things, make check lists to give self reassurance etc etc. All to try and get rid of doubt and get rid/prevent anxiety. Until I came on this forum a few months ago I'd never heard of 'false memory' but it's just a fancy, I'd say misleading, term for doubting you have done something wrong.

Saz I'm 47 and lived with OCD since I was 19, diagnosed at 27. I've been married and divorced and have 2 children. My kids are now at university and I live alone. When I was first diagnosed I'd never heard of CBT and all I got for years was endless useless Councilling through the NHS. I was a single parent from when my kids were 7 and 6, I also have a physical disability. I don't know how but I survived and battled through. My kids got support from local Young Carers and did have to help me out a lot especially as I avoided many everyday tasks. When university raised its head I had to bite the bullet and was referred for CBT so I could live independently and so the kids wouldn't worry. The kids took a tough love approach. I still battle OCD everyday, I had a crisis end of last year, things are tough at the moment but I'm battling through and not letting the lier win. My daughter says I'm strong. I'm so proud of my kids, daughter graduates this year as a Physiotherapist and got married last year (stress of wedding caused my crisis and OCD was lier again my fears and doubts were not true), my son is training to be a teacher. 

What I'm trying to say Saz, you have OCD. Whatever the theme,  your doubts and fears it's the OCD at work and no one will take your children away. I've lost years of a happier life because of OCD. If CBT had been offered when diagnosed my life would have hopefully been better as it would have been addressed sooner instead I've had years of the disorder growing and getting worse. Saz please go to your GP and get help, get referred for CBT. 

 

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I woke up in the night and decided to catch up on the sports news on my smartphone. 

Unexpectedly, amongst the tennis news was a word which my OCD decided was a trigger, so evoked a trigger reaction and an anxiety arousal response. 

But I deployed the same strategy as I remember seeing Caramoole advise to Saz on this thread - I saw how the disorder was interpreting the word to make it a trigger in line with my OCD theme; I noted that, then turned my attention to something else and kept my focus elsewhere - result, that unwanted arousal that had kicked in gradually reduced and faded away. 

When we give attention to the meaning OCD gives to a trigger, or its attempted connection to another thought or trigger (trigger association)  then obsess and compulse about it - we strengthen it. 

When we treat the intrusion as I did, we take away its power.

There is nothing more complex to the treatment process than that, whatever the theme in which the OCD is expressed, whatever the connections, and to what, it seeks to make links. 

Essentially this is what all of us must do. The concept is simple once we have the belief and determination to do it. 

 

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I don't know Saz,I think you are in an endless loop here... I think a lot of us went through this, rumination, I mean. You ruminate and ruminate and it never stops, really, if you let it be and continue ruminating. When it happens to me usually it lasts three days. But in the past lasted me two weeks, months, years. I don't miss it, really.

Think about the word "cigarette". Then repeat it 100 times in your head. Then think about it, does it have any meaning anymore?

The more we ruminate, the more the uncertainty grows, and the worry, anxiety, depression, rumination it's just a pit in which you slide deeper and deeper unless you find the courage to stop, regardless of any consequences. There's no end to it, really, the pit has no end. You could choose to spend your days diving deeper and deeper into the pit, or you could just, slowly, climb your way upwards.

The good thing is, you can always stop and start climbing up :)

I'll send you a PM with a video on false memory.

Edited by chaosed
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