daveuk Posted April 26, 2017 Share Posted April 26, 2017 Why are OCD thoughts so powerful I am doing ok then next thought comes into my mind and it's sticking their telling me not to do that if I did things will go so wrong why it feels like thier. Someone in my mind talking to me is this OCD or what sometimes I feel great then if I wear the wrong things or type something wrong wrong it's like my thoughts control my body sometimes I get so scared if I go against my OCD I scared the thought will reply in my mind over and over Link to comment
paradoxer Posted April 26, 2017 Share Posted April 26, 2017 'Why are OCD thoughts so powerful (?)' Misfiring brain. Link to comment
daveuk Posted April 26, 2017 Author Share Posted April 26, 2017 Yeah sometimes it's hard to say no to the thoughts Link to comment
snowbear Posted April 26, 2017 Share Posted April 26, 2017 1 hour ago, paradoxer said: 'Why are OCD thoughts so powerful (?)' Misfiring brain. I disagree. Even if you believe the thoughts are generated by a misfiring brain (and I could argue a strong case against that theory), thoughts are powerful because of the meaning that is attached to them. The meaning people give their OCD thoughts typically reflects their core values or deepest fears and therein lies the power. Change the meaning to 'it's just a thought, it means nothing, it says nothing about me' and the thought loses the power to cause anxiety. The urge to fix the perceived problem vanishes because there no longer is a problem. Link to comment
daveuk Posted April 26, 2017 Author Share Posted April 26, 2017 So if I have OCD thoughts let them run and do not think on them what I worry Is the thoughts stay in my mind it's like their person in my mind chatting to me but that my OCD right Link to comment
snowbear Posted April 26, 2017 Share Posted April 26, 2017 Your thoughts are you chatting to yourself. Nothing more. It's not 'OCD' or something external happening to you when you get that annoying voice in your head. It's you, voicing your own ideas, worries and passing notions to yourself. Your thoughts are your mind asking itself what you think about this or that, considering possibilities, examining and discarding ideas. If you pay attention to them they stick around. Ignore them and they fade away. Tell yourself they mean something important and they'll pester you endlessly. Accept they are just 'brain fluff' which mean nothing unless you decide they mean something and they stop pestering you. The rules you believe OCD is demanding you follow is you setting rules for yourself based on what you think the rules should be. There's nothing to be scared of when you go against your OCD. All you're actually doing is deciding the rules you previously set for yourself on how things should be done now need to be changed. And you're free to do that, without fear of repercussions, any time you like. Telling yourself 'it's my OCD' suggests OCD is a living monster that's able to control you like a puppet. That isn't helpful. Once you understand it's just your own brain throwing up ideas for you to accept or dismiss (without caring which you do) then the anxiety disappears even when the thoughts themselves are bizarre, demanding, or threatening. Link to comment
daveuk Posted April 27, 2017 Author Share Posted April 27, 2017 I just gone against my OCD and I feel so worried I pick up extra shift at work but my thoughts says no don't do it but I picked it up Link to comment
paradoxer Posted April 27, 2017 Share Posted April 27, 2017 9 hours ago, snowbear said: I disagree. Even if you believe the thoughts are generated by a misfiring brain (and I could argue a strong case against that theory), thoughts are powerful because of the meaning that is attached to them. The meaning people give their OCD thoughts typically reflects their core values or deepest fears and therein lies the power. Change the meaning to 'it's just a thought, it means nothing, it says nothing about me' and the thought loses the power to cause anxiety. The urge to fix the perceived problem vanishes because there no longer is a problem. I'm well aware of the cognitive factor - how important the perception of the thoughts is in tackling the disorder. But in many instances - the variety of obsessions is so varied, so random, the gamut so wide, so inane (in many cases striking not a thread of anxiety at other times), or is seen as no longer relevant soon after, that to focus unduly on perception alone - to hold that 'core beliefs' have a given relevance is off the mark. It's apparent to this observer that invariably OCD 'fear' isn't a fear of the perceived obsession per se, but the fear of the fear - a simulcrum. OCD has many contributors. 'Ordinary' thoughts rarely, if ever, cause so much pain, anxiety, (what I suggest is often actually 'faux') guilt. - the solution is indeed in the response (or lack of) but the facsimile of relevance that OCD throws up is so overwhelming - 'so more so' - to suggest that brain chemistry, or a 'misfiring brain', isn't at least in part a factor, is, I believe, misguided. Link to comment
snowbear Posted April 27, 2017 Share Posted April 27, 2017 3 hours ago, paradoxer said: to suggest that brain chemistry, or a 'misfiring brain', isn't at least in part a factor, is, I believe, misguided. I'm not saying a 'misfiring brain' isn't involved in part. There's evidence to show brain chemistry in specific areas and irregular connection of certain neural pathways are found in people with OCD, however these are reversible. What's more, the physical changes in brain chemistry and anatomy are reversible with CBT intervention alone. Since changing the way you think and behave can correct the misfiring, it suggests the chemical and anatomical changes are the result of the distorted thinking processes involved in OCD rather than the cause. The problem with telling people they have a 'misfiring brain' is it fosters the belief that the response to intrusive thoughts is not under voluntary control. When someone believes they are the victim of brain machinery (rather than reacting with a learned behavioural response) they are much more likely to give in to compulsions, especially if the early stages of therapy and regaining control proves difficult. 3 hours ago, paradoxer said: to hold that 'core beliefs' have a given relevance is off the mark. We shall have to agree to differ on this point. I'm willing to go so far as to claim it is fact that a core belief lies at the root of every OCD obsession. If you uncover the core belief (and don't get misled by the arbitrary beliefs people hold as a result of their day-to-day thoughts ) you'll find some sense of unworthiness, being undeserving or being unlovable at the root of the emotional response, be that guilt, fear, or shame. Hyper-responsibility, perfectionism, scrupulosity, cleanliness etc all stem from core beliefs with words like 'should' and 'ought' in them. eg. 'The world 'should' work this way', 'I have to (ought to) prevent any harm' ... 3 hours ago, paradoxer said: OCD 'fear' isn't a fear of the perceived obsession per se, but the fear of the fear the facsimile of relevance that OCD throws up is so overwhelming I'm not sure what you mean by 'fascimile of relevance'. If you mean OCD can mimic any concern, latch onto any imaginable theme then you're correct. Your observation there is often fear of 'the OCD fear' demonstrates the irrelevance of theme content, but does not change the fact that fear, or the fear of fear, is the result of concluding something valued is under threat. And it is our core beliefs which determine what we value. Link to comment
snowbear Posted April 27, 2017 Share Posted April 27, 2017 4 hours ago, daveuk said: I just gone against my OCD and I feel so worried I pick up extra shift at work but my thoughts says no don't do it but I picked it up Well done, Dave! Dismiss those worries as they arise and keep going against what the thoughts tell you. It feels strange going against the thoughts at first, but the more you do it the easier it gets. Link to comment
daveuk Posted April 27, 2017 Author Share Posted April 27, 2017 5 hours ago, snowbear said: Well done, Dave! Dismiss those worries as they arise and keep going against what the thoughts tell you. It feels strange going against the thoughts at first, but the more you do it the easier it gets. Hi yes I been going against my thoughts but every time I win one thought one more pops up over and over again like now I feel rude in saying this but if I think of masturbation and I do it I get thought saying don't do thoughts like your dirty for doing masturbation And if I do extra shifts and the money I work hard for is now mine thoughts like I masturbation some times but then I feel bad for doing it and my OCD overloads I am sorry to put this information on to you Link to comment
paradoxer Posted April 27, 2017 Share Posted April 27, 2017 (edited) 11 hours ago, snowbear said: I'm not saying a 'misfiring brain' isn't involved in part. There's evidence to show brain chemistry in specific areas and irregular connection of certain neural pathways are found in people with OCD, however these are reversible. What's more, the physical changes in brain chemistry and anatomy are reversible with CBT intervention alone. Since changing the way you think and behave can correct the misfiring, it suggests the chemical and anatomical changes are the result of the distorted thinking processes involved in OCD rather than the cause. The problem with telling people they have a 'misfiring brain' is it fosters the belief that the response to intrusive thoughts is not under voluntary control. When someone believes they are the victim of brain machinery (rather than reacting with a learned behavioural response) they are much more likely to give in to compulsions, especially if the early stages of therapy and regaining control proves difficult. We shall have to agree to differ on this point. I'm willing to go so far as to claim it is fact that a core belief lies at the root of every OCD obsession. If you uncover the core belief (and don't get misled by the arbitrary beliefs people hold as a result of their day-to-day thoughts ) you'll find some sense of unworthiness, being undeserving or being unlovable at the root of the emotional response, be that guilt, fear, or shame. Hyper-responsibility, perfectionism, scrupulosity, cleanliness etc all stem from core beliefs with words like 'should' and 'ought' in them. eg. 'The world 'should' work this way', 'I have to (ought to) prevent any harm' ... I'm not sure what you mean by 'fascimile of relevance'. If you mean OCD can mimic any concern, latch onto any imaginable theme then you're correct. Your observation there is often fear of 'the OCD fear' demonstrates the irrelevance of theme content, but does not change the fact that fear, or the fear of fear, is the result of concluding something valued is under threat. And it is our core beliefs which determine what we value. Well, we may have to agree in part and disagree in other parts. Absolutely, I concur that the OCD pathways can be changed through CBT. I've long maintained that yielding to OCD only does the reverse, makes those 'grooves' all the more entrenched. In pointing out that OCD is due to a 'misfiring brain' I'm pre-supposing that the OP understands that they have ultimate control, and reminding them that the obsessions are irrelevant. Re the 'fascimile' reference - the brain sends a signal suggesting that an obsession is relevant. That signal is false. Finally, and this is where we may disagree - to suggest that core beliefs are always pertinent gives too much 'logic' to the disorder. Edited April 27, 2017 by paradoxer Link to comment
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