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Living with uncertainty


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This is the key isnt it, its living our daily lives with uncertainty and accepting that not knowing is ok. but in reality like the disorder its such a horrendous thing to live with. after something as simple of knowing your sexuality for me, is destined to be something i will never be able to say yes 'this is who i am'. Its horrendous as it seems such a simple thing to know. i'm sure people who fear leaving the door unlocked also feel this way, something so simple leaves them in absolute torment about whether theyve left the door open or not.

Its the simplicity and stupidity of it all. am i stup[id for not being able to work out something that is so inherent and obvious to some people. why is it so important to me? why can't i just leave it alone and stop thinking!!

 

grrr....

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I also wonder if you ever get to a point where the things that spike your OCD cease to be important to you. It's not the uncertainty as such - because we all deal with uncertainty fine in other areas of our lives. It's surely the actual subject matter that's the problem. As much as there is the whole 'it's all OCD and regardless of theme it all gets treated the same', that only works to a certain extent, i.e. On the 'OCD' part of the problem - knowing how not to get in a thought loop. I don't see how the cognitive side can change what you think. My themes were always about guilt - so whilst I have learned how to not fight guilt, how not to ruminate, etc. I still feel guilty about things really easily. I can see other people not feeling guilty and I can say to myself there is no need for me to feel guilty etc. But it doesn't make me not feel guilty next time. Knowing or believing something to be a particular way just doesn't seem to beat however you feel about something. 

My advice to you would be to not spend too long at this point wondering why this feels so important to you. Just get a grip on the basic tools that you need to not have OCD about it.

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11 minutes ago, Franklin12 said:

 I don't see how the cognitive side can change what you think.  My themes were always about guilt - so whilst I have learned how to not fight guilt, how not to ruminate, etc. I still feel guilty about things really easily.

Sounds to me as though you're applying the behavioural techniques but not addressing the core belief that generates the guilt in response to certain thoughts. 

The cognitive side is all about changing your thinking! :)  Identifying and challenging your core beliefs so your 'natural' response to the thoughts changes. Instead of focusing on what you feel guilty about and trying to convince yourself you don't need to feel guilty, ask yourself why you feel guilty. Why not angry, or even happy? What criteria are you using to judge yourself that creates a sense of guilt as the outcome? Are they valid criteria or something you subconsciously adopted in response to earlier life events? 

Often there's an unrealistic core belief lurking at the root of the automatic guilt response. A belief such as 'I have to/ought to/must/should....' and then because it's impossible (for any human) to achieve whatever criteria you set yourself, you feel guilt. Your core belief sets you up for failure before you start. Adjusting the belief to a more realistic, achievable, rational version of reality gives you a new set of criteria to judge yourself by and allows for the possibility of feeling differently about any possible outcome.

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Thanks Snowbear - that's just it though, I am totally see the logic in why I shouldn't feel as guilty as I do - it's like I KNOW the guilt feeling is inappropriate and I don't BELIEVE I should feel that way, but I still FEEL the guilt even though I know it's illogical. I just can't seem to ever out-logic the feeling. 

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35 minutes ago, Franklin12 said:

 I just can't seem to ever out-logic the feeling. 

I don't think trying to out-logic the feeling works. Because it is a compulsion in itself according to my opinion. Does working cognitive side means trying to outlogic your OCD belief? Let's see what experts think.

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No I don't think it does work. That's what confuses me about the cognitive side. When I try to tell myself things that go against what I believe, I know I'm lying. And ironically that's one of my big things - I absolutely can't stand lying and dishonesty, even subtle things like flattery. So it's like I've trapped myself and I can't fake it til I make it because my internal lie detector is going off like crazy!

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I know, right? Uncertainty is just awful and I'm always overthinking things over, wondering if there's something else I can do, wondering, 'Is this right, can I DEFINITELY do this, does it feel wrong, it feels wrong, can I do this, I wish someone could tell me this is definitely okay.' It feels like you're living between the lines and it's just terrible sometimes, which is why we then turn the circle and try to find an answer, the certainty.

I guess in times like this we can tell ourselves that it's not us, it's the OCD, if it feels like OCD, then it is and the thoughts are not real and they are not us.

C x

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3 hours ago, Franklin12 said:

When I try to tell myself things that go against what I believe, I know I'm lying.

Ok, but there's a reason why you're telling yourself things that go against what you believe, isn't there? 

Because the things you believe have been hurting you, causing anxiety and distress and making life unbearable.

Doesn't that suggest maybe your beliefs aren't compatible with the real world and need reviewed? :unsure: Are they based on a childhood ideal where everything is black and white, where 'should's and 'ought's happily apply because there is one strict set of rules about right and wrong? If that is so, I imagine life for you is rarely how it 'ought' to be and you regularly feel disappointed, frustrated and angered by a corrupt world which seems to be full of despicable liars. :( 

Knowing your beliefs cause such pain why do you still stand by them? Why not change your beliefs to something more compatible with living a happy and productive life, with being a forgiving, loving, tolerant and wise human being? :) 

The cognitive side is about looking at your beliefs and values and asking yourself, 'Are these working for me? Are they helping me to become the person I want to be, to live my life the way I'd like?' :unsure:  If the answer is no, then you need to consider the possibility your beliefs are flawed, based on values that were maybe true at one point in your past, but that no longer hold true now or simply aren't applicable to every occasion in the rigid way you've been applying them. 

For example, as children we are taught lying is bad, flattery is artificial. As we grow up we (hopefully) adjust that belief and come to understand that some lies are worse than others, that it's a spectrum of good and bad often without absolutes. We also learn that flattery can sometimes be an expression of acceptance of someone's flaws and a desire to make them feel good about themselves even if what is said is not literally true.

As adults we understand not everything has to be interpreted literally and it doesn't make it bad or false or dishonest as a result of making these kind of compromises. But if our core beliefs haven't caught up with this rational, adult thinking there's a mismatch of thoughts and feelings and that's why it feels as if you're lying to yourself.

What you're actually doing is telling yourself a different but valid truth which arises naturally out of holding a different set of values and beliefs.  You're developing a more useful way of viewing the world which allows you to flourish in it instead of fighting it and floundering. 

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Snowbear, I think we might have a bit of an ideological disagreement here. An (what I would consider) inordinate focus on 'core beliefs' seems to actually (in part) facilitate OCD. In many cases obsessions will morph and fluctuate. What tore the sufferer apart before is unimportant now. And sometimes what's held as unimportant, returns - presenting apparent relevance. Have the sufferer's basic beliefs suddenly changed? Unlikely. Some of the instances you give - black and white thinking, shoulds, oughts etc - are not necessarily the overriding factor in OCD sufferers (who are often intellectually well aware of the inanity of the compulsions) . While they may invariably pertain to the disorder, as a given, they might be more applicable to OCPD. 

 

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