Mental health a money maker!

[Wonderer]

I know that private therapists need to charge to make a wage but what I've noticed is that the prices vary so much, I've seen some start at a modest £30 a session but then it can vary right up to £90 a session! I done a lot of searching when I was really bad and the more expensive therapists, rarely had any extra qualifications so to me they are exploiting people's misery for extortionate pay. I also see many online self help courses u can buy which are so expensive and I'm thinking seriously? I was guilty of buying a self help course online last year but got it on sale and at a discount but it wasn't even worth what I paid! Then u have all the usual rubbish online "we can cure your OCD!" And the linden method etc, which costs a lot and isn't even proven to work at all but when people are in a vulnerable place they'll try anything! I know the NHS is annoying in terms of waiting times, but how lucky are we really? Makes me sad to see people taking advantage of others when they need help the most! Just a rant lol xx

[PhilM]

I suppose the other side of the coin is that private therapists may have to rent office space, have admin costs or secretarial expenses etc. but I agree with you. Where I live if you search online some of the fees seem very greedy.....like £100+ for a 50 minute session.

[Wonderer]

10 minutes ago, PhilM said:

I suppose the other side of the coin is that private therapists may have to rent office space, have admin costs or secretarial expenses etc. but I agree with you. Where I live if you search online some of the fees seem very greedy.....like £100+ for a 50 minute session.

Yeah I was definitely thinking they obviously have expenses but they variation in prices is beyond a joke! I emailed one who was working at £60 a session, seemed really professional etc, they said they could take me that week but then he was going to Spain for 6wks and we could pick up when he got back, when I said no thanks I'd need regular therapy, he was like, I could ring u or skype u but he was still expecting the same pay, I still declined the offer and yet I got another email explaining how the therapy would be just as good as face to face etc and really tried to sell it to me, I felt under pressure and it felt like a dodgy sales pitch lol, the desperation for the money!!! X

[PhilM]

Plus it's a growth industry with more and more "mental health conditions" being "created" by the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders though some "conditions" (I'm using the word very carefully here) such as being gay have been removed.

The manual began in the early 50s with 106 disorders and 130 pages. The most recent edition has 900+ pages and almost 300 conditions!

[PhilM]

Sorry for going off on a non-OCD related tangent.

[Wonderer]

8 minutes ago, PhilM said:

Plus it's a growth industry with more and more "mental health conditions" being "created" by the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders though some "conditions" (I'm using the word very carefully here) such as being gay have been removed.

The manual began in the early 50s with 106 disorders and 130 pages. The most recent edition has 900+ pages and almost 300 conditions!

Wow!!! Such an increase! That must be very exciting for private therapists lol, they can claim to specialise in soooo much more now! Seriously that is an incredible increase! Do u think it's more to do with medical recognition of more disorders or do u think there's more to it than that? Xx

[Wonderer]

7 minutes ago, Jessie_Loz said:

Good question hun and since when did mental health come at a cost? Ive noticed people charging for there experience of OCD to help others. Mark Freeman is a youtuber who charges people to help with there OCD and im like seriously! I dont think anyone should charge if its just there experience unless your qualified. If you want to help and share your experience do a nice thing and do it for free. I know i wouldnt charge anyone if they ask questions or ask about my experience.

Thats just my opinion though ?

Xxx

Omg yes 100% how can someone charge for their experience? the experience alone is enough for me to be willing to help others where and when I can for free lol! I don't even know if it would be legal to charge for advice if u didn't have the qualifications to back it up, but who knows!xx

[Ashley]

43 minutes ago, Wonderer said:

they variation in prices is beyond a joke!

But it's like anything in life you get what you pay for I guess.  Yes, you can get generic CBT therapists for £40-£60 a session, they may be able to help you but there is no guarantee they will be skilled in treating OCD (and won't be specialists in OCD).  A specialist may charge £120-150 per session which seems a lot, but often they can cut through all thoughts and get to the nub of it in much shorter timeframe, so in the long run may be cheaper if you only need 10-15 sessions with them but might need 6+ months of therapy with the cheaper therapists, so in the total overall cost those cheaper therapists might cost more.  Of course, no guarantees in any of that, point I am making is that cheaper therapists may be false economy. 

 

[Ashley]

6 minutes ago, Wonderer said:

Omg yes 100% how can someone charge for their experience?

I don't have a problem with a therapist working privately, provided:

1 - They're qualified.

2 - They work ethically in helping patients quickly and discharge when appropriate.

3 - They haven't used the NHS for their training and then ditched the NHS without putting something back.

I do have a big problem with some of these OCD clinics/centres often run by ex-sufferers that charges thousands for a weeks intensive, or like the Speakmans/Linden. In my experience, those people don't have relevant qualifications, have no experience of working at clinical level and sometimes there may not be any registered body to turn to if it all goes wrong.

 

[Wonderer]

29 minutes ago, Ashley said:

But it's like anything in life you get what you pay for I guess.  Yes, you can get generic CBT therapists for £40-£60 a session, they may be able to help you but there is no guarantee they will be skilled in treating OCD (and won't be specialists in OCD).  A specialist may charge £120-150 per session which seems a lot, but often they can cut through all thoughts and get to the nub of it in much shorter timeframe, so in the long run may be cheaper if you only need 10-15 sessions with them but might need 6+ months of therapy with the cheaper therapists, so in the total overall cost those cheaper therapists might cost more.  Of course, no guarantees in any of that, point I am making is that cheaper therapists may be false economy. 

 

Yeah I see what ur saying, but I definitely think there are just some chancers out there, I saw quite a lot of them that weren't "BABCP" accredited who were claiming to specialise in certain areas including OCD, so I was wary of that. Thanks to the charity I knew what to look for. Yes there no protection if it goes wrong if there's no registered body to turn to!x

[Ashley]

9 minutes ago, Wonderer said:

but I definitely think there are just some chancers out there

Without question, although I think most are genuine.  The problem is anybody can call themselves a therapist. 

[Wonderer]

That's true, I wish I had more faith in humanity lol x

[chaosed]

Mark Freeman has a lot of free content on his youtube channel, and he always found time to answer all my questions I put in the comment section of his videos. And his content is extremely useful, in my opinion. The price he asks for his online course is very little, compared to the info you get - for me it would be two CBT sessions' worth. He dedicates a big part of his life helping people overcome OCD, and a man gotta eat. Of course there is no reason to ask for money if you help people in your free time, but if you help people full time, where else could you get money from?  Plus, he states very clearly that he is not qualified.

Edited May 20, 2017 by chaosed

[taurean]

Whilst there are undoubtedly people out there on the make under that loose heading of "therapist",  I would say that exposure to them can be limited by following guidelines for seeking a therapist which can be found on the OCD-UK website. 

Personally, as a former businessman, there are significant costs attached to operating a professional's business - office rent, wages for secretarial assistance, accountants charges, insurance, to name but some - all must come out of chargeable fee income before you get to the professional's remuneration.

Put pure and simply, it costs a lot to run a therapy business - the cheapest is therefore likely to be a one-man band working from home - but unless they have the relevant training, and good understanding and experience of OCD, they may not be much use. 

Like most things it certainly isn't just about price - it's about quality experience and benefit too.

Edited May 20, 2017 by taurean

[Ashley]

1 hour ago, chaosed said:

for me it would be two CBT sessions' worth. He dedicates a big part of his life helping people overcome OCD, and a man gotta eat. Of course there is no reason to ask for money if you help people in your free time, but if you help people full time, where else could you get money from?  Plus, he states very clearly that he is not qualified.

I like Mark's stuff, but the point is that money would be better spent with a qualified specialist, so with all due respect two sessions with Mark is fine, but if you're saying that's worth just one with a therapist, then for example Liz Forrester spent years working in a clinical setting and that one session with her could be invaluable (plus I have been told several times that she often spends 90+ minutes with people, despite only charging them for 60). 

[PhilM]

I learnt the hard way in the late 90s - I was paying money for therapy which was totally inappropriate for OCD and I couldn't really afford the cash. Gestalt, Psychodynamic therapy - really "enjoyed" talking about my childhood but it had no impact on my OCD. I didn't know any better - I was like a headless chicken or as Claire Weekes said (and I don't feel like I need to apologise for repeating this quote friends ) a "rudderless boat on a turbulent sea".

I was clutching at anything because I was so desperate - I'm not saying all were charlatans but probably "therapists" who meant well but didn't really have a clue. It's different 20ish years on but we need to be very careful about private treatment in my view. Believe me I saw a lot of people on the NHS and privately who didn't have a clue about OCD and as Ashley knows I've had similar experiences recently. Best wishes, Phil.

[Wonderer]

12 minutes ago, PhilM said:

I learnt the hard way in the late 90s - I was paying money for therapy which was totally inappropriate for OCD and I couldn't really afford the cash. Gestalt, Psychodynamic therapy - really "enjoyed" talking about my childhood but it had no impact on my OCD. I didn't know any better - I was like a headless chicken or as Claire Weekes said (and I don't feel like I need to apologise for repeating this quote friends ) a "rudderless boat on a turbulent sea".

I was clutching at anything because I was so desperate - I'm not saying all were charlatans but probably "therapists" who meant well but didn't really have a clue. It's different 20ish years on but we need to be very careful about private treatment in my view. Believe me I saw a lot of people on the NHS and privately who didn't have a clue about OCD and as Ashley knows I've had similar experiences recently. Best wishes, Phil.

I had a similar experience 9yrs ago, I had 6 months of psychoanalysis, it didn't help my OCD but did help me in other ways as I did have past trauma. Only getting the right help now!xx

[carolj]

I dont mean to be controversial about this, as Ashley knows, we spent a lot of money for my son on an intensive course that proved to be a complete waste of time.  However, I do think we have to be careful not to expect those with mental health expertise not to charge the same as those who deal with physical ailments and indeed other services.

My 34 year old daughter has had a stroke.  The NHS have been fantastic, but she wants to see the expert in the condition that caused the stroke.  We have got together the £300 needed to see him.  Before I went on holiday I wanted to see a rheumatologist to get some help with pain.  I am still on the NHS waiting list and he saw me on what was a 'return' appointment as I saw him years ago, that was £150, would have been £200.

Is it because its hard to find swift, expert help on the NHS, that we feel the private sector are cashing in on this, which actually they are not charging any more than the 'physical' experts? 

 

[Wonderer]

4 hours ago, carolj said:

I dont mean to be controversial about this, as Ashley knows, we spent a lot of money for my son on an intensive course that proved to be a complete waste of time.  However, I do think we have to be careful not to expect those with mental health expertise not to charge the same as those who deal with physical ailments and indeed other services.

My 34 year old daughter has had a stroke.  The NHS have been fantastic, but she wants to see the expert in the condition that caused the stroke.  We have got together the £300 needed to see him.  Before I went on holiday I wanted to see a rheumatologist to get some help with pain.  I am still on the NHS waiting list and he saw me on what was a 'return' appointment as I saw him years ago, that was £150, would have been £200.

Is it because its hard to find swift, expert help on the NHS, that we feel the private sector are cashing in on this, which actually they are not charging any more than the 'physical' experts? 

 

You're not being controversial at all, I have booked various private appointments myself for my kids and I, my mums just been to a private rheumatology appointment this past week also, I brought my son to have his hearing checked privately years ago as the nursery felt he had a problem and the waiting list was so long, there's a private hospital here that has the same name as an NHS hospital and we went to the wrong one, after sitting for a couple of hours waiting on our appointment it was apparent we were in the wrong one and the NHS kindly seen him that day anyways and he had a significant hearing impairment and I am very grateful to them for that. However I did have to shop around as again the prices were very varied depending on the doctor, my mum was the same with her rheumatology appointment also, I had a lump in the breast and went private on an ultrasound scan, I was told that day that I was fine and was able to pay the cost of the appointment off in instalments, I hadn't completed the payment when I received a letter in the post a month later saying that the doc who had done my scan has wrongly diagnosed and given many women who had cancer the all clear so my scan was being looked at again by a different doctor and the original one was suspended pending investigations (since been struck off!) obviously I began to panic and rang the hospital to say I would not be paying the rest of the fee, I got a lot of hassle for that! I asked a nurse why the appointments costed so much in other hospitals and she said that private doctors are allowed to charge as much as they like, it's entirely up to them! There will always be genuine doctors who charge accordingly and there will always be those ones that want to make as much as possible and just because they can, they will! Physical or mental, it's basically up to there own discretion! I hope ur daughter is doing ok? And ur pain is getting better? 

I think I focused more on mental health in this topic because there are so many quacks without qualifications charging extortionate amounts of money that desperate people are willing to pay,,but with physical illnesses it would be extremely hard to be able to do such a thing as they must be qualified doctors and just can't charge for their experience of a physical problem if u know what I mean? Xx

[taurean]

I think It's important to get into the private clinics with people experienced in OCD and pucker qualifications - not the "any one can call themselves a therapist "  outfits as per Ashley's comment. 

I saw such private clinical psychologists. The cost is the cost, they are running a business and need to make a living. 

Surely it's better to go without something, or some things, for a while and instead pay for private treatment that can set us on the road to recovery from a vicious, debilitating, life-restricting illness? 

[Wonderer]

31 minutes ago, taurean said:

I think It's important to get into the private clinics with people experienced in OCD and pucker qualifications - not the "any one can call themselves a therapist "  outfits as per Ashley's comment. 

I saw such private clinical psychologists. The cost is the cost, they are running a business and need to make a living. 

Surely it's better to go without something, or some things, for a while and instead pay for private treatment that can set us on the road to recovery from a vicious, debilitating, life-restricting illness? 

Absolutely as long as u know what ur looking for and are prepared to pay for a good quality experienced therapist then by all means, go for it. Just be careful not to get sucked into the many con artists out there who are happy to make a mint from vulnerable people. I suppose the most rubbish I've seen is online and people should be mindful when looking online for "cures" or help that can cost a lot and isn't worth a penny! X

[taurean]

" I suppose the most rubbish I've seen is online and people should be mindful when looking online for "cures" or help that can cost a lot and isn't worth a penny! X". Sums up the Internet Wonderer - it's always a matter of sorting out the wheat from the chaff. 

My own therapist's practice will do Skype, but will only consider after meeting first with the patient and then agreeing to it - and there are sensible terns and conditions. Lauren Callaghan who co-wrote "Pulling The Trigger"  is one of the Directors of the practice. 

As I said before, it's sensible to read guidance from OCD-UK on their website when looking for a private therapist. 

 

[Angst]

Therapy exists in an unregulated market. We have more consumer protection in buying a light bulb then buying therapy. Wonderer makes a good point about the private sector in medicine. The recent case in which a surgeon faced criminal action and civil cases for malpractice for unnecessary breast surgery demonstrated that surveillance of surgical procedures needs more attention in NHS and is very poor in the private sector. We need to reintroduce Community Health Councils that used to look into complaints from the local community about NHS and extend it to private hospitals and practices including mental health treatment. Therapists should be centrally registered and their qualifications and experience examined and their activities monitored by Community Health Councils. I am dubious about professional bodies being the only bodies to regulate therapists.

[mudorstars]

Hi Ashley, 

 

Does Dr Forres ter do private appointments? I saw her at the Maudsley, but have since moved to Dorset and am having real trouble getting CBT ERP. 

Xx

[Ashley]

She does, she left CADAT a few years ago now.   Her website is: http://www.dreforrester.co.uk/