Intrusive thoughts about dying

[JennieWren]

Not long ago I had a deep and certain feeling that I was going to die soon. This came from a very deep place and it felt completely certain. I felt an equally deep sense of peace and contentment and letting go. Since then I've been trying to pick apart what it meant. Usually my intrusive thoughts are full of maybes and accompanied by a feeling of distress. So now I am anxious that I wasn't distressed and that this thought felt so different to the others. More like a spiritual experience. Has anyone else had intrusive thoughts of this nature? My mind is so untrustworthy I never know what's OCD and I'm very new to this.

if it's helpful to know I have had the idea for a long time now that I'm going to die while my children are young, triggered by a cancer story I was told. But usually this idea is very distressing to me and the above wasn't.

[JennieWren]

And it's like one minute I feel like this wise old cookie, whose been through so much and made such improvements. But then I look at my life and what I'm still doing, I feel totally overwhelmed. And then the next day I feel accepting of my situation and don't want to change. And then the next moment I feel so much grief about all this suffering. 

[PolarBear]

I was convinced throughout my life that I would die at an earlier age than when my dad died. I thought about it often. Didn't work out to be true.

Your problem is that you analyze these thoughts, trying to test their validity. That's a compulsion and it needs to stop.

[JennieWren]

I feel like saying "yes but..." and then I realise you are right. 

7 hours ago, PolarBear said:

Your problem is that you analyze these thoughts, trying to test their validity. That's a compulsion and it needs to stop.

Any ideas on the best ways you've found to stop testing? Especially as the anxiety becomes bad. The tension of not resolving it feels very very bad. Like I might snap. I struggle to sit with uncertainty.

[PolarBear]

Well you stop testing by stopping testing. Before that you have to become aware and understand that it is a pointless exercise and a compulsion. You have to understand that compulsions don't work; they feed the OCD, ensuring more intrusive thoughts will come round in the future. And compulsions don't work because they never stop anything. Soon enough, doubt and more intrusive thoughts arise, causing you to want to do more compulsions, which leads to more doubt and intrusive thoughts and round and round you go. So awareness and knowledge is key.

Then you start stopping. You tell yourself, "I'm not going there this time." And yes, that will cause anxiety. Sufferers have an aversion to anxiety. But you can learn that it won't kill you. The first time will feel awful. So will the next dozen times. But slowly, over time, avoiding a particular compulsion will cause your anxiety to spike a little less high and then a little less, over time. Eventually you'll barely get a rise out of your anxiety.

All sufferers struggle with uncertainty. You have to accept it. You just can't be certain about much in this world. The more you accept uncertainty, the easier it gets.

[Nikki79]

Don't want to hijack this thread but Polarbear when you mean tolerating uncertainty how exactly does that work when a person is feeling bad about a fear of something. I mean if they see both sides of the argument for or against their fear, does that make sense?

[PolarBear]

Well, you have to stop coming up with arguments for or against an intrusive thought. That's a compulsion and it's going to get you nowhere. Things of pros and cons never works with OCD.

To get better, to get truly better, I had to agree with my intrusive thoughts in my mind. Yes, when I got an intrusive thought about being pedophile, I'd say to myself, "Yup, I guess I'm a pedophile," then I'd get on with my day. It gives your OCD nowhere to go.

Sounds like a crazy way to recover but it works. I'll guarantee you this: all the brain power you've expended over who knows how long trying to convince yourself you are not what you fear hasn't done one bit of good. So why continue doing it?

[Nikki79]

Polarbear today when I met my Therapist she spoke about evidence based and mindfulness techniques  to tackle them. She said reassuring myself is ok now and again but I told her it could start me on the rumination cycle again. She said there were different types of reassurance. So what she says goes against the uncertainty approach doesn’t it? It’s all so confusing

[PolarBear]

It is better to not reassure yourself, in my opinion. It doesn't work. You've reassured yourself how many times? Did it work for long? Have you recovered from this particular obsession?

[Nikki79]

Yes Polarbear and I reassure in my head an awful lot of times. I don’t believe I’m also ready to agree with the obsession either, although so admire you and others here for doing that. 

Can I ask how does accepting uncertainty work in one’s mind? Does it just mean not doing anything but always doubtful or is it more complex than that?

[PolarBear]

It means you don't care. It means youre not going to spend one more minute ruminating over the thoughts. It's leaving them alone because they're not worth your energy.

[Nikki79]

I find it keeps changing which bit of the worry concerns me and sometimes it even seems how it may not be a concern but it loves to discount that one or whatever.

I mean I just want to feel not guilty and have peace of mind and not be constantly harassed by this stuff.

Edited November 15, 2017 by Nikki79

[Nikki79]

Polarbear I think I am most scared by the thinking that happened in the ruminations with scenarios I’m scared of their importance if that makes sense. They seem to be ‘possibilities’ of some sort and that is where they have me. How can I move past them PB? How can I do that move on? As I am sure this is what every OCD sufferer deals with.

Queue had a panicky thought there now about something I think may have occurred and I believed it and get bad.

Edited November 15, 2017 by Nikki79

[JennieWren]

You say you are not ready to discount the thoughts and agree with them but what if you did it anyway? It doesn't mean you are morally agreeing with what it means. It means you are doing your OCD homework. It is a way of giving the thoughts nowhere to go.

[JennieWren]

8 hours ago, PolarBear said:

Well you stop testing by stopping testing. Before that you have to become aware and understand that it is a pointless exercise and a compulsion. You have to understand that compulsions don't work; they feed the OCD, ensuring more intrusive thoughts will come round in the future. And compulsions don't work because they never stop anything. Soon enough, doubt and more intrusive thoughts arise, causing you to want to do more compulsions, which leads to more doubt and intrusive thoughts and round and round you go. So awareness and knowledge is key.

Then you start stopping. You tell yourself, "I'm not going there this time." And yes, that will cause anxiety. Sufferers have an aversion to anxiety. But you can learn that it won't kill you. The first time will feel awful. So will the next dozen times. But slowly, over time, avoiding a particular compulsion will cause your anxiety to spike a little less high and then a little less, over time. Eventually you'll barely get a rise out of your anxiety.

All sufferers struggle with uncertainty. You have to accept it. You just can't be certain about much in this world. The more you accept uncertainty, the easier it gets.

Thank you for taking the effort to write this post. After my first former wobble about whether or not to engage with treatment, I feel ready to make changes and do the work. Something clicked in my head last night and suddenly I can see the problem is my worrying, my rumination and testing not the the intrusive thoughts. The support on this forum is so helpful, so precise and no BS. Just what I needed.

[PolarBear]

I'm not sure I understand Nikki. You ruminate and that resulted in you getting more thoughts that bothered you?

[Nikki79]

10 hours ago, JennieWren said:

You say you are not ready to discount the thoughts and agree with them but what if you did it anyway? It doesn't mean you are morally agreeing with what it means. It means you are doing your OCD homework. It is a way of giving the thoughts nowhere to go.

Agreeing with thoughts so but not really agreeing with them, is that how it works? I'm not sure how I can do that you see.

[Nikki79]

1 hour ago, PolarBear said:

I'm not sure I understand Nikki. You ruminate and that resulted in you getting more thoughts that bothered you?

Yes PB I ruminated and had more thoughts that really bothered me, they seemed like they could have potentially happened and that is where I panicked.

[PolarBear]

Do they're just more intrusive thoughts and you deal with them in the same way.

[Nikki79]

39 minutes ago, PolarBear said:

Do they're just more intrusive thoughts and you deal with them in the same way.

It just is dealing with all the thoughts related to what can bother me is the key right? Just got hit with a repetitive thought just now telling me why I need to think on whatever....It’s so sneaky PB ?

Edited November 16, 2017 by Nikki79