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Punishments for adolescents with OCD/aspergers


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I've read that you are supposed to try to treat kids with this as normal with regards to this.

BUT it is difficult - because you want to give them some space and not get them more stressed. So we've tried with our son.

Its just not worked. Hes become the master liar and manipulator. Give him an inch and he'll take a mile. Nothing seems to bother him other than getting what he wants.

Last straw today was his head of year phoning. Looks like hes not been doing homework. Hes had letters and reports for us and been hiding them from us.

 

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Well, it’s a tricky one really, if my son is in a meltdown, it can seem like downright disgraceful behaviour but it’s usually in response to too much sensory stimuli or a real lack of understanding (they can appear to understand just fine when high functioning, but on closer inspection it’s not so!) so he can be screaming, throwing things, hitting himself and rolling about kicking his legs out, and trying to talk or reason with them in this state is just pointless, I’ve learned over the years to just allow him to carry on until he starts to calm down naturally and then after it’s over speak to him about what happened and have a few words then. However, if my sons throwing a wobbly just because he’s being badly behaved as all kids can be, then I prefer to take the PlayStation or iPad away as punishment, grounding, all those typical punishments that kids get, but sometimes it’s very difficult to tell the difference between the two, meltdown or bad behaviour, it can be hard to figure out what’s what! 

You need to find out why he’s not doing his  homework, is it because he just doesn’t want to, or is there a bigger reason behind all that, he could be struggling with the work and too embarrassed to admit it, he may be so consumed with his ocd that he doesn’t feel like he can fit it in between all his rituals, he may have a serious lack of concentration going on with all those intrusive thoughts and worries, once u know why, then U can make a plan for moving forward. 

Personally, my son can be so emotionally drained after school that he literally can’t do his homework, on those days I allow him to skip it and the school know and are understanding of it.xx

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1 hour ago, paulfoel said:

Oh yes VERY difficult indeed.

A lot of his behaviour issues are because of laziness and the fact that he'd rather be doing something else like playing on his PC. This is why the homework wasnt getting done.

Hmmm does his school have an after schools homework club? My eldest who is 14 wasn’t completing some homework’s for a while, his punishment was discussed between myself and his school and the end result was homework club 3x a week, it’s done the trick! It’s actually had a lot more benefits than just homework, he’s now taken a much more enthusiastic approach to his school work in general and has been studying like a mad thing for the upcoming Christmas exams!

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On 28/11/2017 at 10:40, Wonderer said:

Hmmm does his school have an after schools homework club? My eldest who is 14 wasn’t completing some homework’s for a while, his punishment was discussed between myself and his school and the end result was homework club 3x a week, it’s done the trick! It’s actually had a lot more benefits than just homework, he’s now taken a much more enthusiastic approach to his school work in general and has been studying like a mad thing for the upcoming Christmas exams!

Well for last two weeks hes been forced to spend lunchtimes catfching up on work which hes not too keen on! :-)

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2 minutes ago, paulfoel said:

Well for last two weeks hes been forced to spend lunchtimes catfching up on work which hes not too keen on! :-)

Uh oh lol! Hopefully it will teach him a lesson and you won’t encounter the same problem again! ?

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Oh no, what’s the next step? School is such a difficult one, my son with aspergers is terribly anxious about school/school work despite being very intelligent, he just worries a lot about it therefore they have had to make provisions for him!

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  • 2 weeks later...

Things after a bit of a lull are back to being awful again.

He uses every trick in the book to get what he wants now. He lies constantly, hes manipulative. Whatever you tell him he just does what he wants anyway. Hes also started using his illness OCD as an excuse not to do things. He also deveopled strange new things like spraying anti-bac spray onto his bits after using the toilet (which is not good).

Also, apparently its all our fault as parents because we made him like this by stressing him out all the time.

Constant letters from school now about homework etc.

Hes done none of the homework given to him by counsellor. Basically, makes zero effort to help himself. Seems happy to just go along as he is, shout at everyone and get his own way. Counsellor has pretty much said to us that she can do no more him until he decides to help himself.

We're been trying to treat him fairly but still sticking to basic house rules. Nothing too difficult. Just put things back, consideration for others (inc dont use all the hot water every day in teh shower for an hour!), no shouting and screaming, homework gets done. Thats it. Nowhere near at the moment.

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Awk Paul it’s so tough. My son is also awful with his self help, interestingly though, I as an ocd sufferer went through cognitive behavioural therapy, the main focus being the cognitive side but as my son has aspergers like urs, they have told me they have changed tactics with him and will focus more on the behavioural side as the cognitive side is difficult for them due to the ASD and their cognitive processes, maybe this is something you could mention to his therapist, she may already be doing that but it’s worth checking out. Thing is the pain of going through OCD treatment is horrendous, it is easier to suffer and perform compulsions for short term relief than it is to work through it, but as an adult I knew that is what I had to do for long term recovery, children on the other hand must find it so, so difficult.xx

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On 12/12/2017 at 17:56, Wonderer said:

Awk Paul it’s so tough. My son is also awful with his self help, interestingly though, I as an ocd sufferer went through cognitive behavioural therapy, the main focus being the cognitive side but as my son has aspergers like urs, they have told me they have changed tactics with him and will focus more on the behavioural side as the cognitive side is difficult for them due to the ASD and their cognitive processes, maybe this is something you could mention to his therapist, she may already be doing that but it’s worth checking out. Thing is the pain of going through OCD treatment is horrendous, it is easier to suffer and perform compulsions for short term relief than it is to work through it, but as an adult I knew that is what I had to do for long term recovery, children on the other hand must find it so, so difficult.xx

Yes see what you mean. Its is easier for him to just carry on as normal rather than do any hard work.

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Absolutely, even though your miserable u would do anything for that temporary relief, the treatment causes excruciating anxiety and it takes a hell of a lot of hard work to push through it, it’s the most horrible condition to live with.x

Edited by Wonderer
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  • 2 weeks later...

Things are still VERY VERY bad. He just does what he wants.

Whatever rules we put in place, he does what he wants. He will lie and manipulate until he gets what he wants. We've tried being nice but he just takes advantage. Nothing seems to make any difference to him.

I appreciate its an illness hes got but its getting out of control. He will lock himself in the bathroom for hours at a time, he will use all the hot water in the shower. If we go out he basically trashes any public toliet (he takes spray bleach and soaks everywhere). Cupboards and bedrooms are locked in the house to stop him getting at stuff. Today Im contacting a plumber to get an external water cut off switch fitted to get him out of the shower.

I just don't know how to stop him at the moment.

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On 27/12/2017 at 11:41, paulfoel said:

Things are still VERY VERY bad. He just does what he wants.

Whatever rules we put in place, he does what he wants. He will lie and manipulate until he gets what he wants. We've tried being nice but he just takes advantage. Nothing seems to make any difference to him.

I appreciate its an illness hes got but its getting out of control. He will lock himself in the bathroom for hours at a time, he will use all the hot water in the shower. If we go out he basically trashes any public toliet (he takes spray bleach and soaks everywhere). Cupboards and bedrooms are locked in the house to stop him getting at stuff. Today Im contacting a plumber to get an external water cut off switch fitted to get him out of the shower.

I just don't know how to stop him at the moment.

Cutting the water off will not solve the problem, in fact, u should probably brace yourself for some serious meltdowns when u switch the water off on him. He will find other compulsive behaviours to cope. Is the medication having no effect? Has he had an increase in meds lately? He needs intense psychological help, I know you have said before he won’t engage, he will not get better unless he does. Sometimes the condition can sort of settle a bit without the treatment but that’s likely to be very short lived. I really feel for u all as a family and my heart breaks for ur son, I know he’s unbearable at the moment for u, but of course u must know deep down he would not want to intentionally irritate and upset the ones who love him most. Maybe u should take him back to the doctors and tell them just how extreme things are, maybe he needs inpatient treatment ? x

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On 28/12/2017 at 20:19, Wonderer said:

Cutting the water off will not solve the problem, in fact, u should probably brace yourself for some serious meltdowns when u switch the water off on him. He will find other compulsive behaviours to cope. Is the medication having no effect? Has he had an increase in meds lately? He needs intense psychological help, I know you have said before he won’t engage, he will not get better unless he does. Sometimes the condition can sort of settle a bit without the treatment but that’s likely to be very short lived. I really feel for u all as a family and my heart breaks for ur son, I know he’s unbearable at the moment for u, but of course u must know deep down he would not want to intentionally irritate and upset the ones who love him most. Maybe u should take him back to the doctors and tell them just how extreme things are, maybe he needs inpatient treatment ? x

Hi Wonderer - yes I know he won't be happy but its got to the stage where we're forced into a corner because of the effect on everyone else. I know he doesn't want to be like this but its so tough. 

Like I said, we can't take him outside the house because he will misuse any public toilet.  We went out over xmas - he took spray with him  (he lied and said he didn't) and then COMPLETELY SOAKED the bathroom in a restaurant. I think I mentioned what he did on a plane once? We've tried to talk to him about this - he denies it and gets very nasty and says its not him but we know it is.

Hes very very sneaky and manipulative at the moment and lies all the time. I suppose its the illness but its like a drug addict doing what they need to do to get what they want.

Recently found that he was stealing and stashing away diarhoea tablets. Basically, taking them for days on end to totally stop going to the toilet for number 2s because he thinks this is "dirty". Obviously, thats not going to end well and we're forced to lock these away now.

Hes on 50mg sertraline which I think is a low dose. It has calmed him down a little  if anything but has had no effect on the OCD. To be honest, at the moment. this is something because it was getting very serious with his violent actions. Probably go back to consultant for a follow-up appointment and med review - so maybe an increase is in order. (That'llbe £200 again!).

Waiting to hear from CAMHS. Promised 2/3 week start of therapy in november. Useless they are. 

Consultant suspects Aspergers also. Local university has got a specialised autism/aspergers unit who do assessments. £90 which seems good to me. (Better than the £25 a pop we've been paying on counselling which doesnt really do anything)

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Hi Paul, things are obviously extremely bad, especially if u can’t even take him outside, could u make an appointment with the GP but u and his mum go to it without him,, explain how bad things are and demand intervention??

you’re right about the “drug addict” similarities, he must get his compulsions done to suppress the overwhelming anxiety and feelings, like a drug addict he must give those compulsions up and slowly the cravings will subside.

You should really tell the doctor about the tablets he’s been taking to stop his bowels from moving, this is moving on to effectively physically harming himself, my son didn’t take tablets but he would hold his in for a very long time and then be in so much pain, he even ended up with blood in his stools at one point. 

Yes I believe sertraline can go up to 200mg for OCD in children so maybe it’s time to get that reviewed, although do you need to do that privately? Did the prescribing doctor send a letter through to his own gp about the meds? If so u may be able to get the increase sorted with them.

get back onto CAMHS, just don’t stop torturing them until they do what they have to do! Unfortunately with the way things are with the NHS and especially the mental health sector, we do need to keep pushing them. 

£90 is extremely cheap for an aspergers assessment, where I live it’s a good few hundred pounds.good luck! 

 

 

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On 03/01/2018 at 12:11, Wonderer said:

Hi Paul, things are obviously extremely bad, especially if u can’t even take him outside, could u make an appointment with the GP but u and his mum go to it without him,, explain how bad things are and demand intervention??

you’re right about the “drug addict” similarities, he must get his compulsions done to suppress the overwhelming anxiety and feelings, like a drug addict he must give those compulsions up and slowly the cravings will subside.

You should really tell the doctor about the tablets he’s been taking to stop his bowels from moving, this is moving on to effectively physically harming himself, my son didn’t take tablets but he would hold his in for a very long time and then be in so much pain, he even ended up with blood in his stools at one point. 

Yes I believe sertraline can go up to 200mg for OCD in children so maybe it’s time to get that reviewed, although do you need to do that privately? Did the prescribing doctor send a letter through to his own gp about the meds? If so u may be able to get the increase sorted with them.

get back onto CAMHS, just don’t stop torturing them until they do what they have to do! Unfortunately with the way things are with the NHS and especially the mental health sector, we do need to keep pushing them. 

£90 is extremely cheap for an aspergers assessment, where I live it’s a good few hundred pounds.good luck! 

 

 

Hi again wonderer,

Yes its exactlmy like a drug addict. He will do whatever it takes.

Consultant did send letter to GP so at least we can get on NHS but we do need to go back to consultant for med review (£200 again!). Hoping after this he can advise GP to increase meds as necessary afterwards.

CAMHS are useless. Some of the people there dont deserve a job looking after hamsters. We've been in A&E once after his behaviour got very violent and pretty much said we wanted something done NOW. All that happened is that CAMHS did another assessment and we're STILL waiting to get therapy started.

Even when we moaned the cheeky cow at CAMHS said there was nothing they should do and we should phone the police if he got violent and have him arrested. Also, said we should take a look at out parenting skills!

Ah I jumped the gun on the assessment. It would be £90 admin fees to start the process off. Its £650 for a proper assessment. Now I do ok income-wise but that a  LOT of money. Also, I think we know, so not sure what having his confirtmed would do.

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  • 1 month later...
On 03/01/2018 at 12:11, Wonderer said:

Hi Paul, things are obviously extremely bad, especially if u can’t even take him outside, could u make an appointment with the GP but u and his mum go to it without him,, explain how bad things are and demand intervention??

you’re right about the “drug addict” similarities, he must get his compulsions done to suppress the overwhelming anxiety and feelings, like a drug addict he must give those compulsions up and slowly the cravings will subside.

You should really tell the doctor about the tablets he’s been taking to stop his bowels from moving, this is moving on to effectively physically harming himself, my son didn’t take tablets but he would hold his in for a very long time and then be in so much pain, he even ended up with blood in his stools at one point. 

Yes I believe sertraline can go up to 200mg for OCD in children so maybe it’s time to get that reviewed, although do you need to do that privately? Did the prescribing doctor send a letter through to his own gp about the meds? If so u may be able to get the increase sorted with them.

get back onto CAMHS, just don’t stop torturing them until they do what they have to do! Unfortunately with the way things are with the NHS and especially the mental health sector, we do need to keep pushing them. 

£90 is extremely cheap for an aspergers assessment, where I live it’s a good few hundred pounds.good luck! 

 

 

Hi again wonderer,

Yes its exactlmy like a drug addict. He will do whatever it takes.

Consultant did send letter to GP so at least we can get on NHS but we do need to go back to consultant for med review (£200 again!). Hoping after this he can advise GP to increase meds as necessary afterwards.

CAMHS are useless. Some of the people there dont deserve a job looking after hamsters. We've been in A&E once after his behaviour got very violent and pretty much said we wanted something done NOW. All that happened is that CAMHS did another assessment and we're STILL waiting to get therapy started.

Even when we moaned the cheeky cow at CAMHS said there was nothing they should do and we should phone the police if he got violent and have him arrested. Also, said we should take a look at out parenting skills!

Ah I jumped the gun on the assessment. It would be £90 admin fees to start the process off. Its £650 for a proper assessment. Now I do ok income-wise but that a  LOT of money. Also, I think we know, so not sure what having his confirtmed would do.

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Still never really solved this problem. How much do we let go and how much do we put our foot down with?

If you remember he has these bathroom rituals. Involved completely spraying the bathroom with spray disinfectant and using lots of hand gel. Trouble is its not just before use.

After use, he likes to spray disinfectant onto the toliet, floor etc and leave it wet. For some reason thats his thing. Also, in the past he smears hand gel on the surfaces of things too. Public toilets hes worse - and in the past had literally plastered every inch of the floor with toilet paper.

We've tried to explain to him that OK we understand but he does need to leave the toilet in a decent state for others to use. At home you literally have to spend 10 minutes cleaning before you can use the toilet.

Should we let this go because its his thing or telling him no way?

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8 hours ago, paulfoel said:

Should we let this go because its his thing or telling him no way?

That's up to you. Personally I'd say 'no way' and let there be fallout mentally for him if that's how he chooses to react. The family have got to live and it can't be mentally good for any of you to live like this.

You seem afraid of 'getting it wrong' :unsure: but remember it's all just part of an ongoing life experience for him.  His entire future mental well-being doesn't pivot on any single management decision you make. 

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10 hours ago, snowbear said:

That's up to you. Personally I'd say 'no way' and let there be fallout mentally for him if that's how he chooses to react. The family have got to live and it can't be mentally good for any of you to live like this.

You seem afraid of 'getting it wrong' :unsure: but remember it's all just part of an ongoing life experience for him.  His entire future mental well-being doesn't pivot on any single management decision you make. 

Thanks SB. We want to support and help but it does often conflict with everyone else in the family at times.

Its just we have a hard time trying to decide when its his aspergers/ocd causing him issues and when its just bad behaviour.

 

Although found out last night he'd "forgotten" to take his medication for the past 10 days. £500 in consultants fees to get this for him and hes forgotten to take it! Bear in mind hes almost 15.

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