When you talk about a reaction to a thought....

[Saz]

Hi when you talk about a reaction to a thought, is that the fight or flight response? If a thought/image/scenario  enters your mind or you think about a thought long enough and you get that big rush of anxiety and panic, is that the reaction you mean? I know you say on here it's how I react to the thought/s but if that kind of fight or flight thing happens, we're it makes you feel like that, for me,  I can't help that the thought produced that reaction in the first place...and then of course the worry is, is it even just a thought. 

Im trying so hard but I am struggling. I can feel that fear as clear as I did 5 years ago. 

Edited December 10, 2017 by Saz

[Tanana]

I don't think, in your case, this is the fight or fright response (a natural response by anyone to an initial thought/trigger). It sounds more like a response your brain has learnt from 5 yrs of ocd and associated compulsions.

Not always confident giving advice on here in case I'm wrong - so happy to be corrected.

[OceanDweller]

Hi Saz. It’s the meaning you attach to the thought that produces the feeling. It might not appear so, but you can learn (through practise) to let thoughts just float by. So ‘I’m going to commit murder’ carries the same weight as ‘I’m going to order pizza tonight’, which shouldn’t induce a fight or flight response. Unless anyone mentions anchovies. They’re just so wrong!

[taurean]

1 hour ago, Saz said:

 I know you say on here it's how I react to the thought/s but if that kind of fight or flight thing happens, we're it makes you feel like that, for me,  I can't help that the thought produced that reaction in the first place...and then of course the worry is, is it even just a thought. 

Im trying so hard but I am struggling. I can feel that fear as clear as I did 5 years ago. 

You feel the fear because you give meaning to, connect with, intrusive thoughts. 

That's NOT what to do. And when you do , that anxiety response,fight or flight,   kicks in.

It's all about changing that learned response.

I picked up an intrusive thought from something I read the other day, which would have led to an OCD attempt to personalise the story to me - similar to that particular theme of yours. 

I felt the attempt, I felt a flash of anxiety - but I did what my learned wise friends on here told me to do in these circumstances.

I remembered the OCD does this with my theme, and that it's a connection that doesn't exist - false. 

I gently but wilfully eased my mental focus away and back to where my thinking had been and got fully involved again in that. I could if wanted have refocused onto something else beneficial and involved. 

The attempted OCD connection to the thought was broken, the anxiety surge subsided and my mind and body reverted back to calm. 

I don't get such intrusions very often now. When we believe, connect with, intrusions we encourage them, they strengthen, and appear more frequently. 

When we have learned, and practice, that new behaviour of not connecting with them then they weaken and occur less frequently. 

This is your way forward as I see it Saz.

 

[Saz]

5 hours ago, Tanana said:

I don't think, in your case, this is the fight or fright response (a natural response by anyone to an initial thought/trigger). It sounds more like a response your brain has learnt from 5 yrs of ocd and associated compulsions.

Not always confident giving advice on here in case I'm wrong - so happy to be corrected.

Thanks for your reply. I always worry about giving advice too. I think I had that fight/flight reaction at some point initially 5 years ago but when the horrible fear enters my head I still get it now, if that makes sense. But I see what your saying, it makes sense too. 

5 hours ago, OceanDweller said:

Hi Saz. It’s the meaning you attach to the thought that produces the feeling. It might not appear so, but you can learn (through practise) to let thoughts just float by. So ‘I’m going to commit murder’ carries the same weight as ‘I’m going to order pizza tonight’, which shouldn’t induce a fight or flight response. Unless anyone mentions anchovies. They’re just so wrong!

Thank you OD. But if you get the feeling in the first place of anxiety and then you get the thought /image and then fight/flight response to the thought,  I don't know how you would react to that because you wouldn't know if it was real or not. So obviously I viewed/view it as a real memory and panic set in/still does and that's the reaction I guess.  x

4 hours ago, taurean said:

You feel the fear because you give meaning to, connect with, intrusive thoughts. 

That's NOT what to do. And when you do , that anxiety response,fight or flight,   kicks in.

It's all about changing that learned response.

I picked up an intrusive thought from something I read the other day, which would have led to an OCD attempt to personalise the story to me - similar to that particular theme of yours. 

I felt the attempt, I felt a flash of anxiety - but I did what my learned wise friends on here told me to do in these circumstances.

I remembered the OCD does this with my theme, and that it's a connection that doesn't exist - false. 

I gently but wilfully eased my mental focus away and back to where my thinking had been and got fully involved again in that. I could if wanted have refocused onto something else beneficial and involved. 

The attempted OCD connection to the thought was broken, the anxiety surge subsided and my mind and body reverted back to calm. 

I don't get such intrusions very often now. When we believe, connect with, intrusions we encourage them, they strengthen, and appear more frequently. 

When we have learned, and practice, that new behaviour of not connecting with them then they weaken and occur less frequently. 

This is your way forward as I see it Saz.

 

Thanks Roy and glad you were able to knock your intrusion on the head, so to speak, before it took hold. I just don't see a way forward for me. I know people have been told not respond when I appear to be looking for reassurance, and I accept and understand that. Maybe it is all the news articles that have made me feel worse, just like Gingerbreadgirl. I'm just so unclear and I am worried about going into therapy if I can't change my thinking, I really can't even afford it but willing to give it a shot because I can't carry on this way. I really thought I had turned a corner the other week. I'm stuck at the moment on thinking that the person in my 'false memory' will come forward anytime now. That thought is consuming me. X

 

[OceanDweller]

You’re welcome Saz. I was always taught through CBT that our feelings are dictated by our thoughts, not the other way around, I’m happy to be corrected of course!

[taurean]

8 minutes ago, Saz said:

I'm stuck at the moment on thinking that the person in my 'false memory' will come forward anytime now. That thought is consuming me. X

Then you apply the same technique I just described Saz. Don't connect with or give meaning to that thought. It's what we all need to do. It will become a new beneficial learned behaviour if you stick with it - and then the intrusions will lose power and frequency. 

 

 

[Madchoc]

Hi Roy, I suffer from contamination OCD, mainly about dog poo, even just driving past it gives me terrible anxiety, I feel literally covered in it. I know this is not logical, but anxiety kicks in . I am waiting for CBT, would the technique you just described work for me. Thank you.

[Angst]

I am helped in the process of easing my mental mental focus away from the negative thought or imagery by taking medication. Feelings can be moderated or perhaps changed or made more amenable to significant change by drugs.  I choose only to take prescribed medication. I personally would initially try the technique whilst not driving as you are now driving competently despite anxiety. Why not experiment and see the result? In a sense I think we become scientists conducting behavioural experiments on ourselves. In my case by not repeatedly checking things.

[taurean]

With contamination OCD I think the core belief is all about the substance being a threat to self or others, or the cause of revulsion. 

That's what OCD is saying - and yes it does seem to take the obsession to the extremes you describe. 

Acceptance that that is what the OCD is saying, but it's an exaggeration of threat that others don't see or fear, is important. So not, as before mentioned, then giving meaning to or belief in the thought is good. 

But there is going to need to be practising exposure and response prevention to prove to ourselves that the illness is lying and the substance is not the threat it claims. 

 

[Madchoc]

Thank you for your replies, you are the best xx

[Saz]

I'm worrying a bit now as I'm not too sure in which order it all happened. I'm worrying because I think I was anxious about that night and then I just remembered a real memory and got hit with the big rush of anxiety at the same time... I'm honesty not sure and I'm not even sure if it matters because it's not helping me. 

[taurean]

12 minutes ago, Saz said:

I'm worrying a bit now as I'm not too sure in which order it all happened. I'm worrying because I think I was anxious about that night and then I just remembered a real memory and got hit with the big rush of anxiety at the same time... I'm honesty not sure and I'm not even sure if it matters because it's not helping me. 

None of that worrying has any value. Leave it all be. 

This is the point where you gently but firmly stop doing that, and refocus to something beneficial and involved. 

[Caramoole]

Quote

I'm honesty not sure and I'm not even sure if it matters because it's not helping me

No it's not helping you, don't try and work it out.

It is after that flash of anxiety happens that you have to watch how you react.  If you react by instantly thinking It's happening again, this must mean...Bla, Blah, Blah.  If you start analysing, trying to work it out etc etc....it will drag you into the cycle.  You take the blow of anxiety, you accept it's a normal part of the OCD/anxiety process and you refuse to get drawn into the cycle or try to reduce it by running from it, neutralising it, working it out.  You take it on the chin, note it and carry on without doing any actions to flee or solve it.  Just "Know it" for what it is, an anxiety response

[PolarBear]

3 hours ago, Saz said:

I'm worrying a bit now as I'm not too sure in which order it all happened. I'm worrying because I think I was anxious about that night and then I just remembered a real memory and got hit with the big rush of anxiety at the same time... I'm honesty not sure and I'm not even sure if it matters because it's not helping me. 

This is exactly the type of question you have to stop answering. Trying to answer the question is a compulsion and will only drag you back into ruminating.

You DO NOT need to know what order things happened.

[HDC]

On 10/12/2017 at 10:00, taurean said:

You feel the fear because you give meaning to, connect with, intrusive thoughts. 

That's NOT what to do. And when you do , that anxiety response,fight or flight,   kicks in.

It's all about changing that learned response.

I picked up an intrusive thought from something I read the other day, which would have led to an OCD attempt to personalise the story to me - similar to that particular theme of yours. 

I felt the attempt, I felt a flash of anxiety - but I did what my learned wise friends on here told me to do in these circumstances.

I remembered the OCD does this with my theme, and that it's a connection that doesn't exist - false. 

I gently but wilfully eased my mental focus away and back to where my thinking had been and got fully involved again in that. I could if wanted have refocused onto something else beneficial and involved. 

The attempted OCD connection to the thought was broken, the anxiety surge subsided and my mind and body reverted back to calm. 

I don't get such intrusions very often now. When we believe, connect with, intrusions we encourage them, they strengthen, and appear more frequently. 

When we have learned, and practice, that new behaviour of not connecting with them then they weaken and occur less frequently. 

This is your way forward as I see it Saz.

 

Incredible advise Roy, we only feel fear because we connect. 

[Saz]

14 hours ago, Caramoole said:

No it's not helping you, don't try and work it out.

It is after that flash of anxiety happens that you have to watch how you react.  If you react by instantly thinking It's happening again, this must mean...Bla, Blah, Blah.  If you start analysing, trying to work it out etc etc....it will drag you into the cycle.  You take the blow of anxiety, you accept it's a normal part of the OCD/anxiety process and you refuse to get drawn into the cycle or try to reduce it by running from it, neutralising it, working it out.  You take it on the chin, note it and carry on without doing any actions to flee or solve it.  Just "Know it" for what it is, an anxiety response

I think I instantly panicked after that rush of anxiety 5 years ago, although I think I got a rush of anxiety initially but wasn't sure why at the time straight away.. I honestly couldn't now say for certain. I know I need to leave it alone.

All I find myself saying is I know what I have to do, I know what I need to do and I know how ocd works, and I really feel I do... Yet I can't seem apply that change. 

Edited December 11, 2017 by Saz