Do some people never recover?

[gingerbreadgirl]

I'm sorry for the defeatist title to this post.  I actually try never to be defeatist about this but I feel a bit like that now.  I know lots of people do recover - there are people on this forum who are testament to that - but I worry that I never will, not properly. I'm not complaining per se, I am very lucky to have a waxing and waning type and have been through long periods of time with relatively little OCD and for that I am grateful.  I know there are people who suffer without respite for years, and I can't imagine what that must be like.

Since joining this forum I've read every book I could get my hands on, I've done CBT, I've filled in theory A/theory B charts, I've done exposure til I'm blue in the face, I really think I understand the beast and I try to walk the walk - but still it comes back.  Last year I was tootling along, basically fine, enjoying life, things were good, I even thought that it was under control.  Then suddenly OCD hit SO hard, harder than it ever had done before, by miles - I felt like I'd totally lost control of my mind. How can it do that when I'd put so much work in? How can I have made so little headway that it could not just come back, but with avengeance?

In some ways I almost wish someone could just say to me: "yes, you will never fully beat this, you will go from episode to episode and that will suck, but there will be good times in between and there are worse things that could happen in life".  I could adjust my expectations and know that the next time will hit and I could adapt to that.  But I know people do recover and I have worked for that, I really have, and I guess it just bums me out a bit. 

 

Edited March 14, 2018 by gingerbreadgirl

[Isthisreality]

Why would you like to know when the bad periods come? The OCD will only  the bad to you if you take it serious. So if you know there comes periods with silly thoughts and really believe in it, it would be strange if you actually get anxiety.

"I really think I understand the beast and I try to walk the walk" You are leaving space for the OCD to sneak in. 

 

Edited March 14, 2018 by Isthisreality

[gingerbreadgirl]

Hi isthisreality,

Thanks for replying - I'm not sure I quite understand what you mean though?

[Isthisreality]

12 minutes ago, gingerbreadgirl said:

Hi isthisreality,

Thanks for replying - I'm not sure I quite understand what you mean though?

I am sorry. I mean if you really see it for what it is."Silly thoughts" and you actually believe it instead of listen to it. It would be strange if you get anxiety then. HOWEVER it can be that people with OCD will forever need to be more aware of traps. Everybody gets silly thoughts, it's just that people with OCD get's scared of them and tries to neutralize them. But if you are recovered won't you be so scared because you don't let it hijack your fear-response. 

Don't beat yourself up because of this. That would be my practical advice. I would even go so far and say that it is your OCD who wants you to beat yourself up because of this.

Edited March 14, 2018 by Isthisreality

[Bodger]

I actually don't believe we can fully recover. I believe we can learn to manage OCD, and learn to live with it through medication and therapy. I feel we will always be at risk of a blip or even a relapse.

If you question those that claim they are recovered, you usually find they are on meds and do have to practise therapy, hence they manage OCD.

Not being defeatist, just realistic from my experiences.

 

[Isthisreality]

I think that this wiev makes it impossible. Because you need to hit OCD with force. Or it will win every time. 

[PolarBear]

Of course there are people who will never recover. For a variety of reasons. They never get the help they need. They get the wrong help. They don't do the work necessary.

I do believe no matter where you currently are, you can make things better. And once you get there you can again make things a little better.

Am i recovered? I like to think so. I'm certainly an ex-sufferer. I'm on meds to stabilize a number of mental health issues. I don't practice any kind of therspy. I'm far beyond that now.

[gingerbreadgirl]

Just now, PolarBear said:

Of coursForums e there are people who will never recover. For a variety of reasons. They never get the help they need. They get the wrong help. They don't do the work necessary.

 

I think what I really mean is, will some people never recover despite doing the work necessary. 

[gingerbreadgirl]

10 minutes ago, Bodger said:

I actually don't believe we can fully recover. I believe we can learn to manage OCD, and learn to live with it through medication and therapy. I feel we will always be at risk of a blip or even a relapse.

If you question those that claim they are recovered, you usually find they are on meds and do have to practise therapy, hence they manage OCD.

Not being defeatist, just realistic from my experiences.

 

I suppose in some ways this perspective is comforting, actually, in a weird way.

[snowbear]

7 minutes ago, gingerbreadgirl said:

I almost wish someone could just say to me: "yes, you will never fully beat this, you will go from episode to episode and that will suck, but there will be good times in between and there are worse things that could happen in life".  I could adjust my expectations and know that the next time will hit and I could adapt to that.

Born into an era before the internet, before CBT existed, before psychiatrists even used the name OCD , for most of my life I thought that kind of resigned adaptation was the only option. But, whatever we tell ourselves, in practise our expectations and hopes never lower and it hurts just as much every time.  

13 minutes ago, gingerbreadgirl said:

Since joining this forum I've read every book I could get my hands on, I've done CBT, I've filled in theory A/theory B charts, I've done exposure til I'm blue in the face, I really think I understand the beast and I try to walk the walk - but still it comes back.  Last year I was tootling along, basically fine, enjoying life, things were good, I even thought that it was under control.  Then suddenly OCD hit SO hard, harder than it ever had done before, by miles. How can it do that when I'd put so much work in? How can I have made so little headway that it could not just come back, but with avengeance?

I disagree that you made little headway. I'm in poetic mode today so permit me to use an analogy.   

I think you climbed the mountain, got to the ridge just below the summit and took a photo of the misty view, thinking you'd reached the top. Since then you've not re-climbed the mountain 'in the flesh', as it were, instead you've taken out the photo and reminded yourself of the view from the 'top' and aimed to get back there any time OCD resurfaces. Perhaps you think, 'This is life free of OCD' and you stand happily on that ridge-just-below-the-summit and enjoy a rich, full life.  

Then the mist lifts and you find yourself staring at a steep hillside, not on the summit at all. You assume you're back at the bottom of the mountain, that somehow you must have slipped and fallen.   But you're still standing on your ridge-near-the-summit were you were living a happy life just moments before. 

All you have to do is start to walk-the-walk again, push on up to the true summit. Anyone who's ever climbed a mountain will tell you that realisation you're on a false summit makes your heart sink and the final push to the actual top seem a million times harder and further than it really is. But once you put the sandwiches away and get your aching muscles going again you fall back into step with surprising ease.

In other (less poetic  ) words, I think you buy into a core belief that isn't at odds with living a full life for much of the time. But when you encounter a situation that opposes the belief the mountain side suddenly looms out of the mist. Identify the core belief(s) that drive your OCD and do some cognitive work on them. Changing how you believe the world works (or how you think it 'ought' to work) dis-empowers OCD, turning it into rain off a duck's back. That's when you realise you're on the true summit, looking at recovery in glorious sunshine.  

(You brought out the writer in me today instead of the 'therapist'.)  

[PolarBear]

I don't know. But i suspect there is still work to be done that hasn't been done or needs to be done again.

[Avo]

Its an interesting point GBG, I have wondered similar myself. I would consider myself (apart from the odd blip) fairly good OCD wise currently. I do however do compulsions around topics related to the top of my hierarchy. I also seem to be suffering at the moment with incidents of intense intrusive thought / images. By that I mean the intrusive thoughts / images seem to come with massive anxiety and sometimes de-rail my day. I don't always succumb to ruminating and compulsions but it's close at times. 

 

I am wondering if I have accepted that I have dealt with the bulk of my OCD but am aware that I am still letting it boss my about on certain aspects? Am I fully recovered? I would say no. I speak as someone who has had about 4 or 5 sessions of CBT over the last 20 yrs. I would say that it's only in the last 2 yrs or so I have felt I have got anywhere near coping with OCD. 

[PolarBear]

Nice analogy snowy. You keep on being poetic.

[Isthisreality]

Ali Greymond is pretty clear. If you don't recover you are not doing the work. I am pretty confident that this obession about recovery is just another nasty dance from the OCD

She is not on meds btw

Edited March 14, 2018 by Isthisreality

[gingerbreadgirl]

3 minutes ago, snowbear said:

Born into an era before the internet, before CBT existed, before psychiatrists even used the name OCD , for most of my life I thought that kind of resigned adaptation was the only option. But, whatever we tell ourselves, in practise our expectations and hopes never lower and it hurts just as much every time.

I know and I forget sometimes how horrible it must have been for people living with OCD before there was the wealth of information and support there is now.  It must have felt incredibly lonely and frightening  There are many things nowadays to be grateful for.

 

4 minutes ago, snowbear said:

I disagree that you made little headway. I'm in poetic mode today so permit me to use an analogy.  

That was very poetic - and made a lot of sense.  But in many ways I think it did feel like falling right down the mountain! - and then a bit further into the village with all the mean villagers gathered round with pitch forks   But I do understand what you're saying about having contented myself with the "false" summit for a long time, without addressing a number of rumbling issues which I think have contributed to this. And I guess those are the issues I need to address, the ones which are not necessarily OCD obessions but do underpin them.

[gingerbreadgirl]

6 minutes ago, Avo said:

Its an interesting point GBG, I have wondered similar myself. I would consider myself (apart from the odd blip) fairly good OCD wise currently. I do however do compulsions around topics related to the top of my hierarchy. I also seem to be suffering at the moment with incidents of intense intrusive thought / images. By that I mean the intrusive thoughts / images seem to come with massive anxiety and sometimes de-rail my day. I don't always succumb to ruminating and compulsions but it's close at times. 

 

I am wondering if I have accepted that I have dealt with the bulk of my OCD but am aware that I am still letting it boss my about on certain aspects? Am I fully recovered? I would say no. I speak as someone who has had about 4 or 5 sessions of CBT over the last 20 yrs. I would say that it's only in the last 2 yrs or so I have felt I have got anywhere near coping with OCD. 

I'm glad to hear you're doing fairly well Avo - although I am sorry you are getting intrusive images at the moment.  I hope you manage to defeat those final bits of OCD bossing you about x

[gingerbreadgirl]

4 minutes ago, Isthisreality said:

 If you don't recover you are not doing the work. I am pretty confident that this obession about recovery is just another nasty dance from the OCD

 

I appreciate you replying but I do object slightly to this.  I work really hard, I do CBT pretty much every day, I walk the walk, as much as I can anyway, granted sometimes I have failed spectacularly with compulsions but I always get up and try again.  And this really isn't an obsession about recovery, I think it's normal human emotion.

I have read some of Ali Greymond and not totally convinced by what she says. 

[Isthisreality]

1 minute ago, gingerbreadgirl said:

I appreciate you replying but I do object slightly to this.  I work really hard, I do CBT pretty much every day, I walk the walk, as much as I can anyway, granted sometimes I have failed spectacularly with compulsions but I always get up and try again.  And this really isn't an obsession about recovery, I think it's normal human emotion.

I have read some of Ali Greymond and not totally convinced by what she says. 

You need to do it every day. 

[gingerbreadgirl]

Just now, Isthisreality said:

You need to do it every day. 

I just said I do it every day. 

[gingerbreadgirl]

And honestly this isn't even what I mean really.  I know I will get over this rough patch.  I know that, I don't think it will be like this forever.  But I have no confidence in it not coming back, again and again.

[Isthisreality]

15 minutes ago, gingerbreadgirl said:

I just said I do it every day. 

You said "pretty much".

The thing is that it is pretty straightforward actually. It is in some way a blessing to  have OCD and not another condition. If you don't feed it it will go away. The brain wants to save energy, the brain's highest priority is survival. We now have thoughts who the brain thinks is real. We "are in danger" so it reacts with feelings and makes us react. It doesn't make sense that it would keep sending feelings if we learned the brain those thoughts are not important. It just doesn't.  

But sure it could be that we forever need to be focused so we don't slip. But no, you wouldn't react with this fear if you were recovered. But i do think that someone with OCD would be able to get back to compulsions, because it seems to be something wrong with our filter.

 

Don't beat yourself up! You don't deserve it. You are working hard and you can't change what you did.  I wouldn't engage in this debate with yourself because OCD can latch on everything to make you react. OCD is shamless and can't be argued with.

 

Edited March 14, 2018 by Isthisreality

[BelAnna]

1 hour ago, gingerbreadgirl said:

I'm sorry for the defeatist title to this post.  I actually try never to be defeatist about this but I feel a bit like that now.  I know lots of people do recover - there are people on this forum who are testament to that - but I worry that I never will, not properly. I'm not complaining per se, I am very lucky to have a waxing and waning type and have been through long periods of time with relatively little OCD and for that I am grateful.  I know there are people who suffer without respite for years, and I can't imagine what that must be like.

Since joining this forum I've read every book I could get my hands on, I've done CBT, I've filled in theory A/theory B charts, I've done exposure til I'm blue in the face, I really think I understand the beast and I try to walk the walk - but still it comes back.  Last year I was tootling along, basically fine, enjoying life, things were good, I even thought that it was under control.  Then suddenly OCD hit SO hard, harder than it ever had done before, by miles - I felt like I'd totally lost control of my mind. How can it do that when I'd put so much work in? How can I have made so little headway that it could not just come back, but with avengeance?

In some ways I almost wish someone could just say to me: "yes, you will never fully beat this, you will go from episode to episode and that will suck, but there will be good times in between and there are worse things that could happen in life".  I could adjust my expectations and know that the next time will hit and I could adapt to that.  But I know people do recover and I have worked for that, I really have, and I guess it just bums me out a bit. 

 

Yes, I think that it is a fact that some people never recover- there have been sufferers who have developed OCD and lived with it until their death but perhaps even those people have acquired tools for coping with life with OCD and have had relationships/families, careers, hobbies, travelled and experienced good quality of life- sadly some might not. Obviously most of us on the forum would like to make our OCD as small as possible so that we can live life to the full and there are examples of a few ex-sufferers on the forum, who consider themselves recovered.

Some people have OCD for life, others have episodes with OCD and episodes without and still others recover completely- I think that the idea is to attack as much of our OCD as we can and fight it back as much as possible- if that means complete recovery then that's amazing and if it means that we only suffer shorter, milder periods of relapse/blips then that's really good too. 

I'm sorry you're feeling down about this

[gingerbreadgirl]

When I say do CBT, I meant actual written CBT, which I can't do every day because sometimes I need to, say, go to a wedding or I'm away for the weekend, but most mornings I get up early and I do CBT.  If you mean CBT in terms of mentally trying to do the right things, then definitely I do this every day, I think of little else.

I do appreciate your help with this and I appreciate your help.  I wouldn't have said I'm beating myself up though really (for once!) I don't really know how I could do it differently.

[gingerbreadgirl]

Just now, BelAnna said:

Yes, I think that it is a fact that some people never recover- there have been sufferers who have developed OCD and lived with it until their death but perhaps even those people have acquired tools for coping with life with OCD and have had relationships/families, careers, hobbies, travelled and experienced good quality of life- sadly some might not. Obviously most of us on the forum would like to make our OCD as small as possible so that we can live life to the full and there are examples of a few ex-sufferers on the forum, who consider themselves recovered.

Some people have OCD for life, others have episodes with OCD and episodes without and still others recover completely- I think that the idea is to attack as much of our OCD as we can and fight it back as much as possible- if that means complete recovery then that's amazing and if it means that we only suffer shorter, milder periods of relapse/blips then that's really good too. 

I'm sorry you're feeling down about this

Thanks BelAnna, this does make sense an you're right we should all do the best we can xx

[Isthisreality]

I hope you didn't see what i said as an insult. I am not doubting that you are working hard. But i have to admit i am also getting this tricky feeling you get when you are dancing with OCD. 

But it is really important you actually not are beating yourself up because of this, because that is just OCD. And i think you might experience fear now. Sure we could arguing about this, and sure it is a real question in some sense! But it is the because of the feelings i think you are experience, which makes me suspicious that this is just one of OCD's nasty sides.

Edited March 14, 2018 by Isthisreality