Do some people never recover?

[Bodger]

I think we also have to take into account the severity of OCD can vary from one to another.

[gingerbreadgirl]

3 hours ago, Bodger said:

I think we also have to take into account the severity of OCD can vary from one to another.

Yes that's true Bodger

[Isthisreality]

Are you refusing compulsions? How is it going in general?

[gingerbreadgirl]

me? At the moment, mostly yes, and generally things are better than they were a few months ago or even a couple of weeks ago.  Thanks for asking x

[lostinme]

Sorry for my late reply gbg, but I didn’t come on yesterday unfortunately I was really unwell ? I had a bad reaction to my antibiotics 

My feelings are that you need to 100% categorically believe that recovery is possible  dispelling the negativity altogether  whilst you carry negativity you are keeping OCD still present in your life. 

My belief surrounding this is because someone without OCD also get intrusive thoughts, they can’t stop them the same as we can’t , however it’s how they react to them, they see them a silly thought and just dismiss them straight away. But let’s just ask? If they did react the same as we do and immediately questioned that thought and then doubted themselves? Would this lead to OCD ? Hence why the differing ages to when it started ? When you really think about it, all of our OCD started by that one very first intrusive thought that we reacted to and then hence we spiralled down our OCD road, the more we doubted and questioned the one thought, the more we questioned the others too and the snowball effect started. 

So to me we are working to get to the point of a non OCD sufferer and how they see and react to their thoughts? So the cognitive side is essential to understand and change how we see and react to our intrusive thoughts. We need to see them as nothing more than an intrusive thought 

 

 

[Isthisreality]

1 minute ago, lostinme said:

Sorry for my late reply gbg, but I didn’t come on yesterday unfortunately I was really unwell ? I had a bad reaction to my antibiotics 

My feelings are that you need to 100% categorically believe that recovery is possible  dispelling the negativity altogether  whilst you carry negativity you are keeping OCD still present in your life. 

My belief surrounding this is because someone without OCD also get intrusive thoughts, they can’t stop them the same as we can’t , however it’s how they react to them, they see them a silly thought and just dismiss them straight away. But let’s just ask? If they did react the same as we do and immediately questioned that thought and then doubted themselves? Would this lead to OCD ? Hence why the differing ages to when it started ? When you really think about it, all of our OCD started by that one very first intrusive thought that we reacted to and then hence we spiralled down our OCD road, the more we doubted and questioned the one thought, the more we questioned the others too and the snowball effect started. 

So to me we are working to get to the point of a non OCD sufferer and how they see and react to their thoughts? So the cognitive side is essential to understand and change how we see and react to our intrusive thoughts. We need to see them as nothing more than an intrusive thought 

 

 

I agree. Because OCD is so tricky, shameless and can't be outsmarted. Do we need to be really really harsh and show it power. It's the only thing we got. 

If one is recovered can the still get thoughts but it will not come with that extreme fear if fear at all. Just a nagging feeling, sure we maybe always need to be aware but no not this intense fear. 

[lostinme]

We need to get to a stage where we don’t even acknowledge it all and just let it go 

[gingerbreadgirl]

22 minutes ago, lostinme said:

Sorry for my late reply gbg, but I didn’t come on yesterday unfortunately I was really unwell ? I had a bad reaction to my antibiotics 

 

sorry to hear you've been unwell Lost I hope you're feeling a little better today?

 

22 minutes ago, lostinme said:

My feelings are that you need to 100% categorically believe that recovery is possible  dispelling the negativity altogether  whilst you carry negativity you are keeping OCD still present in your life.

This is so true and exactly how I thought about it until recently (and still do in many ways, I guess I just had a bit of a bad mood about it all yesterday!!)

 

22 minutes ago, lostinme said:

My belief surrounding this is because someone without OCD also get intrusive thoughts, they can’t stop them the same as we can’t , however it’s how they react to them

 

I agree it is in the reaction.  I think one reason this relapse has scared me, especially the back end of last year, is that I felt genuinely out of control in how I reacted to it.  I knew I shouldn't be ruminating, confessing, googling etc but I felt like I was powerless to stop.  Obviously this isn't the case but it was very powerful.  I knew all the stuff I should be doing, this wasn't new to me, but I felt like I'd lost control and I don't really know how I would stop that feeling if it happened again in future, which makes me worry that it is unavoidable.

Edited March 15, 2018 by gingerbreadgirl

[taurean]

16 minutes ago, gingerbreadgirl said:

Obviously this isn't the case but it was very powerful.  I knew all the stuff I should be doing, this wasn't new to me, but I felt like I'd lost control and I don't really know how I would stop that feeling if it happened again in future, which makes me worry that it is unavoidable.

Now this is interesting GBG. Because when I worked through the downward arrow technique with a therapist, to establish what my OCD core belief was, the result was "fear of losing control". 

[lostinme]

4 minutes ago, gingerbreadgirl said:

sorry to hear you've been unwell Lost I hope you're feeling a little better today?

This is so true and exactly how I thought about it until recently (and still do in many ways, I guess I just had a bit of a bad mood about it all yesterday!!)

I agree it is in the reaction.  I think one reason this relapse has scared me, especially the back end of last year, is that I felt genuinely out of control in how I reacted to it.  I knew I shouldn't be ruminating, confessing, googling etc but I felt like I was powerless to stop.  Obviously this isn't the case but it was very powerful.  I knew all the stuff I should be doing, this wasn't new to me, but I felt like I'd lost control and I don't really know how I would stop that feeling if it happened again in future, which makes me worry that it is unavoidable.

Not feeling to great  but much better than I did yesterday, they have stopped my antibiotics, I always have adverse reactions to drugs unfortunately 

That’s good  I think this is the only way we should see it 

The problem is ? When we have a relapse it is caused by a (trigger) ( meaning the cognitive work wasn’t fully understood, because otherwise this trigger wouldn’t have brought meaning) that very first initial intrusive thought again ? we question it, we doubt ourselves and then begins the viscous cycle. I think it’s more intense when we have a relapse because we fear what’s ahead of us because we have been there so many times and it’s the last place we want to be. 

 

[snowbear]

44 minutes ago, lostinme said:

So to me we are working to get to the point of a non OCD sufferer and how they see and react to their thoughts. So the cognitive side is essential to understand and change how we see and react to our intrusive thoughts.

My thoughts exactly.  

[lostinme]

To me OCD starts at that one very first intrusive thought that we question and place importance on  it then escalates from the first thought to the 2nd and so on, just a slippery slope, we then begin to change our behaviour and thoughts to protect us from what we percieve as a fear. These safety seeking behaviours then instill beliefs that we have something to fear from our thoughts. If we hadn’t acknowledged that very first thought, questioned ourselves and doubted ourselves or placed importance on it, would we have OCD now ? I don’t believe we would? 

So to me we need to change our beliefs and behaviours to our thoughts and on how we associate ourselves to these thoughts? 

[gingerbreadgirl]

19 minutes ago, lostinme said:

To me OCD starts at that one very first intrusive thought that we question and place importance on  it then escalates from the first thought to the 2nd and so on, just a slippery slope, we then begin to change our behaviour and thoughts to protect us from what we percieve as a fear. These safety seeking behaviours then instill beliefs that we have something to fear from our thoughts. If we hadn’t acknowledged that very first thought, questioned ourselves and doubted ourselves or placed importance on it, would we have OCD now ? I don’t believe we would? 

So to me we need to change our beliefs and behaviours to our thoughts and on how we associate ourselves to these thoughts? 

this does make total sense, thanks Lost x

[lostinme]

10 minutes ago, gingerbreadgirl said:

this does make total sense, thanks Lost x

I’m not sure if this as helped you at all gbg? If it was just so simple to just stop it or stop thinking this way, we would all be free. Unfortunately we have to undo or unlearn our learned behaviours towards them first and disassociate the importance we place on them before we can start to move forward  x 

[PolarBear]

I consider myself revovered. I've never really talked about this, but once i got educated on OCD, I was for a time hypervigilant of nearly every thought, checking each out to see if it could be intrusive.

I'll tell you, it is quite exhausting. This didn't last too long. I told myself this behavior was crazy and almost as bad as reacting to the thoughts with compulsions. So i weaned myself off the hypervigilance. It took practice but i became very good at leaving my mind to wander but recognizing an intrusive thought when it struck and literally not skipping a beat.

Do you always have to be vigilant? No. You train yourself what to do. It's there when you need it.

Edited March 15, 2018 by PolarBear

[taurean]

Exactly so Bear. 

I am no longer on edge, worrying about encountering a trigger or experiencing an intrusion. 

If they might happen to occur, I simply gently ease them away as they no longer have adverse meaning or power because of the CBT work I have done. 

[lostinme]

13 minutes ago, PolarBear said:

I consider myself revovered. I've never really talked about this, but once i got educated on OCD, I was for a time hypervigilant of nearly every thought, checking each out to see if it could be intrusive.

I'll tell you, it is quite exhausting. This didn't last too long. I told myself this behavior was crazy and almost as bad as reacting to the thoughts with compulsions. So i weaned myself off the hypervigilance. It took practice but i became very good at leaving my mind to wander but recognizing an intrusive thought when it struck and literally not skipping a beat.

Do you always have to be vigilant? No. You train yourself what to do. It's there when you need it.

Yes I totally agree with you  with what you have said in your previous posts I believe this to be true PolarBear  you give me 100% belief and the inspiration to keep going   It’s all to do with learning new behaviours and lots of practice. I think this is the final stage to me? to stop the hypervigillance to every thought? 

You should be really proud of what you’ve achieved, you are a great inspiration to us all. 

Edited March 15, 2018 by lostinme
Didn’t finish

[PolarBear]

Aw thanks lost. That's really nice.

[lostinme]

Just now, taurean said:

Exactly so Bear. 

I am no longer on edge, worrying about encountering a trigger or experiencing an intrusion. 

If they might happen to occur, I simply gently ease them away as they no longer have adverse meaning or power because of the CBT work I have done. 

That’s great news Roy  you’ve done so well, you should be really proud of what you have achieved 

But it’s got me thinking ? dont we need to get to a stage where we don’t have to gently ease ourselves away from the thought or the trigger? 

[lostinme]

2 minutes ago, PolarBear said:

Aw thanks lost. That's really nice.

Your more than welcome PolarBear  to get where you are today, as took courage, hardwork and determination, so you truly are an inspiration  

I would like to think one day that I can achieve this too

[taurean]

15 minutes ago, lostinme said:

That’s great news Roy  you’ve done so well, you should be really proud of what you have achieved 

But it’s got me thinking ? dont we need to get to a stage where we don’t have to gently ease ourselves away from the thought or the trigger? 

In time it happens automatically lost, because it is a new learned behaviour.

Beyond that, I would think the intrusions wouldn't come, or if they did they would just be standard intrusive thoughts that everyone experiences. 

[lostinme]

But shouldn’t we be able to see a trigger or have an intrusion and simply be there with it and not ease ourselves away? This then neutralises the fear we associate with it? 

My thinking is though ? intrusions will always be present, but not so frequent because we are not giving them importance? 

Im not sure that there is standard intrusions though? I thought everyone experienced the same sort of bizarre intrusive thoughts, but they don’t acknowledge them with any importance? 

[PolarBear]

Everyone has oddball thought that just pop into their heads. Normally people are quick to say, well that's rubbish, and cintinue in with what they were doing. Because the mind is right away not focussing on these errant thoughts, they don't stick.

[Franklin12]

I sometimes wonder on the same line, do we ever truly come to believe what we are retraining our brains to believe? I really know what I’m supposed to think about things and I can tell myself those things, but I don’t FEEL like I really believe what I’m telling myself. If I’m honest with myself those things still FEEL important. I don’t want to believe those things, and objectively they don’t matter to me, and if my fears happened to someone else I would say all the right things and truly believe what I was saying to them. But it just doesn’t feel true when applied to me. If that makes any sense. 

[Franklin12]

I feel like I have an issue with how I feel about things, rather than the things themselves.

Edited March 15, 2018 by Franklin12