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Self-Sabotage and Status Obsessions


Guest SurfRider

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Guest SurfRider

I'm ready to speak more on this now. I think there's a good chance that my self-sabotage habit is actually OCD, and I'll explain how. Whenever I am in a situation where I am starting to become successful, or where I could be successful, I experience intrusive and unwanted thoughts saying that the success I am having is wrong or dangerous, which causes me great anxiety. The compulsion that neutralizes the anxiety caused by these thoughts is to fail at what I'm trying to do. Just like I used to have the obsession that my hands were dirty and I felt compelled to wash my hands to neutralize the anxiety, when I become successful I am obsessed that the status and success I am having is wrong or dangerous, so I feel compelled to fail, which neutralizes the anxiety. After the failure, I do have the discomfort of having failed, but at least the anxiety is gone. I will give some examples.



If I hit two good tennis serves in a row, I then get intrusive unwanted fears about becoming too successful, and I begin to think to myself, "I'm going to hit the ball into the net," accompanied by an urge to hit the ball into the net. If I think in my mind, "I'm going to hit the ball into the net, I'm going to hit the ball into the net," what do you think happens? Yes, I hit the ball into the net. This neutralizes the anxiety.



Often when I catch a wave in surfing and am in the process of popping up on my board, I think to myself, "I'm going to fall." I try to fight this thought by saying to myself, "Don't fall, don't fall, don't fall." And what do you think happens when I repeat to myself, "Don't fall, don't fall, don't fall"? That's right. I fall. If I distract myself with some other thought, I can usually pop up and ride the wave just fine.



In my last two relationships, I had the intrusive unwanted thoughts and feelings that being in a relationship with an attractive woman was too much status for me. From day one in those relationships I had the incessant feeling, "She's going to dump me. She's going to dump me. She's going to dump me." And what did she do? She dumped me.



So I think that the obsessions I experience are intrusive thoughts claiming that success and status are wrong or dangerous, and the compulsion that neutralizes the anxiety associated with these thoughts is failure. It's possible that these obsessions came from my family of origin. I come from a family of underachievers, a long line of talented people who never could get their act together long enough to capitalize on their talents. I also think that my obsession about the danger of being high-status is linked to my sexual avoidance obsessions. Being higher status leads to more sexual opportunities. So maintaining relatively low status has been a way for me to avoid sexual opportunities.



I think that my self-sabotage is OCD. A very sneaky form of OCD. Sneaky, sneaky OCD.



The first thing I'm going to try is to go surfing and try to distract myself when I'm popping up and having the intrusive thoughts about falling. I'll relabel the thoughts as OCD and not try to fight them. I'll refocus my attention on something else, like a surfing technique I'm working on. Or perhaps I will do some mindfulness by noticing the beauty of being out in the ocean. The purpose is not to make the thought about falling go away. The purpose is to let the thought exist without engaging with it, and then turning my attention to the things that I value.


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I think I understand what you're getting at here, SurfRider. I think I get something similar to you (or have done in the past) - or similar to an extent anyway. For example I have always had a huge issue with feeling like I am not deserving of things. When I was a kid, if I really wanted something, a present say, and then I got it, I would feel intense anxiety around it and get an urge to get rid of it or destroy it, even if I really wanted it (in fact especially if I really wanted it).

In fact I recently got something like this which tarnished a good moment for me - my partner very recently proposed to me, and I had absolutely no doubt that my answer was yes (I adore my partner) BUT I got a very strong urge to say 'no', because I felt bad for getting something so good, I felt like I didn't deserve it. Luckily I didn't give in to that urge - but I do get what you mean.

I think your plan for surfing is a good one. It seems to me you have identified something important, and that knowledge will empower you to act on it. You've identified your obsession, your compulsions... now you just need to get to work. xx

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I think success feels dangerous to me also. I feel guilt and I feel anxiety about being resented by other people for it when I think about it.

And also, mostly, success, especially financial success is a very strong form of power. With great power, comes great responsibility. I fear responsibility.

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Guest SurfRider

For example I have always had a huge issue with feeling like I am not deserving of things.

I think success feels dangerous to me also. I feel guilt and I feel anxiety about being resented by other people for it when I think about it.

And also, mostly, success, especially financial success is a very strong form of power. With great power, comes great responsibility. I fear responsibility.

The tricky part for me here is to tease out the difference between fear of success as a matter of low self-esteem, and fear of success as an OCD obsession (though I think that the obsession form could have been trigged by the self-esteem form.) The treatment for each is quite different. Since I feel like I have decent self-esteem and I feel I deserve good things in my life, I would attribute my difficulties in success to the OCD form. For low-self esteem, the traditional psychoanalysis technique (exploring childhood issues etc.) seems to be the preferred treatment, though people from the CBT school of thought might prefer CBT. For the OCD form, the treatment would be mindfulness CBT.

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I was recommended traditional CBT for low self esteem by my therapist, and it absolutely did not work for me in any way shape or form. In fact it made it worse. I am now convinced that it was an OCD problem (at least primarily) - and by treating it as OCD (i.e. resisting analysis, rumination etc) and not engaging with it, it has vastly improved.

I think - from what you've said - this sounds like more of an OCD issue. I would also be careful about analysing the whole thing too much. It is important to get to the bottom of things - but analysing it too much can be an OCD trait in itself.

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Guest SurfRider

I feel like I made a little progress here. I used a strategy from The Happiness Trap by Russ Harris, which is to "change the genre" of your intrusive unwanted thoughts. For example, when the obsession comes, you might change the words to sound like a western, or science fiction, or a soap opera. When I was out surfing today, and when I had caught a wave and was about to pop up, I thought to myself in my best western drawl, "You're going to fall, partner." And other times when I was about to pop up, I thought to myself in my best soap opera drama queen voice, "You're going to fall. But you wouldn't understand!" And my surfing improved - I only fell once today while popping up, whereas I usually fall three or four times because of self-sabotaging OCD. And then after I stood up, instead of focusing on not falling, I focused on improving my surfing technique, which today was working on staying in the top half of the wave.

I've also been lifting weights about four times a week for the last month, and I could feel a real improvement today in my strength and endurance. Today was probably one of my best surfing days yet.

But OCD wasn't done with me. When I decided it was time to be done surfing for the day, I said to myself, "One more wave." That's where OCD often gets me: the last one of whatever I'm doing. It's gotta be perfect or the whole thing is ruined. So as I paddled out, I thought to myself that whether or not I fall on takeoff, it's OK. I caught the wave, did the soap opera voice in my head, stood up, and rode the wave in.

OCD still isn't done with me. I think the worst is yet to come when facing these obsessions, which will probably happen when I get a sexual offer. That's going to be way different than standing up on a surfboard. But I feel like today was a real victory, and it outlined a strategy I can use in dealing with status obsessions.

Edited by SurfRider
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Guest SurfRider

Distraction time! I'm studying for a test that will be on Tuesday. I'm doing well in this class right now, and I'm not too worried about the test. Which is making me worried. My status OCD is triggered when I am doing well at something. So I am finding it difficult to concentrate on studying. I keep wanting to do something else. Anything else. One of my favorite distractions is all the election news. Others are the surf report, or various topics in psychology. They're all compulsions. I find the subject matter of this class quite interesting. So why do I keep getting distracted? It's avoidance. I am avoiding the status of doing well in the class.

My parents dragged me into a therapist's office when I was a teenager because they thought I had ADD. None of the ADD therapy or medication helped me. I don't think I have ADD. I think that my distractibility is an avoidance compulsion to avoid the status of being successful. Which is still happening.

Edited by SurfRider
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Guest SurfRider

Well, OCD got me on this, and I feel pretty down. I took a test today, and I went into it feeling quite well-prepared. I had felt the OCD attacking me as I was studying, trying to distract me so I didn't score well. But I've done well on the homework and I felt pretty confident with the material. I knew much of what would be on it and I knew how to solve the problems. But while I was taking the test, I screwed up the arithmetic on one of the problems I'd practiced several times and couldn't find the mistake, so all of my subsequent answers were wrong. And I left the last problem blank because I'd never seen it before, but I was told after the test that the problem was in the book. It was an open-book test, and I totally missed it.

I feel defeated. I was doing well in the class and went into the test feeling prepared, but I didn't do nearly as well as I'd hoped. I don't think I did terrible, but I don't think I did well. My mind was clouded with OCD while I was taking the test. I didn't have the mental clarity to see that the last problem in the test was in the book. I felt anxious and mentally scrambled. I haven't gotten my score yet. But I'm pretty angry about it. I was doing so well, and OCD ruined it. Just like OCD always does.

Maybe I need to find a new therapist. Maybe I need to get on some medication to take the edge off the anxiety. I am also angry that therapists have misdiagnosed me for so long. It is OCD. It is not ADD. It is not depression or schemas or mood disorders. It is OCD. I'm pretty mad. I worked hard and studied hard, and I had this one in the bag. Then OCD robbed me in the same way that it always robs me. I feel robbed of my life.

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SurfRider, I hear that you're upset but let's put this into perspective. I doubt very much that your test result is going to ruin your life. It's a lesson that you can learn from. Trust yourself that you can get through this like you've done before. Have you tried controlled breathing?

I was going to post that I really like your positive attitude and that it sounds like you've decided to make some changes and that's great. That's the side of you that you need to draw on now. We can't ride the wave forever. Every now and then we wipe out (or whatever the surfing term is). It's going to happen. But we swim back up and tread water until we can get up on that board again, like you always do. Maybe some surfing visualization would be useful during a test?

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Guest SurfRider

Thanks Adele. I am still upset, both for the real effect of this personal failure and for the symbolic effect of it. Yes, I will very likely pass the class, but I probably won't get an A. The real effect is that I hope to work at NASA, which is an agency that is both small and popular, so it will be very competitive to get in, and my grades will matter. I could have taken a different class that would have been an easy A, but I took a risk and decided to take a more interesting and applicable class that wouldn't be an easy A. Now I am not sure that was the right decision. That's how the educational system works. They don't care what you know. They care about your grades. That's why I'm thinking I should have taken the class that was the easy A.

The symbolic effect is that I have failed in this same way before, over and over. I didn't recognize it as OCD before. But it's that depressing, hopeless, scary feeling I get when I know that I've shot myself in the foot again by acting in a self-defeating way. This time I did better in my preparation for the test than I have in the past. I thought I was pushing OCD back. But it snuck in and got me. I botched the test by making silly mistakes. The kinds of mistakes the OCD pushes me to make. It's so insidious and sneaky.

I have the same problem here that I have with my other obsessions: doing ERP is very difficult because the triggering events are relatively rare, even though they are very important. Since exams only happen once every month or two, I only have an opportunity to do the ERP once every month or two. I get major anxiety and have OCD with final exams. And those only happen once every three months. So doing ERP once a month or once every three months is not going to help me get over OCD very fast. But what else can I do, because the exams only happen once every month or two?

It's the same problem I have with my relationship obsessions and my sexual avoidance obsessions. I only meet a woman I really click with once every year or two, so that means that I get to do ERP maybe once a year. That's a very inefficient way to do ERP. I am wiling to face any terrifying situation to get over the OCD. I'll face it. But it's very hard re-create these scenarios - like a real final exam or a real sexual offer - so that I can do ERP. I'm very frustrated because the opportunities to actually do the ERP are so rare.

Doing the ERP on my surfboard was easy. I could do it repeatedly. I got about a dozen chances to do it last weekend, and I have a dozen chances this weekend if the weather is good. But I don't have same opportunities with exams and with women. An exam comes along every month or two, and a girlfriend comes along every year or two. I'm very frustrated because I want to do the ERP, but the opportunities to do it are so rare. And I'm still frustrated about my last exam. Maybe I will feel better when I get my score. Maybe I won't. I'll find out.

Edited by SurfRider
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Guest SurfRider

I feel like I've had some disappointments in this area in last few days. I got my test back, and my grade was a B+. It's a passing grade, but something of a disappointment, and probably a disappointment to the professor as well, because I've gotten to know him a little and we have many common scientific interests.

Surfing was pretty rough today too. Last week I got at least ten good rides in, but today I got three or four, and I fell several times. Conditions were rougher today than last week, but I expected a little more of myself.

I'm not sure what's causing all this. OCD takes revenge on me when I defy its demands, so I think that's part of it.

Maybe I need to accept that the intrusive thoughts will never never go away, and the anxiety will never go away. Sometimes I feel like I want to wait until the thoughts go away and the anxiety goes away before I do something. Maybe they will never go away.

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  • 2 weeks later...
Guest SurfRider

Well, it was a surfer's playground on the ocean today. Good waves, good weather. I decided not to try the strategy I used a couple weeks ago with changing the genre of my intrusive thoughts. That strategy was effective temporarily, which told me that it was indeed the intrusive thoughts that were sabotaging me. But it's very hard to sustain that intrusive thought-scrambling. As soon as I stop doing it, the intrusive thoughts come back. Today I tried something different, because I started sabotaging myself and falling on take-off again. So I tried the mindfulness approach. I decided to just notice the thoughts. Right when I catch a wave, there's like a two-second critical moment where I am filled with both exhilaration and panic. That's the moment when I need to stand up, and that's the moment when I'm most likely to fall.

During that critical moment, a lot of things run through my mind, and that's the time that OCD sneaks in and gets me. So I decided to just notice my thoughts in that moment. This strategy was useful in helping me to not fall so much, and I got some good rides in today, including probably the longest dow-the-line ride on an green wave I've ever gotten. So that was good. But there was a lot of baggage in addition to the OCD. The other thoughts amounted to, "If I don't stand up on this wave, I'll never impress a woman and I'll never get married and I'll be alone and bitter for my whole life." In my mind I've very much tied my skills and accomplishments, including surfing, to finding a life partner. I don't know how much of that is related to how people actually find life partners. Since I see this as mostly an OCD issue that is related to dating, I'm hoping for comments that are focused on OCD and not on dating advice :original:

Edited by SurfRider
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  • 2 weeks later...
Guest SurfRider

Yeah, this happened this weekend. I got the flu on Thursday, and I missed two days of school. So another teaching assistant had to accommodate the students who were supposed to show up to my review session, which made him stay an extra hour on Friday night, and now he's mad at me. I had major anxiety trying to do my homework yesterday and today, and now I'm not going to finish it. My research project also mysteriously stopped working. All of this, and the last week of classes for the quarter is next week. Things were going along well, and I was fighting OCD, and it seemed that things were under control. And then OCD swoops in right at the last minute and destroys my hard work. It always does. I'm not in a terrible position, but I feel pretty defeated.

You may say that getting sick with the flu is not OCD. But think about the timing for a minute. Why did I get sick right at the end of the quarter, and when I had things under control? I believe that OCD actually has the power to make me get sick right at a crucial moment. That's the kind of force I'm up against.

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  • 2 weeks later...
Guest SurfRider

Maybe people read this thread and say to themselves, "Ugh, First World problems." But it's real and important to me, and this thread functions as a kind of journal for me for progress in this area.

I feel like I had some success today with this, even if the success was mostly symbolic. I got probably 12 or 15 good rides on my surfboard today and I didn't even fall once. And I improved my technique. It was a good day on the surf. Granted, the waves were friendly today and the ocean surface was glassy, but still, I have often sabotaged myself in the past and fallen for no good reason.

The tool that helped me the most was thinking to myself that the thoughts about falling would never go away. The point is not to make the thoughts go away. I decided to live with the thoughts, and it worked pretty well.

Towards the end of my session, I was thinking to myself that I hadn't fallen yet. That's the point where I would often experience stronger thoughts about falling, and I would try to push them away, which would cause me to fall. So I decided to live with the thoughts. And I decided that the point of surfing was not to not fall. The point was to surf and have fun. If I fell, that would be OK. And I would live with all those kinds of thoughts. But I made it through my last ride without falling.

Of course, next time I surf, I'll feel the urge to keep the "perfection" streak going. I'll want have another "perfect" session. I will have to relabel those thoughts as OCD, and remind myself that they are not going to go away, and that the purpose of surfing is to surf, not to not fall. Hopefully that will help. But I do fall, and I inevitably will, that will be OK.

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