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New Debate - OCD, Psychological or Physiological Condition?


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Ok so what I think is a little controversial but I'm basically of the view that the body and brain are essentially the same, both physiological entities affected by genetic and environmental factors. There is nothing separate or different or mysterious about the brain, and unexplained psychological processes are just as yet unexplained physiological processes, even if subtle, in my opinion. This is not to say they are genetic or untreatable, just that all psychological processes have a corresponding chemical process in the brain and are therefore physiological. I think future research will reveal a lot more about this, it is in its infant stage off development at the moment.

aaaand let the debate run!

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Guest heartplace

I would say psychological, but of course the anxiety that stems from OCD brings along physical health problems. And of course, any mental health problem is the sign of a physically unwell brain.

My question is...would you consider OCD to be an anxiety disorder or not?

The reason I ask is because the DSM-IV no longer considers OCD to be an anxiety disorder. Personally, I very much believe it is one.

Edited by heartplace
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I reckon it's a physiological problem initially.

I go with Jeffrey Schwartz.

i believe something is not functioning properly in the components of the frontal lobe of the brain, which leads to inpairment of the resolution of the activities of various parts of the brain when converted into active cognitive thinking..

This woulsd explain why OCD can occur through words, phrases, images, or dreams - but the final message is flawed - corrupted, twisted round, false or exaggerated..

This then leads to distress, anxiety - psychological issues - and that then leads to unwanted bodily reactions - stress and anxiety response - physiological reaction .

Roy

P.s. I love a good debate. :heart:

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I would say psychological, but of course the anxiety that stems from OCD brings along physical health problems. And of course, any mental health problem is the sign of a physically unwell brain.

My question is...would you consider OCD to be an anxiety disorder or not?

The reason I ask is because the DSM-IV no longer considers OCD to be an anxiety disorder. Personally, I very much believe it is one.

It is considered one in everything that I have read on anxiety disorders over the pond here. Pretty common to its manifestations would seem to be fear, and that fear is of something happening, already happened or might happen, and often alledgedly we would be held responsible for it. That triggers anxiety.

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Guest heartplace

I think the DSM-V made a mistake in classifying OCD as something other than an anxiety disorder.

I do too. I also thing it was a bit of a mistake for them to take out Asperger's Syndrome as a diagnosis altogether, considering I have it.

Asperger's and OCD go hand in hand for many people, including me. Evidence points to the idea that my OCD stemmed from it.

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Guest heartplace

It is considered one in everything that I have read on anxiety disorders over the pond here. Pretty common to its manifestations would seem to be fear, and that fear is of something happening, already happened or might happen, and often alledgedly we would be held responsible for it. That triggers anxiety.

You're right! It the US, though, the DSM-IV says that OCD is just "obsessive-compulsive", not anxiety. That doesn't even make sense to me...there's no way you can have OCD without the anxiety. If there is, I sure would like to know how. Lol

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Guest lauren415

I definitely think it's psychological...because without anti-psych meds my OCD is overkill. I may have an episode every once in a while on meds but for the most part it's non-existent

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Sure and its good lauren you are on that med.

But for me the route cause is physiological /neurological failure resulting in malfunction in communication in the brain causing wrong messages and resultant psychological distress.

Edited by taurean
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This then leads to distress, anxiety - psychological issues - and that then leads to unwanted bodily reactions - stress and anxiety response - physiological reaction .

You see I think it's the exact opposite and is, in my personal experience. Mine always starts with anxiety, I then think the anxiety increases, it is further fuelled by our own thoughts and cognitive response and then the obsessions become worse. I feel that the change in brain behaviour with the sticking, looping, repetition is as a result of extreme anxiety and distress rather than the initial cause.

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You're right! It the US, though, the DSM-IV says that OCD is just "obsessive-compulsive", not anxiety. That doesn't even make sense to me...there's no way you can have OCD without the anxiety. If there is, I sure would like to know how. Lol

The latest DSM is a work of fiction, clearly written by idiots with no experience of dealing with OCD. They also lump impulse control disorders like Kleptomania with OCD which is another example of lack of understanding.

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Mine manifests itself by response to a trigger. That raises an OCD thought, that thought sticks.

But I think the initial causation is the wrongly working brain, which causes the trigger.

Edited by taurean
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I would say psychological, but of course the anxiety that stems from OCD brings along physical health problems. And of course, any mental health problem is the sign of a physically unwell brain.

My question is...would you consider OCD to be an anxiety disorder or not?

The reason I ask is because the DSM-IV no longer considers OCD to be an anxiety disorder. Personally, I very much believe it is one.

That is not technically true. OCD used to be lumped together with other anxiety disorders. It was decided that OCD was sufficiently unique as to require its own group. OCD still in anxiety based but it is different enough from other anxiety disorders to be uniquely labelled in the DSM.

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It makes sense that it is physiological in origin, that there is a miswiring there somewhere that causes otherwise ordinary events and triggers to fire off our fight or flight response and make us freak out over relatively minor things.

But on the other hand, we know that those who really take on CBT and work hard can, over time, change their response to the negative stimuli so that it doesn't bother them so much. If it was physiological, how come we can fix it psychologically?

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If it was physiological, how come we can fix it psychologically?

Yes, that's the odd thing.

And why if it's a mis-wired brain did mine function perfectly normally for 21 years and then overnight change?

And if you apply the psychological changes/behaviours in an episode, you can flip it back round fairly quickly (with practise) If it's a brain malfunction, how so?

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I feel that the change in brain behaviour with the sticking, looping, repetition is as a result of extreme anxiety and distress rather than the initial cause.

I agree 100% and so do many of the OCD research experts. I strongly believe that my OCD is the result of life experiences. It is entirely logical that I would develop an anxiety disorder.

Anon

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Because the psychological tools can heal the "Brainlock" making the components of the frontal lobe function because the malfunction has learned another behaviour to right itself.

If we form new - correctly- working neurological pathways, then over time they become the right ones, and the old faulty one falls into disuse and loses its power. As PolarBear strikingly put it, it "dies of apathy".

I was reading Kylie Cloke's (outgoing chairman of OCD-UK's) introduction to last years OCD-UK annual conference programme. I previously read her story, I know how badly she suffered from OCD.

She states she has been free of OCD for several years now. Perhaps her experience is an example of my hypothesis above.

Edited by taurean
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She states she has been free of OCD for several years now. Perhaps her experience is an example of my hypothesis above.

Perhaps it's the result of a change of thoughts and reactions alone, then the anxiety recedes, the thoughts lessen etc

If we form new - correctly- working neurological pathways, then over time they become the right ones, and the old faulty one falls into disuse and loses its power

In my own experience this can happen within 48 hours or so (less sometimes) if you doggedly don't buy in to the wrong behaviours, compulsions etc.......that wouldn't occur by the brain being rewired/altered. To me, it's a change in the response to anxiety (not adding fuel to the fire), the anxiety lessens, the intrusions then lessen.

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I don't see that the anxiety can exist without a trigger- we talk about an anxiety response.

So it is not the cause but rather the effect.

Outside of OCD anxiety is triggered by a trauma or by one or more of 10 types of distorted thinking.

In OCD the trigger for the anxiety is the broken down brain neurotransmission, causing an anxiety response.

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In OCD the trigger for the anxiety is the broken down brain neurotransmission, causing an anxiety response.

Not necessarily, certainly not with me. It may differ from person to person but with me, anxiety always occurs first.

I don't see that the anxiety can exist without a trigger- we talk about an anxiety response.

Anxiety can occur for all manner of reasons, stress probably being the major (and most common) one. In my instance it was stress -> anxiety -> extreme anxiety -> obsessive intrusive thoughts.

In OCD the trigger for the anxiety is the broken down brain neurotransmission, causing an anxiety response.

It certainly didn't happen that way for me........the obsessions were a symptom of extreme anxiety. They didn't cause an anxiety response, they were a result of an anxiety response and worsened that response.

So it seems there isn't a One size Fits All......perhaps (as I'm sure there are) different responses but also, different personal interpretations of what happens.

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Not necessarily, certainly not with me. It may differ from person to person but with me, anxiety always occurs first.

I think its psychological as opposed to physiological but when you say the anxiety comes first were your first obsessions in no way linked to the stress in your life at the time, because that could be interpreted as a trigger. Hope you don't mind me asking. Edited by Gemma7
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