moral/non-religious scrupulosity OCD

[gingerbreadgirl]

Can anyone relate to this? This was one of my very earliest themes that popped up when I was around 13/14 and then dominated throughout my teen years. It still comes up from time to time and today I've got it bad. I won't really go into the details other than it relates to a family gathering yesterday - no point saying much more than that as I know the details really make no difference.

I am not at all religious and I don't believe in hell or divine judgement or anything like that; however I do find myself condemning myself very harshly and experiencing guilt for perceived wrongdoings an awful lot. I see myself as living on a set of scales, and on one side is the good I do, and on the other side is the harm I do, and if the scales tip towards harm (so the harm I do outweighs any good I do) then it makes me think things like, it would be better for me not to be alive. Please don't think I'm suicidal (I am not at all and usually I am pretty chipper, plus I could never do that to the people I love as then my harm scales would tip all the way over) but I sometimes find myself wishing I hadn't been born, and then this supposed harm I do would never have occurred and no one would be any the wiser. I don't feel like this very often (certainly much less these days than a few years ago).

Pleeeease don't reassure me or tell me I must be good because I care or anything like that (I know people who do that only mean well though )- it makes me really uncomfortable and just makes my OCD want to argue against it.

I guess I just want to know (a) does anyone else relate and (b) give me a kick up the a*** and tell me to deal with it!!

Thanks for reading x

[Symps07]

This is my big thing at the moment Ginger, so I can definitely relate.

I don't know about you, but the media/news doesn't help me much, there's always some appeal/tragedy/incident occurring that makes me question myself, the world, humanity, etc...

I guess you just have to work it like all OCD. What is the scale of your fear & what can you (key word here) realistically do about it, as opposed to what your OCD will say you 'must' do about it?

OCD's the same bully no matter what the scenario, you just have to find what's truly realistic for you to achieve no matter what the situation & live with the anxiety & the nagging thoughts until they fade away :original:

On the plus side, at least it shows you have a conscience

Edited July 5, 2015 by Symps07

[gingerbreadgirl]

thanks symps, and sorry to hear you're dealing with this too the media definitely doesn't help.

My main thing is that I worry I have inadvertently done or said something that has upset someone and it will have a big effect on them, and that I constantly go round doing these little acts of harm and they add up and they outweigh any good I do, if that makes sense. I monitor my emotions to make sure they are appropriate and 'good', and often they are not. When I was younger I was terrified I was a psychopath because I wasn't sad when my grandma died. I don't really think these things anymore, and I don't really believe in 'good' and 'bad' as absolute concepts, most days anyway, and I have done a whole TON of work with CBT on this in particular, but it does sometimes come back and bite me

Edited July 5, 2015 by gingerbreadgirl

[Symps07]

My main thing is that I worry I have inadvertently done or said something that has upset someone and it will have a big effect on them, and that I constantly go round doing these little acts of harm and they add up and they outweigh any good I do, if that makes sense.

Don't worry, it makes sense :original:

But what can you do? If you are not trying to offend or hurt someone & just speaking your mind, how can you avoid it? At the end of the day what offends a person? We are all different, what may offend one person, might not even register with another.

There is a comedian I really like called Steve Hughes, who does a great bit on 'Being Offended', it's on youtube if you want to check it out, I find it really apt!

But his point is what I said above, that what is offensive is subjective to the individual.

& at the end of the day is it any different to thinking you may have said something to incriminate yourself or to make you look foolish? I've had all three, but I'm starting to realise that I can only be who I am & I never try to harm or offend other people, but if I do, well, what can I do? I've not set out with that intent!

I monitor my emotions to make sure they are appropriate and 'good', and often they are not. When I was younger I was terrified I was a psychopath because I wasn't sad when my grandma died. I don't really think these things anymore, and I don't really believe in 'good' and 'bad' as absolute concepts, most days anyway

I don't know how I feel the majority of the time because my emotions feel so mixed up! I used to think I was sociopathic, because I didn't feel strongly about anything, or when I got hurt or in accidents, I never really felt that concerned about what was happening.

But then again, my OCD is so immense & the scope so wide, that I spend so much time dealing with it & the anxieties & moods that 'real' life almost becomes kind of a side show & I'm not really sure how to deal with it.

Edited July 5, 2015 by Symps07

[Franklin12]

Hey Ginger, at a micro level you've done the CBT, you have all the OCD tools. Have you tried taking a more macro level perspective? No matter how much you'd like to, you simply can't control everything. Even if you succeed in controlling some things, something will come along out of the blue that you didn't expect and catch you out that way. You've taken a very perfectionist stand against wrongdoing, and made it be completely unacceptable. If you keep that up, you'll end up drifting towards an extreme where, as you're already noticing, you'd rather not do things than risk messing up. You'll restrict your world more and more, and become more and more risk averse. The other extreme is also pretty undesriable - crashing around not caring about hurting people or causing harm, or whatever your particular fears are. So if you're going to lead a normal life, you HAVE to let go. Choose a middle path. Take some risks. You can't just become a person who does this over night, you have to cultivate courage. Courage comes by doing the stuff that makes you scared, by risking hurting someone's feelings, by actually hurting someone's feelings and feeling dreadful about it, but then getting up and carrying on rather than retreating back to your safe extreme where it's easier to never meet up with anyone. It's your choice. There isn't an easy way, there isn't a risk free way. You can't guarantee nothing bad will come of taking the middle path. But you can guarantee if you drift to the extreme end you will be less and less happy.

[gingerbreadgirl]

Thank you Symps and Franklin, really good advice all round xx

[Cub]

Hi Ginger

I think the nature of OCD in general is that it does cause us to put pressure on ourselves to be 'good' - I'm often compulsively praying to be 'good' and it's something I'm working on. Obviously you do care - people with OCD have strong consciences. It can be hard sometimes to deal with those thoughts and feelings that maybe we just shouldn't be around and I'm sorry that you're feeling that, because I know it's horrid. It's easy to think in black and white, but we're all human and we're all doing our best. At least we know we're not going to go out and cause any harm against anyone.

C x

[PolarBear]

My two cents: get rid of the scale.

[gingerbreadgirl]

thanks cub and polar, I know you're right x x

[Symps07]

& don't be too hard on yourself.

It can be so easy to look back at mistakes or trangressions we've done in the past (real or imagined), that we sometimes forget to look forward to all the good we can achieve in the present & the future or of the positive steps we can make for change :original:

[gingerbreadgirl]

thank you symps x