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Behaviors associated with uncertainty: GAD or OCD?


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I am noticing that my problematic behaviors, especially spending time with excessive research, is a need to deal with uncertainty. I know that uncertainty is a mark of anxiety which leaves me confused. Could you please tell me if this excessive research is a compulsion or a problem of anxiety itself? I do not know anymore if this is considered OCD or could be only GAD

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Guest anatta

People with GAD do have some compulsions too, like reassurance seeking, but their fears are about many different everyday concerns, like whether they will meet deadlines at work or pass tests. They don't get just one or several concerns that worry them for months or longer brfore changing. They also get bodily symptoms of anxiety, like headaches or stomach butterflies, significant enough that these symptoms are frequently what brings them to the doctor, rather than the emotion of anxiety. For some reason, people with OCD don't get these bodily symptoms to the extreme degree that people with GAD do.

Like most anxiety disorders, there is high comorbidity rate so it would not be unusual to have both, but research compulsions are not evidence one way or another.

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Guest eden1616

I have GAD, social anxiety and ocd (the last one is obvious) but i have noticed that i do get more pysical reactions when it starts off from the GAD than the ocd but then when they are all going off together it is horrible. However I think the researching is more likely to be ocd.

Edited by eden1616
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Thank you for your replies. Sometimes I get caught on the details and I want to know what is really my problem, but the fact is that this is not black and white, and in the end I have to limit the time I spend with the problematic behavior which we all know that it is not easy.

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Guest legend

Rule of thumb is if it feels like ocd then treat it as such

Slightly disagree annatta re anxiety symptoms and ocd, I had it

All she I was in grips of ocd !! Unable to eat , lost a stone in weight in a matter of weeks, constant nausea, everything associated with anxiety driven

by ocd

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I have had GAD many years ago and overcame it and now OCD and I agree with legend. My physical symptoms were just as bad when caused by Ocd. They arent as bad now as i am progressing with recovery but still the same feelings etc that i had with GAD.

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Guest anatta

For some reason, a certain number of bodily symptoms are required for a GAD diagnosis, and they aren't even mentioned in the criteria for OCD. I have wondered if the criteria for GAD are too stringent and people without bodily symptoms might benefit from the same treatments as those who meet the current criteria.

I've never worried excessively about everyday problems, but if I did, I'm sure I still wouldn't get bodily symptoms, because my body just doesn't work like that. I never get headaches, even when sleep deprived, hungover or when I used to fast for health reasons. Never get butterflies, never dizzy from anxiety although I get dizzy from low blood pressure. I once got so anxious I completely dissociated, lost awareness of where and who I was for a blissful 15 seconds, but STILL never got a headache or other somatic symptoms.

So yeah, I think it's quite likely that the requirement for somatic symptoms in GAD is a bad criterion, because people seem to vary in their tendency to experience anxiety's effects on the body whether they have OCD, excessive everyday worries as with GAD, or both.

Edited by anatta
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Guest eden1616

I do think it is different for everyone but i certainly get many pysical symptoms from anxiety. I shake, get dizzy, butterflies, stomach ache the whole lot.

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Slightly disagree annatta re anxiety symptoms and ocd, I had it

I slightly disagree that it's critical to differentiate. They are all part of an anxiety disorder. It all needs dealing with, one type isn't necessarily worse than the other. All the symptoms you describe Legend, I've had from both OCD and GAD.

There may be specifics to be dealt with OCD wise, exposure wise (particularly) But to me, the two often go hand in glove and should be worked with together (and in most cases) similarly.

Whether excessive research is a result of OCD or GAD (or [more probably] a mixture of both) they both need addressing and the remedy is pretty much the same.

In case you hadn't guessed....I'm not a great fan of labels. Particularly when they're so often inter-locked like a jigsaw.

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Guest anatta

I slightly disagree that it's critical to differentiate. They are all part of an anxiety disorder. It all needs dealing with, one type isn't necessarily worse than the other. All the symptoms you describe Legend, I've had from both OCD and GAD.

There may be specifics to be dealt with OCD wise, exposure wise (particularly) But to me, the two often go hand in glove and should be worked with together (and in most cases) similarly.

Whether excessive research is a result of OCD or GAD (or [more probably] a mixture of both) they both need addressing and the remedy is pretty much the same.

In case you hadn't guessed....I'm not a great fan of labels. Particularly when they're so often inter-locked like a jigsaw.

I agree when it comes to certain diagnoses that in my opinion should possibly not be separate disorders at all, like avoidant personality disorder and social anxiety disorder, where it appears that one simply describes severe cases of the other, and research backs this up. However I would not put GAD and OCD I'm this category because there is good evidence that there are different but overlapping things wrong with the brain in each disorder, and as a result, not all of the drugs that help one, help the other. For example, benzodiazapines are not recommended for OCD because the evidence suggests that for anything other than very short-term use, they're no better than placebo unless just used at night to aid sleep, whereas they are effective for GAD. Buspirone is another example: works for most people with GAD but only a subset of OCD patients respond better than anyone in the placebo group, so it should (if the prescriber knows any of the drug differences between anxiety disorders, which is not always the case) only be tried if alternatives with a higher response rate in OCD have failed.

So in this particular case it seems to me we have a genuine case of related, commonly comorbid but genuinely distinct disorders, but I do agree that in some other cases, the distinctions made between different diagnostic entities are arbitrary.

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Guest legend

I slightly disagree that it's critical to differentiate. They are all part of an anxiety disorder. It all needs dealing with, one type isn't necessarily worse than the other. All the symptoms you describe Legend, I've had from both OCD and GAD.

There may be specifics to be dealt with OCD wise, exposure wise (particularly) But to me, the two often go hand in glove and should be worked with together (and in most cases) similarly.

Whether excessive research is a result of OCD or GAD (or [more probably] a mixture of both) they both need addressing and the remedy is pretty much the same.

In case you hadn't guessed....I'm not a great fan of labels. Particularly when they're so often inter-locked like a jigsaw.

Most definitely !

I was merely saying that in my case the severe anxiety , was down to ocd.

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Hi Anatta

I was speaking more in terms of therapy rather than medication. However, although benzodiazapines may be used with GAD it should only be in the very short term or occasionally. So far as I understand NICE guidelines do not recommend their use for panic or anxiety

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Guest anatta

Hi Anatta

I was speaking more in terms of therapy rather than medication. However, although benzodiazapines may be used with GAD it should only be in the very short term or occasionally. So far as I understand NICE guidelines do not recommend their use for panic or anxiety

Yeah, the best style of CBT for both of them is probably the same. I just think it is important that people do get accurately diagnosed with OCD, GAD or both, because medications are frequently used and there are differences in which ones are effective and also in which ones doctors are likely to prescribe you, due to guidelines. NICE recommends benzodiazepines for GAD for two to four weeks during a crisis. It doesn't mention their use in OCD one way or another, but other medical bodies and several published papers specifically recommend against using benzodiazepines for OCD and PTSD even in the same circumstances that they do recommend them for GAD. Still many doctors all over the world, including the UK, commonly prescribe them for these conditions, unaware of the recommendations and evidence against it. Also, in the UK, if you're diagnosed with GAD, it will (in theory - assuming the doctor involved knows the guidelines) be harder to get prescribed an antipsychotic if you're diagnosed with GAD instead of OCD, as NICE recommends against antipsychotics in primary care for people with GAD, but recommend it after SSRIs, clomipramine and therapy have failed for OCD.

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Guest anatta

Most definitely !

I was merely saying that in my case the severe anxiety , was down to ocd.

By the way, in case it wasn't clear, when I explained that GAD is defined as involving a certain set of bodily symptoms and OCD doesn't have to have them, I didn't mean that the anxiety itself is more intense in GAD, or for that matter, in cases of OCD where people do have them. The point of my last post was that I don't think bodily symptoms are a reliable indicator of severity of anxiety, and therefore I suspect lots of people diagnosed with Anxiety Disorder Not otherwise Specified, are experiencing the same anxiety disorder on a neurological level to those with GAD - their bodies simply manifest anxiety differently.

For example, while I NEVER feel sick or get headaches unless ill with a bug (however sleep deprived I am, however however hungover I am, however big the lump on my head from an accident has been - I just don't get headaches) my OCD has been classed as severe by the first GP I saw, and I do manifest anxiety in other bodily ways, not recognised in the criteria for any anxiety disorder but recognised by doctors as triggered by anxiety.

For example, during my worst times with OCD, my hair falls out in clumps, leaving perfectly bald patches. That particular reaction to severe stess runs in my family. The OCD was also bad enough that I spent a lot of time hoping something would kill me soon and tried to find out if I could volunteer for dangerous medical experiments in the hope that they would kill me. As I mentioned before, I also went into a brief but severe dissociative state as a result of a phobia once. And through all of this I've never had stress headaches or nausea, or anxiety-related dizziness. It's probably genetic.

So to summarise, my point was just that while you must have certain somatic symptoms to be diagnosed with GAD, that should not be the case in my opinion, because it's in some people's genes not to get those symptoms as a result of anxiety, however much distress they're in.

Edited by anatta
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Guest Tricia

Rule of thumb is if it feels like ocd then treat it as such

Slightly disagree annatta re anxiety symptoms and ocd, I had it

All she I was in grips of ocd !! Unable to eat , lost a stone in weight in a matter of weeks, constant nausea, everything associated with anxiety driven

by ocd

The worst physical symptoms I ever had were when I had almost constant intrusive thoughts. Like you Legend, I was a wreck, struggling to eat etc.

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Rule of thumb is if it feels like ocd then treat it as such

Slightly disagree annatta re anxiety symptoms and ocd, I had it

All she I was in grips of ocd !! Unable to eat , lost a stone in weight in a matter of weeks, constant nausea, everything associated with anxiety driven

by ocd

Same here and I'd assume I don't suffer from GAD as I don't tend to worry excessively about rational, everyday things.

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Guest eden1616

The worst physical symptoms I ever had were when I had almost constant intrusive thoughts. Like you Legend, I was a wreck, struggling to eat etc.

I thought everyone with ocd had that all the time... I certainly do I just assumed. Wait so does that mean some of you guys don't have intrusive thoughts 24/7 cause I thought that was how it was for everyone. 0_0

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Guest anatta

I thought everyone with ocd had that all the time... I certainly do I just assumed. Wait so does that mean some of you guys don't have intrusive thoughts 24/7 cause I thought that was how it was for everyone. 0_0

Lots of people's OCD is episodic or fluctuates over time. I can go weeks or months without any OCD, and then a new obsession crops up. That's quite common. It then takes a few weeks to build up to the point where the rumination is constant (with the exception of temporary relief when taking methylphenidate). That's the point at which I dream about the obsession and my hair falls out.

Hopefully that cycle is in the past for me now...

Edited by anatta
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Guest eden1616

Lots of people's OCD is episodic or fluctuates over time. I can go weeks or months without any OCD, and then a new obsession crops up. That's quite common. It then takes a few weeks to build up to the point where the rumination is constant (with the exception of temporary relief when taking methylphenidate). That's the point at which I dream about the obsession and my hair falls out.

Hopefully that cycle is in the past for me now...

Oh ok I guess I should stop making assumptions :/.

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Guest Tricia

I thought everyone with ocd had that all the time... I certainly do I just assumed. Wait so does that mean some of you guys don't have intrusive thoughts 24/7 cause I thought that was how it was for everyone. 0_0

I assumed the same, Eden. I think it's a common mistake we make, thinking others are the same as us.

Anatta is right in what she says, but I also know that many people with intrusive thoughts (that focus on the same subject/s) are not constantly bombarded by them. They may have hours in the day when they don't have an intrusive thought at all. Mine were virtually none stop, even in my dreams. Oh, the relief when they stopped...

Edited by Tricia
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Guest eden1616

I assumed the same, Eden. I think it's a common mistake we make, thinking others are the same as us.

Anatta is right in what she says, but I also know that many people with intrusive thoughts (that focus on the same subject/s) are not constantly bombarded by them. They may have hours in the day when they don't have an intrusive thought at all. Mine were virtually none stop, even in my dreams. Oh, the relief when they stopped...

Mine are non stop it is quite tiring

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