Therapists who bully and threaten

[Guest Tricia]

I have heard of several incidents where therapists have been bullies, but I've just read the book My Story Living With OCD by Natalie Young and she was told she could either 'walk over the blood, or be dragged over it.'

This kind of approach disgusts and infuriates me. A dear friend of mine was treated appallingly by two therapists, and at the time they were also aware that he was dying of cancer and only had a few months to live.

I hope anyone here who encounters such behaviour will report the professional involved. All OCD experts state that therapy has to be voluntary. Not only is bullying and threatening unethical and cruel, but it is usually counterproductive.

Edited March 1, 2015 by Tricia

[Caramoole]

Fortunately, I've never personally heard anyone report this. For those who are already nervous about seeing a therapist I hope that they won't be frightened or put off by this as I'm sure it is pretty rare.

Clearly if such conduct is experienced it should be reported. However, therapy will ask that we face things that we've rather avoid.

[taurean]

My first therapist - an eminent psychiatrist - was adamant I had to spend two weeks "flooding " - exposing myself to violent themes - and then I would habituate and get better.

I am a strong personality and stared at him and told him why I considered that approach totally wrong in my case.

He vehemently disagreed but faced with my adamant refusal agreed I had a choice. Sensibly we spent some time summarising what I had learned from the CBT then closed down his therapy.

No subsequent professional I consulted had proposed this approach - they all favoured disengagement and indifference supported by graded hierarchy exposure in bite size chunks.

Therapists listen to our stories and determine a strategy frlm standard procedures.

I was glad I was strong enough to stand up to that psychiatrist.

But I do thknk that the majority of therapy follows these quite standard basic rules whatever the flavour of OCD so incidents of disagreement should be rare.

[Guest Tricia]

Fortunately, I've never personally heard anyone report this. For those who are already nervous about seeing a therapist I hope that they won't be frightened or put off by this as I'm sure it is pretty rare.

Clearly if such conduct is experienced it should be reported. However, therapy will ask that we face things that we've rather avoid.

The reason I started this thread was not to make anyone nervous, but to let people know that they may (though these days more unlikely) come across such a therapist, but should not accept such treatment.

I think there was a time when I would have allowed myself to be bullied, believing a professional always knows best.

[Guest eden1616]

My first counsellor at CAMHS told me that I was annoying and that she hated me. She also spent most of the time talking about herself and if she asked me a question and she didn't like my answer she would just keep asking until I answered how she liked. She also would stare right at me even after I told her it made me very uncomfortable she just said that she normally liked to look at her patients and would not stop doing it which made me feel quite threatened. She was horrible and I still get nightmares and panic attacks about her.

[Guest legend]

bullying or brutally honest ?

[taurean]

That's awful Eden.

One of the things that did get highlighted last year on a thread about therapists was to be wary of some of them's inflexibility in approach.

As I found with that psychiatrist, once they have decided on an approach they can be inflexible and believe they know best.

I believe the therapist needs to partner with the patient not dominate. And explain the reason for their proposed therapy.

I find it awful that any professional could say what they did to you Eden. I always taught my people I was mentoring that the customer has a right to their beliefs and feelings and whatever we might personally think we must be totally professional in our approach at all times.

[taurean]

There is a difference between threatening and bullying and reasoned persuasion.

[daisy]

That is so true Roy what you have just said about their inflexability,i have come across quite a few over the years,but my last therapist was going to start off the way i said i could just about manage to let him my house to help,even the psychologist said to do it the way i suggested,but then out of the blue he said i am giving you a month,and if you don't let me come in and go all over the house(instead of starting small,but still high for me)then he couldn't help anymore!

I really at the time felt that i could of cleared some stuff,and who knows then we could of moved on to other areas!

Now i have had so mant other stresses happen over the past couple of years i am worse than ever!

I am not saying that all are bad,as i have had a couple of good ones,and i am still trying to go down that route,so i wouldn't want anyone to be put off.

[daisy]

That was an awful thing to happen eden x

[Guest PalaeontologyLover]

gosh this is awful. The worst I've had is undereducated therapists who don't understand the illness - one even told me that mental compulsions don't count as a compulsion!

[OCDLONELY]

Eden that so called therapist should be stuck off how dare they treat you in such a way. There are some amazing professionals out there but sadly there will be awful ones too like in life in general. I hope you see someone much better now?

[Ashley]

We all know there are bad therapy experiences, it is not right but it will always happen sometimes. Maybe therapist having a bad day at work and snaps at the patient, it's not right but it does not mean they are still not trying to help. When therapy does go wrong it is important to discuss it, firstly with the therapist and with the service manager and if need be, involve charities like OCD-UK if things can not be resolved.

I think another point that needs mentioning is that with OCD we are all guilty of not pushing ourselves hard enough sometimes, and sometimes we need a kick up the backside, and I think a therapist does have a role to play there in pushing us a little (just a little), which could come across bullying I guess if not done sensitively.

But I think it is absolutely vital we emphasise that the vast majority of therapists are kind, caring individuals who, even if they don't know lots about OCD are trying their best to help us. We should not accept bullying, but we should not let such stories stop us seeking help.

[Hal]

Natalie Young doesn't say herself she felt bullied Tricia, in fact if you go on to read the entire paragraph she goes on to say:

'It took a Herculean effort to walk over that blood. I shall never know, but after going that my blood fear completely disappeared.'

We don't know the tone in which the comment was made, it could have been said with a sense of humour w/o the sense of threat you're reading into it.

[taurean]

Totally agree Ashley.

Let's remember everyone that we may totally focus on OCD, but therapists have to cover a host of amxiety depression and other mental health disorders.

It is why the charity suggests in its guidance on the main website ways to check out the OCD knowledge of a therapist where we are seeking our own therapist.

Another of the many things I praise about our charity is the work it is doing in liaison with therapists and to help educate them and support students in OCD.

But there is, as I said before, a way for professionals in whatever field to get their point across. I found it in my field and even those of my customers who had extremely challenging scenarios to deal with and big decisions to make were never, I think, anything but understanding of the compassion but nevertheless factual persuasion that I deployed to show them what options were available - note options.If there was only one option I could see, I explained why.

If we get problems with therapists, we know where to come - and many people question the guidance from the therapist on the forum and get feedback to consider.

The message has to as always be seek out therapy preferably one to one and if seeking your own private therapist seek if possible a recommendation but always check out their understanding of OCD.

Edited March 1, 2015 by taurean

[Guest Tricia]

Natalie Young doesn't say herself she felt bullied Tricia, in fact if you go on to read the entire paragraph she goes on to say:

'It took a Herculean effort to walk over that blood. I shall never know, but after going that my blood fear completely disappeared.'

We don't know the tone in which the comment was made, it could have been said with a sense of humour w/o the sense of threat you're reading into it.

I had read the rest of it, Hal, and there's no indication to suggest it was said in a light-hearted tone. (She writes, 'quietly told', which sounds more threatening than jovial to me) Yes, the exposure appeared to cure Natalie of that fear, but I still don't believe any therapist should speak of dragging a person over something they fear.

Maybe the fact that my dying friend was shaking with fear and being shouted at by therapists has made me more sensitive.

Edited March 1, 2015 by Tricia

[Caramoole]

....and therapy will be challenging. Whilst not going so far as flooding, boundaries will have to be pushed often to the distress of the sufferer. Although we talk about baby steps, they do have to be sufficient to face the anxiety. Where a sufferer is unwilling to make such attempts, it is reasonable for a therapist to consider whether they are in a position to help rather than keeping the sufferer in prolonged therapy and offering just comfort and reassurance.

I think we all know what constitutes bullying and I think we have to consider carefully whether it truly is.

[Caramoole]

(she writes, 'quietly told', which sounds more threatening than jovial to me)

You see that doesn't sound threatening to me. I could read that as meaning, calmly, without fuss. Our interpretations can be coloured by our own slant on things.

[taurean]

Uh hu.

I think you have to be a strong personality to be a therapist and yes Caramoole it's all about perception.

But I was being bullied into an approach that was inappropriate . That psychiatrist had had I think four session with me, two of which were just explaining how the mind works.

He was in no position to decide whether flooding was the most appropriate treatment or, indeed, whether I could tolerate it. I had very clearly explained to him that my OCD was currently fine (I was not in an episode) , but I wanted to understand how I coud treat it, without inducing an episode now. That very clear understanding of what my goal was was also completely disregarded.

Had he said to me - Roy, you need to build a hierarchy of exposures and work through that from the lowest up - and you need to work out some good distractions to deploy.I would have been delighted.I learned all that later.

As I said when commenting on my own approach to challenging business scenarios with my clients, understanding and then reasoned encouragement and persuasion were my - very successful - watchwords. Threats and bullying never featured.

As Ashley posted a few days ago, not engaging with the right therapeutic approach will get us nowhere. Bullying I don't agree with, calm persuasion and explaining why something unpleasant like ERP needs to be done I do agree with.

[Ashley]

....and therapy will be challenging. Whilst not going so far as flooding, boundaries will have to be pushed often to the distress of the sufferer. Although we talk about baby steps, they do have to be sufficient to face the anxiety.

Caramoole is right, if therapy is not provoking anxiety in some way (a manageable way) then the therapy is not therapy.

[Guest eden1616]

I am with someone much better now. The counsellor that did that I saw for 6 months and I only went because my mum made me as the things she was doing started from day one I also didn't know I had ocd back then. I also know of someone else who had a bad experience with her so I think it had been going for a while. She also wasn't actually a therapist she was a nurse which I found out later.

[Guest Tricia]

That is good to hear, Eden (that you have someone much better now).

I believe the 'therapists' in the book I quoted from were also nurses. As were the two women who were so cruel to my friend.

bullying or brutally honest ?

I know that experts like David Veale and Paul Salkovskis are honest, maybe brutally at times! However, they would never bully. There's a huge difference.

David Veale writes, "A program of CBT has to be done voluntarily, and the motivation has to come from the patient, if it is to be ethical and effective." He goes on, "It is both unethical and counterproductive to coerce exposure to feared situations or activities. Therapists may encourage, and challenge a patient, but would never force exposure..."

....and therapy will be challenging. Whilst not going so far as flooding, boundaries will have to be pushed often to the distress of the sufferer. Although we talk about baby steps, they do have to be sufficient to face the anxiety. Where a sufferer is unwilling to make such attempts, it is reasonable for a therapist to consider whether they are in a position to help rather than keeping the sufferer in prolonged therapy and offering just comfort and reassurance.

I think we all know what constitutes bullying and I think we have to consider carefully whether it truly is.

Boundaries do indeed have to be pushed, but there's a right and wrong way to go about this.

You see that doesn't sound threatening to me. I could read that as meaning, calmly, without fuss. Our interpretations can be coloured by our own slant on things.

It's impossible to be sure what Natalie's experience was, unless we ask her, of course! It was written ambiguously. 'Quietly' can be threatening at times (one of the nuns at the boarding school I attended would speak very quietly before beating us). 'Quietly' can also be calmly, without a fuss, as you said, Caramoole, but that doesn't indicate any humour, which is what there would have had to have been if it wasn't threatening. If there had been humour involved that would have been fine. Natalie could have added something like, '"...they said, with smiles on their faces." Then we would have been left in no doubt.

Caramoole is right, if therapy is not provoking anxiety in some way (a manageable way) then the therapy is not therapy.

I agree, but that has nothing to do with being bullied.

Edited March 2, 2015 by Tricia

[Ashley]

I agree, but that has nothing to do with being bullied.

It does in the sense that some patients may perceive themselves to be bullied, when in reality it is their therapist trying to push them a little in an anxiety provoking way.

[Caramoole]

I don't think anyone has any doubt about the fact that bullying should never be used.

[Guest eden1616]

It does in the sense that some patients may perceive themselves to be bullied, when in reality it is their therapist trying to push them a little in an anxiety provoking way.

I think generally people can tell the difference between a therapist who is trying to push and help them along and one that is bullying them. As if they were just pushing you then you would feel threatened by the anxiety that resulted. However if you were being bullied you would feel threatened by the person.