Safer alternatives to pharmaceutical drugs...

[Guest Tricia]

I'm not sure there are any. Many of us feel that if something is either natural or available in a health food shop, it must be safe. Of course many supplements are synthetic and not natural at all.

After my experience with vitamin D capsules (100 percent natural form), I have done a great deal of research.

One supplement (NAC) I took for a while, years ago, but I never felt happy with six times the recommended dose. A friend of mine was the first to trial N-acetylcysteine for her obsessions and it's been widely used for OCD and other conditions since - but at a much higher dose than manufacturers recommend.

However, I don't even think a low dose is necessarily safe.

What I have come to realize is this: the cells of our bodies are absolutely incredible, each one a microscopic 'pump' creating more energy than a nuclear power station (equivalent in size, obviously). All these cells need, to be balanced and to function well, is the right nutrients and exercise. Too few or too many nutrients, even natural healthy ones, can throw the whole system out of kilter. High blood pressure being one of the early warning signs for many of us.

My friend has had over a decade on a very high dose of NAC and has awful problems with her blood pressure - rapidly fluctuating from too low to dangerously high. No doctor can work out why. Obviously I cannot say it's the NAC, but it does make me wonder.

[Guest eden1616]

I think anything that you put into your body that was not meant to be there or that you body didn't make is going to have some sort of side effect. And with that in mind I think you just have to choose what you are prepared to tolerate and what you aren't.

[Guest Saz]

Couldn't agree more with both of you. x

[Handy]

Exercise makes endorphins. Its free,no RX needed. Avoid states like being hungry, tired, sleepy.

[Guest Tricia]

More about the dangers of supplements on the news today.

[gingerbreadgirl]

Have you got a link Tricia? X

[Guest Tricia]

No, I just heard in on the BBC news and noticed it's in many of today's papers. Something about disturbing results of a ten year study. I expect it's easy to find online.

I had already read of trials (years ago) of beta-carotene leading to more cancer. They knew that carrots were helpful, so thought they'd isolate beta-carotene and it would have the same effect. They were wrong. I don't know when humans will accept that Mother Nature knows best!

P.S. Just had a look. Here's one for the Guardian:

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/apr/21/vitamin-supplements-increase-risk-cancer-heart-disease-research

Edited April 21, 2015 by Tricia

[gingerbreadgirl]

I wonder if this also has something to do with the fact that people who take supplements are less likely to eat healthily in general. Correlation doesn't necessarily equal causation.

[Guest eden1616]

i think it is hard because our bodies have Evolved for milions or years to know how to get what it needs from food and i think science doesnt have a complete understanding of the human body yet it is getting a lot better but of course it will take time and without the complete picture it is easy for us to make mistakes.

Edited April 21, 2015 by eden1616

[Guest Tricia]

I wonder if this also has something to do with the fact that people who take supplements are less likely to eat healthily in general. Correlation doesn't necessarily equal causation.

I agree with your last sentence, but I think as many people who eat healthily like to add a supplement as those who don't eat well and feel a vitamin pill will make up the difference. Also, large studies with control groups showed overwhelmingly that the groups on the beta-carotene were doing far worse. Some trials have been halted due to the high increase in death.

Vitamins, along with all nutrients, are meant to come in complete packages - food!

Edited April 21, 2015 by Tricia

[Guest Tricia]

i think it is hard because our bodies have Evolved for milions or years to know how to get what it needs from food and i think science doesnt have a complete understanding of the human body yet it is getting a lot better but of course it will take time and without the complete picture it is easy for us to make mistakes.

I don't think science will ever catch up to nature. It's certainly got a very long way to go!

[Guest eden1616]

Well it depends it is kind of a snowball affect it just depends if we will have destroyed our planet before it can catch up.

[Handy]

The question is whether a supplement has the same effect in the body as the true thing that the body makes itself.

Edited April 22, 2015 by Handy

[gingerbreadgirl]

I personally think the problem isn't supplements themselves it's the fact that they are unregulated. There is a place for synthetic forms of nutrients.

[Guest Tricia]

I personally think the problem isn't supplements themselves it's the fact that they are unregulated. There is a place for synthetic forms of nutrients.

I think the only place for synthetic nutrients is where a person is unable to get adequate nourishment by natural means.

I didn't take huge amounts of vitamin D, actually only half the dose my GP advised, but it played havoc with my health.

[Guest Tricia]

The question is whether a supplement has the same effect in the body as the true thing that the body makes itself.

I think we can safely say the answer to that is 'no'. It is impossible and I think always will be. It's time humans worked with nature rather than trying to bend it to our will.

[gingerbreadgirl]

I see what you mean. But for example,my partner is vegetarian and takes vitamin b 12 supplements and I don't think there's any harm in that, in fact I think it's essential.

[Guest Tricia]

Admittedly, if you are eating a plant-based diet (vegetarians don't need it) obtaining B12 is essential, but the synthetic cyanocobalamin should be avoided.

However, it's our level of hygiene that removes B12 and I have a friend who eats only raw unwashed fruit and vegetables (not something I'd be prepared to do!) and she has her B12 level checked annually and is fine without any supplements.

Edited April 22, 2015 by Tricia

[gingerbreadgirl]

My partner had her b12 levels tested which were deficient despite eating dairy. I think you have to be very careful.

[taurean]

I have used supplements for some time and have my own nutritionist Miles, who also runs his own health food store. He encourages me to use a balanced multivitamin and mineral pill each day, use Omega 3,6 and 9 supplement and eat some oily fish and wholewheat and wholefood items and fresh fruit and vegetables, and use margarines high in polyunsaturated fat - I use Flora as it happens.

I also was advised by a Nuffield health doctor on a healthscreen to cut down on added or high content sugars, and take low fat options when possible too.

From two forum members I got the idea of taking NAC - N-Acetyl-Cysteine, and Choline Inositol each day as they had found these beneficial for OCD. Of the former I take 1 600mg capsule and the latter 1 capsule which delivers 250mg of each of Choline Bitartrate (which delivers 100mg Choline) and Inositol.

I also take my 20mg Citalopram - a modest dose but the max recommended for my agegroup.

I am doing pretty well now on this combination of med plus health supplements; having got my anxiety levels down about a month ago, the Citalopram started to work, and I started taking the NAC and Choline Inositol. The latter seem to sharpen up my thinking but I need to take them early in the day or else they keep me awake.

Although I am experiencing some stress over family matters and finalising my pensions, I am currently in a pretty good place, able now thanks to the Citalopram to feel happier and have been able to engage in my ERP hierarchy fairly successfully, take loads of physical exercise and my blood pressure is down to 127 over 73 which is normal and I think pretty good for my age (64 nearly 65) and my resting pulse is down to 64 which is good.

Appetite is fine and my stomach has settled down to no distress.

I think the key thing was getting my anxiety down by listening to my forum friends - in particular Caramoole, GingerBreadgirl and Ascend - who told me I was spending too much time thinking about on OCD on this forum, and to get seriously really really busy and distracted, and not to interact or give tome to intrusions. I also carried lout the advice of my new therapist, who helped me to view the intrusions as just mental chaff and to understand how in OCD our field of view brings triggers into focus that stay out of view in non-OCD sufferers. Applying all this and mindfulness reduced the anxiety, taking away heightened arousal and muscular pains and headaches, then the meds and the supplements became of great value - they were being blocked I think - masked from effectiveness by the high arousal anxiety state.

But of course as usual different things may work for different people in OCD sufferers - meds and supplements seem very highly subjective to individual benefit.

Also people taking meds should take medical advice to ensure that any substances they wish to take are safe in combination with their meds.

Best wishes everyone

Roy xx

Edited April 22, 2015 by taurean

[Guest Saz]

The thing is so much of our food is not what it claims to be. 'Fresh fruit n veg' is often covered in pesticides or chemicals for example which is a real shame, then there is all the gmo stuff. I try to buy organic when I can but even still I'm wary. I'm currently looking to buy produce from a farm that is free from anything potentially harmful and to help my body work as best it can x

[taurean]

Why not?

We have a new organic-only shop a short walk away which I have been "cultivating" - excuse the pun!!!

I can get some great-tasting carrots and greens in there, and they have a fabulous organic and low-fat tinned cream of mushroom soup which both myself and my wife gave 10 out of ten.

Plus they have an absolutely divine woodland honey.

[gingerbreadgirl]

I think the key thing was getting my anxiety down by listening to my forum friends - in particular Caramoole, GingerBreadgirl and Ascend - who told me I was spending too much time thinking about on OCD on this forum, and to get seriously really really busy and distracted, and not to interact or give tome to intrusions. I also carried lout the advice of my new therapist, who helped me to view the intrusions as just mental chaff and to understand how in OCD our field of view brings triggers into focus that stay out of view in non-OCD sufferers. Applying all this and mindfulness reduced the anxiety, taking away heightened arousal and muscular pains and headaches, then the meds and the supplements became of great value - they were being blocked I think - masked from effectiveness by the high arousal anxiety state.

I'm so pleased to hear you're doing so much better, Roy! I know you were in a pretty bad place last time we talked - this is great news xx

[Guest Saz]

Yes well done Roy x

[taurean]

Yes going fine at moment.

What I don't know is if the natural alternatives would have worked on their own without the Citalopram. I sispect the high anxiety level also stopped them working, as it did the drug.