Progress Report

[taurean]

Tired grumpy but warm and a little more confident.

Upsetting intrusions sap just by being there let alone "looping".

But have been carrying on as normal - experiencing muscular pains and some emotional distress. Hoping the reactions and intrusions might lose some power soon.

[taurean]

Lovely and warm, nice tasks scheduled, good food and I need to choose some uplifting books to read. I am enjoying romance, country/expat living, joyous local community tales.

Calmly focusing in that direction and just accepting but not engaging with intrusions.

[taurean]

Calmly remembering that when I do well I simply think shallow, not too much to deeply, focus to my core values and being a team player.

[Caramoole]

Calmly remembering that when I do well I simply think shallow, not too much to deeply, focus to my core values and being a team player.

Just beware that you're not using this as a compulsion, and I know you'll say you're not....but it's a very fine line we tread and it can be very sneaky. We can be doing things that at first glance seem innocent, sensible and harmless that are actually compulsions. This is almost like self-reassurance, a neutralising statement to self-soothe.

You're currently using a lot of avoidance and control of situations and circumstances to cope and (possibly) compulsions that you perhaps don't realise.

When you're so sensitised and anxious sometimes we have to do "whatever" to find that first foothold but ultimately, we have to re-examine what behaviours we do that aren't perhaps obvious but may be supporting the disorder. As I've said before, I think this is particularly so with those who've suffered for decades and have used coping mechanisms for so long that they're ingrained and seem normal. You work very hard at this but at the same time seem to rigidly control your circumstances to avoid anguish. It's all so flipping complicated, isn't it?

Just some food for thought

[taurean]

I agree - a fine line.

For me a reasonable aim is a comfortable place - allowing me to get out travel when required and for us to enjoy some entertainment, but having roles and tasks to conduct to keep me busy and benefit us.

And enjoy some contact with others on a pleasant basis.

What seems to run well when in a good place is using our week planner to schedule together and separate tasks - both of us benefit from that, and having things to do is good.

I do benefit from a structure - and we both need to know what the other is doing/scheduling.

Edited November 30, 2015 by taurean

[taurean]

Yes rigidity is unhelpful . I try and have a structure - which is helpful - but flexibility too (there is no rigidity in the weekly plan, it's in pencil so things are shifted around or deferred too).

[Caramoole]

Just beware that you're not using this as a compulsion, and I know you'll say you're not....but it's a very fine line we tread and it can be very sneaky. We can be doing things that at first glance seem innocent, sensible and harmless that are actually compulsions. This is almost like self-reassurance, a neutralising statement to self-soothe.

Just watch for, and look at the content of the self-talk/thinking and try and appraise it honestly, as to whether it's justified or whether it could be a compulsion wearing a disguise (self-reassurance parading in what appears to be the official uniform) I have unearthed quite a lot of this in myself, that I didn't realise were actually compulsions. We've built up so many over the years that are automatic responses that they're not obvious to spot. I suspect you too have probably got quite a few going on.

[taurean]

Good point.

I am realistic mind. I don't expect to be able to do all the things that my friends without OCD do, and my goals are practical and realistic bearing in mind my personal flavours of gravy and distortions.

I am willing to bet that a lot of our members would be delighted if they could get through a nearly full working life, and be able to get out and about all over the country - which is in fact what I have done, OCD notwithstanding.

There is more work to be done later I think on the difficulties that cause the problems, the breakdowns - still a work in progress to recover from. Sometimes I can keep them short - and In the good periods i do operate mindfully a lot of the time - that is a starting point therefore when reviewing later.

Avoidance? - Yes.. There is a lot I don't like - and which doesn't suit my emotional instabilities and hyper-sensitivity - about the modern way of living anyway. It is why in therapy we settled into looking to find a balance between necessary exposure and response pervention non-avoidance and choice.

And in good periods, I am able to process triggers generally well and function well, stay up late sleep well and have plenty of energy and happiness. I live the way I like to then, watching and reading the things I enjoy, and keeping up the ERP in a controlled format on other stuff that I find distressing or repulsive. . That way of life is fine for us - and as I say, a lot of people here would like that.

Edited November 30, 2015 by taurean

[Caramoole]

There's an awful lot of defensiveness and need to justify in that post Roy .......and I think this is a bit of a problem for you sometimes, it happens quite often as though perhaps you feel that it's like criticism. Perhaps because of the problems your describe with emotional instability and sensitivity, you feel that people are perhaps questioning your ability or knowledge. They aren't/I'm not, other than that's what we're all here for. That from a point of standing back from the situation we can sometimes spot what may be problems that are holding someone back and what we all want is wellness and an improved life for all.

Sometimes we have to be brutal with ourselves and really question, " Are there perhaps things I'm doing that I hadn't appreciated, that I've missed, that I could consider?" I don't know, you might be a Saint :angel: I'm certainly not, nor all-knowing and I'm still learning that there are mistakes that I'm making/have made that I hadn't even appreciated I was doing that were hampering me.

I do think there are a lot of behaviors going on that whilst seemingly innocent/sensible are in fact compulsions. There's a lot of control and avoidance. That's something only you can decide on (the avoidance stuff), as you've described you're happier moderating your life-style to suit and that's fair enough, it's a personal choice......but I do think there are other areas you could look at and consider whether they are holding you back and sustaining these set backs.

I think it's admirable, as you say, that you've maintained such a successful career despite OCD, it's worthy of applause and shows a great deal of strength and determination :clapping:

I want you better Roy.......so if I ruffle your feathers now and again, so be it. It's with good intent and I haven't got the fish out (yet!). On the forum we move mountains by sharing personal experience.......part of my experience is finding out mistakes that I've made for decades and not been properly aware of. Maybe you have one or two too.....or maybe not

Caramoole :hug:

[taurean]

You can ruffle my feathers when you need to!

I think people feel I have inner strengths of character and mental strength that sadly I simply don't have.

Been busy today and just kept going and had a nice tea.

Will take another - detached - view of what you say.

Yes I just want to recover my equilibrium nothing more.That will do nicely.

Edited November 30, 2015 by taurean

[whitebeam]

It sounds as if you're looking after yourself well.

Keep well, Roy - thinking of you. :original:

[taurean]

Not so good Penny, but having a quiet reflect on what Caramoole said.

For me, just managing to be comfortable and happy is the goal. Exposing to what is necessary but not too much so it might overwhelm me (which it did) - yes, wanting to keep in a comfortable place below that fine line, wanting - but of course not having - control.

Safety procedures - yes in a sensible way geared to my personal low ability to cope, despite various previous efforts to improve that sensitivity.

Difficulties with negative connections? Yes very much unfortunately right now. Not doing too well with that but looking not to respond is right.

Snowbear said its good to seek to leave an old worn unhelpful neural pathway and start up new positive ones and we agree on that, which is good.

So, living a relatively simple life within a comfortable environment that I can operate within helps for me. Yet it can be when I appear to be at my strongest, and seek to push the boundaries - or purely a trigger I just can't see as benign and connect with despite plenty of exposure - that in fact I relapse and start up looping and making connections.

That is what actually happens in a nutshell. In a strong mental place, an unpleasant intrusion can be resolved and doesn't stay in focus.

Outside of that, I remain vulnerable.

[taurean]

There's an awful lot of defensiveness and need to justify in that post Roy .......and I think this is a bit of a problem for you sometimes, it happens quite often as though perhaps you feel that it's like criticism. Perhaps because of the problems your describe with emotional instability and sensitivity, you feel that people are perhaps questioning your ability or knowledge. They aren't/I'm not, other than that's what we're all here for. That from a point of standing back from the situation we can sometimes spot what may be problems that are holding someone back and what we all want is wellness and an improved life for all.

Sometimes we have to be brutal with ourselves and really question, " Are there perhaps things I'm doing that I hadn't appreciated, that I've missed, that I could consider?" I don't know, you might be a Saint :angel: I'm certainly not, nor all-knowing and I'm still learning that there are mistakes that I'm making/have made that I hadn't even appreciated I was doing that were hampering me.

I do think there are a lot of behaviors going on that whilst seemingly innocent/sensible are in fact compulsions. There's a lot of control and avoidance. That's something only you can decide on (the avoidance stuff), as you've described you're happier moderating your life-style to suit and that's fair enough, it's a personal choice......but I do think there are other areas you could look at and consider whether they are holding you back and sustaining these set backs.

I think it's admirable, as you say, that you've maintained such a successful career despite OCD, it's worthy of applause and shows a great deal of strength and determination :clapping:

I want you better Roy.......so if I ruffle your feathers now and again, so be it. It's with good intent and I haven't got the fish out (yet!). On the forum we move mountains by sharing personal experience.......part of my experience is finding out mistakes that I've made for decades and not been properly aware of. Maybe you have one or two too.....or maybe not

Caramoole :hug:

It hasn't been a great night's sleep - I have tried to read and I found myself ruminating about a lot of things in the past and have had to keep tugging myself back - that behaviour is certainly not helping.

Running through previous breakdowns certainly doesn't help when it happens either - it is ghastly.

So now trying not to worry, and to turn over and drop off to sleep.

One breakdown is enough - scrolling back through previous ones is awful and does keep me stuck.

[taurean]

I certainly may have missed, maybe not appreciated some way of discouraging these unhelpful practices.

I did go out yesterday into the community and that was good.

Edited December 1, 2015 by taurean

[taurean]

I was just considering what I was doing that was helpful when in remission.

I do think I may have got too confident with the newspapers and couldn't cope.

And I think perhaps that black humour hit a nerve - I tend to engage with it, give credence to it rather than just smile and move on.But I haven't found out a way beforr a loop kicks in to sustain the angst, which then doesn't shift.

Edited December 1, 2015 by taurean

[taurean]

I do well when I tease my brain away into fun and enjoyable things.Like romance archaeology music sport personal paperwork filing walking meeting friends for coffee.

It is teasing, but when it really locks into those beneficial pathways things settle and calm down and the mental chatter eases.

Edited December 1, 2015 by taurean

[taurean]

Oh well time to get up. Feeling pretty bad about myself with those vile intrusions so just reminding myself they are not my thoughts.

Panda eyes so not looking at all nice.

Will look to find some local shopping to do in the community to keep nice and active this morning. And enjoy the XMAS goodies on display.

Mrs wants me to have a tablet for a present.

[taurean]

After tea last night I settled down to face my demons and take a view as Caramoole is seeing it, and look at what I might change.

I needed to go into my core belief which is at the heart of the problem. I got back to the title of a computer game advertised maybe 5 years back. I had personalised with the extreme distress scenario conjured up in the title, causing revulsion and anxiety; the title then started looping.

The distress last night was overpowering. But I needed to challenge that core brlief causing the problem. I sat it out, massively upset. But I noted that to a game player the title just would represent the evil of the villains to be fought - the villains are exactly that - unconnected baddies - I needed to see that not the meaning my OCD has given.

I went for a long sleep. I now find that game title is looping around so am calmly reminded myself of that reprocessing rationale.

[taurean]

And this is the centre of my obsessional thinking. The OCD scans for something to focus on then puts it into a thought loop to continually threaten my core values.If I look to restrict that by removing its feed, it goes into the past and pulls out one it had used before.

Edited December 2, 2015 by taurean

[gingerbreadgirl]

Hi Roy, I have a few thoughts on all of this but feel free to disregard them - I know you are sensitive right now (and of course you are far more knowledgeable than I am anyway). It is in no way criticism, I just want to help.

Here goes...

OK so this is how it seems to me, a fellow OCD sufferer who is not involved with your specific situation. As you know, it is often much easier to spot the problems in someone else - I see you give others fantastic advice on a daily basis.

It seems to me that this constantly tightens its grip on you because you react to the 'warning signal' your brain gives off. By this I don't mean you carry out any obvious compulsions such as reassurance seeking, etc. However what I do see you doing a lot is thinking 'this is awful, I must find a way to control and avoid this terrible feeling'. Your brain latches onto this response and thinks 'this must be a very important and urgent stimulus, I must sound a loud warning whenever it arises' and you get locked into a cycle with it.

It also seems to me (and I could be very wrong, so forgive me if I am) that you engage in quite a bit of self reassurance - reminding yourself it's just OCD, not your thoughts, and so on. Again this is just my observation and it is not a criticism, I'm just trying to spot possible ways to help you out of this awful slump.

The stimuli your OCD reacts to are essentially meaningless - another person (such as your wife) would find it no trouble at all to be near them. You (or rather your OCD) have essentially - and totally understandably - trained your brain to react to them, see them as a threat, and it seems you continue to do so (for the best and most understandable of reasons). Not by doing any obvious, overt compulsions - just by trying to get them away.

I totally understand when you say you are too sensitive for ERP right now - but there is a difference between ERP and just not avoiding.

I honestly believe the fastest route out of this terrible low point would be live a forced normality, not do anything therapy-related, no relaxation or CBT or anything, just live like someone without OCD and let your brain do its thing. It'll flip out no doubt and start sounding warnings all over the shop, but if you don't react to it, it'll get the point eventually.

This isn't criticism at all - and you don't have to take an of it on board. We just really care about you and respect you on this forum and we want to help in any way we can xx

[taurean]

Good thoughts. Pretty spot on.What I was obliged to do anyway when working. Eventually the brainlock stopped but it could take weeks.

The relaxations I do anyway, I like them and would normally be very beneficial.

What holds me back from coming through in that way - normality - is that constantly -repeating thought loop.

To get the anxiety to lower yes one needs to see the thoughts in a "mental chaff" benign way and for them to not be constantly in my face.

Looking back at why they are popping up and how the OCD changes them to personalise and so threaten my core value is what snowbear is doing with the cognitive reprocessing.

I found that core belief set in motion by my cognitive thinking from the original distressing computer game title. That thinking and its meaning had personalised and the title looped. Double whammy.

I do think, like snowy, that rewinding the core belief and substiting a benign response to it

will prove helpful.

Edited December 2, 2015 by taurean

[taurean]

You are both spot on re avoidance. Just seems to push the OCD back fishing out the past and digging in.

We were at an appointment yesterday afternoon. I went with my wife, didn't duck out, and sat with the looping thoughts - horrible but showed me yet again that we have to carry on. She knew I was in an awful state but also agrees.

[taurean]

Well it didn't take long to look at that core belief and the meaning coming from it that causes the damage. It comes through in all the obsessional thoughts.

Yes others don't pick up on the titles content headlines, news or whatever and personalise them, mind-read on them. Others don't seek to anchor benign things to distress triggers/loops.

The damage comes from the OCD seeking out, focusing on them interracting with and personalising against my core values - and setting up a thought loop. And as Caramoole said, when the OCD is wanting to, it will find something to latch onto - even if it is only revealed for a few seconds -m as when I came across an unpleasant story ion a perp the other day, and a headlibne in a chat magazine on the news-stand a while back..

What you said is so true ginger, the OCD does this and others' brains' don't - when we see things in the same way as others do there is no reaction.

I am going over to our nearby shopping high street to do what i normally do on Wednesdays. Bus ride, banking, light lunch, window shop maybe buy one or two things,supermarket, KFC for chicken and chips for tonight. Mrs Roy is pleased with the resiults at the hearing centre yesterday, but needs to calm down at home. now - she has white coat hypertension so we had to set up that meeting in a couple of trips to help her cope.I was really pleased with how she did - she is getting much better since I have been aiding her do the gradual approach to tackling this phobia.

[Caramoole]

I honestly believe the fastest route out of this terrible low point would be live a forced normality, not do anything therapy-related, no relaxation or CBT or anything, just live like someone without OCD and let your brain do its thing.

This is essentially what I feel. Literally do nothing, not even exploring core beliefs for now....no explanations of how your OCD works or affects you....nothing. As I often say "Just Be"..... No retreating to bed (or a safe place), no posts on the forum in the early hours (unless it's non-OCD related)

I think there are lot's of behaviours going on here that on the face of it seem sensible to you, seem like you're dealing with things and managing the situation.....but that are almost certainly non obvious compulsions and neutralising behaviours.

You clearly like to deal with all situations (not just OCD) by managing them, by having a system, by having a plan (probably through years of being very successful & organised in your career).

It will be very difficult for you to put these things aside because essentially they are part of your personality, part of who you are and how you operate.....but as far as your OCD is concerned, I think they are working against you at the moment.

As you can see, Ginger's thinking is very much in line with my own and that's because we are stood back from the situation and can observe dispassionately without the despair and anxiety.

Your discipline and organisational skills are to be admired, when you find a foothold you would be a fantastic person to have involved in charity work....whether that's a food bank, an animal or wildlife charity, National Trust. Those skills, the planning, the organisational skills, the passion.....they would be invaluable to so many charities and a good outlet for you to use those obvious talents you used in your working life.

[taurean]

Nice sentiments and yes I now see what you see.

Had to consult the pharmacist over the pain in my shoulder that she thinks is just lying in a bad position and with the bed pillows propped up - has caused real muscular pain. Collateral damage!

But she has given me something that is ok with the Citalopram - ibuprofen is not. So now I am able to go out - they make me a slightly drowsy so in any case it's the bus plus care at the crossings.

You are such good friends thank you. This is certainly the best place to get insight.