Great quote from Jon Hershfield

[OCDCanuck]

OCD makes you aware of the last things you want to think. You don't have to like it, but learning not to hate it is the key to being free.

[carlleo123]

He's great, wish I could have him as a therapist!

[Guest Sisyphus]

OCD makes you aware of the last things you want to think. You don't have to like it, but learning not to hate it is the key to being free.

I like that quote OCDCanuck. I think there's real wisdom in it but that last part, the important part, troubles me too.

OCD certainly does rake up the worst stuff imaginable(well hopefully anyway!)

And it goes without saying that I could never like any of that stuff.

But I also wonder if I am capable of ever not hating it either.

Perhaps the aim is to reach a point where your understanding of how OCD works enables you to just know that it's false and completely disregard it without attaching hate or anger to it.

Anyway - top quote mate.

Edited July 30, 2014 by Sisyphus

[PolarBear]

Perhaps the aim is to reach a point where your understanding of how OCD works enables you to just know that it's false and completely disregard it without attaching hate or anger to it.

The point is to just accept obsessive thoughts like any other thought. They're not worthy of being liked or hated. They just are.

[Guest jayjay89]

(IMO) it's all about being non judgemental of thoughts - something I struggle with (because how can thinking about hurting someone or something not be 'bad')

At the moment I'm trying to think about it as if a friend said it to me, ie, 'I can't stop thinking about stabbing so and so', me 'do you want to stab them?', them, 'no', me, 'don't worry about it, it's just a thought'

That was terrible punctuation... Lol.

I'm also trying to think of thoughts as things that just are (as polar bear said!)

Like, there is a tree. It's not good or bad, it's just a tree. You don't judge things like trees, even if they are growin in an annoying place or whatever, so why judge a thought?

[Guest Sisyphus]

Well the accept part is exactly the problem Polar. It feels very wrong just accepting abhorrent thoughts, like I'm agreeing with them or something.

Perhaps it's semantics and "accept" means something else here.

Non-judgemental is better Jajay but still difficult - the thoughts still seem an important reflection of me, my psyche - not "just a thought".

Guess if this accepting thoughts is the only way forward, I'm gonna have to get around this somehow to progress.

[Guest legend]

its ok to have bad thoughts.

[taurean]

Hate is an extremely all-powerful, unhelpful, emotion - it consumes us.Therapists/psychiatrists accordingly, in anxiety disorders, usually I believe try to steer us away from it.

There fore I agree with Jon - its best to come to terms with and break free from OCD, not to hate it.

[Guest OCDChineseFighter]

I actually feel fear instead of the 'hate'. I don't know why I think in some certain way to make me fear again. now I try to accept it as a part of human nature.

[PolarBear]

Well the accept part is exactly the problem Polar. It feels very wrong just accepting abhorrent thoughts, like I'm agreeing with them or something.

Perhaps it's semantics and "accept" means something else here.

Non-judgemental is better Jajay but still difficult - the thoughts still seem an important reflection of me, my psyche - not "just a thought".

Guess if this accepting thoughts is the only way forward, I'm gonna have to get around this somehow to progress.

The harder you resist the thoughts and try to push them away the harder the thoughts will push back.

You accept them as just a thought. Nothing more, nothing less. You aren't agreeing with them. Just allow the thoughts in, let them be and don't resist.

[Guest Sisyphus]

its ok to have bad thoughts.

Hate is an extremely all-powerful, unhelpful, emotion - it consumes us.Therapists/psychiatrists accordingly, in anxiety disorders, usually I believe try to steer us away from it.

There fore I agree with Jon - its best to come to terms with and break free from OCD, not to hate it.

All makes total sense on paper guys. Just not with my bad thoughts(Golem alert anybody!?).

I know the arguments though so maybe a case of "get your @ss in gear and your mind will surely follow".

I dunno though, maybe I can be the first person on record to outthink this thing? We've got to dream big here.

(I'm joking - don't touch the face!)

[gingerbreadgirl]

maybe I can be the first person on record to outthink this thing?

Lol, have to say I've been tempted by this one many times!

[Guest Sisyphus]

The harder you resist the thoughts and try to push them away the harder the thoughts will push back.

You accept them as just a thought. Nothing more, nothing less. You aren't agreeing with them. Just allow the thoughts in, let them be and don't resist.

I can work more with that concept. The word "accept" bothers me greatly with certain thoughts, and "not hate" <= "love" in my addled mind.

[taurean]

I can work more with that concept. The word "accept" bothers me greatly with certain thoughts, and "not hate" <= "love" in my addled mind.

Hi David,

Can your "addled" mind accept the fact that everyone experiences unwanted, often distressing, thoughts, but non-OCD sufferers simply dismiss these without interacting with them - they get "resolved" and go away? They accept that they are just thoughts that have popped into their brain, but are unwanted and not needed and not appropriate, so dismiss and forget them.

It's pretty standard practice in OCD therapy for the patient to be told to understand this, and that it his OCD that compels him to engage with thoughts, thus triggering stress and anxiety. Conversely, just accepting the thoughts as OCD thoughts and not engaging with them and applying distraction, prevents them from triggering the anxiety response.

[Guest Sisyphus]

Hi David,

Can your "addled" mind accept the fact that everyone experiences unwanted, often distressing, thoughts, but non-OCD sufferers simply dismiss these without interacting with them - they get "resolved" and go away? They accept that they are just thoughts that have popped into their brain, but are unwanted and not needed and not appropriate, so dismiss and forget them.

Hi Roy,

Well without wishing to be an awkward sod, I can accept that to a certain extent. But I would always argue that someone with OCD has that ramped up to 11 compared to someone without on say 1 or 2. A self-reinforcing phenomenon. So once you get suckered down those rabbit holes the frequency and potency of the distressing thoughts gets worse and worse until there's no comparison.

But I will agree that non OCD sufferers do get random, or unpleasant thoughts that their brains can much more easily dismiss, yes.

It's pretty standard practice in OCD therapy for the patient to be told to understand this, and that it his OCD that compels him to engage with thoughts, thus triggering stress and anxiety. Conversely, just accepting the thoughts as OCD thoughts and not engaging with them and applying distraction, prevents them from triggering the anxiety response.

Sure - it makes sense. I know this is what we all have to do to break the anxiety/fear atachment to these thoughts. I do understand the theory. I was just trying to say I have a problem personally with athe idea of accepting some of them. They are so abhorrent. But I can certainly accept that they are just OCD thoughts, false, opposites. But maybe that is verging into compulsion territory, I dunno. This puzzle's no fun any more.

[taurean]

. But I can certainly accept that they are just OCD thoughts, false, opposites. But maybe that is verging into compulsion territory, I dunno. This puzzle's no fun any more.

I don't think this is a compulsion. The idea is you accept that they are OCD thoughts ( and yes, therefore false, malicious, opposite to our real characters), then apply distraction.

How does that feel?

Roy

[Guest Sisyphus]

I don't think this is a compulsion. The idea is you accept that they are OCD thoughts ( and yes, therefore false, malicious, opposite to our real characters), then apply distraction.

How does that feel?

Roy

Ask me in a couple of weeks Roy

[Guest legend]

this topic came up in my talk last night in regards to having abhorrent thoughts , and i quoted , "its ok to have these

type of thoughts , what you have to work at is that you arent ocd at all , ocd is a seperate entity to what you

are , an illness that you are dealing with , not you physically, an illness thats bloomin evil ."

The feelings that the thoughts provide are what make us react to them , hence the need to rid onselves of the thoughts

and anxiety

acceptance of the disorder is the key , sometimes its hard to accept the thoughts , i tend to say you acknowledge

that you will have thoughts that are abhorrent , there is no way you can control it , but you can certainly change

the way you react to it , both cognitivley and exposures wise

[PolarBear]

Therein lies the key. Well said.

How did your talk go?

[Guest legend]

Therein lies the key. Well said.

How did your talk go?

without sounding "big headed" it was one of the best , and the question and answer phase at the end was fantastic

I certainly educated a lot of people last night , professionals to !

Have been asked to do another next year , in a different area.

Thanks for asking PB

[PolarBear]

I figured you'd nail it.

[Guest Sisyphus]

this topic came up in my talk last night in regards to having abhorrent thoughts , and i quoted , "its ok to have these

type of thoughts , what you have to work at is that you arent ocd at all , ocd is a seperate entity to what you

are , an illness that you are dealing with , not you physically, an illness thats bloomin evil ."

The feelings that the thoughts provide are what make us react to them , hence the need to rid onselves of the thoughts

and anxiety

acceptance of the disorder is the key , sometimes its hard to accept the thoughts , i tend to say you acknowledge

that you will have thoughts that are abhorrent , there is no way you can control it , but you can certainly change

the way you react to it , both cognitivley and exposures wise

Yeah, this approach I can work with.

I suppose we each have to find our own interpretation that works for us.

It's just I get chills down my spine when someone's telling me to accept a thought.

Cheers chaps.

[Guest legend]

its ok to accept it to , nothing wrong agreeing with ocd

[taurean]

David,

When I'm in an episode the thoughts I get can be absolutely gross, but by knowing they aren't my thoughts, they are conjured up by OCD,and they usually are totally opposite to what the real me thinks, I can deal with this aspect.

[PolarBear]

Yeah, this approach I can work with.

I suppose we each have to find our own interpretation that works for us.

It's just I get chills down my spine when someone's telling me to accept a thought.

Cheers chaps.

Let's turn that around. How far has not accepting the thoughts got you?