Repeating words

[Guest REBECCA]

This is a quick message to see if anybody has this symptom, or any useful knowledge that could help please.

It is regarding obsessive thinking and compulsions regarding 'good' and 'bad' words, and feeling the need to repeat them. Mostly it is the 'bad' words that I feel the need to be repeated, i.e. if said once, it must be said again to 'cancel it out'.

I have developed an aversion to certain words that I perceive as 'good' or bad' [for personal reasons, that I know are irrational] and if whilst I am talking to somebody they say a word that I feel is 'bad' I have an urge, which can be awkward and embarrassing, to try to get them to repeat the word to 'cancel it out'

Sometimes I have had to be very creative in surreptitiously getting them to repeat something, often I have pretended not to hear and elicited a word that way. This can make conversations very stressful and I am afraid this symptom could escalate to the point of me avoiding talking to people. I do not want to become more isolated.

I have particular difficulty using the telephone at the moment for this reason, it became stressful because a phone call is often of a limited duration, as opposed to conversations in person, so I have found I am avoiding using the telephone. I really need to overcome this to prevent being isolated and for practicality.

This is certainly not my only symptom, but I am working on a programme of treatment at present and this is one symptom that seems particularly difficult to know how to tackle, as it is largely a mental rather than active symptom and involves other people, whereas most of my other symptoms don't.

Does anybody have any thoughts, knowledge or advice to share about this please. ? I am successfully tackling other symptoms at present using the four steps and other cbt techniques, but feel this might require a different approach.

Any thoughts very gratefully received.

Edited July 30, 2014 by REBECCA

[PolarBear]

Rebecca do you have someone who knows about your OCD and your work to overcome it who would be willing to help you?

[Guest REBECCA]

Yes, thank you.

Though I really value the knowledge of the people in this forum and wondered if there might be any suggestions based on personal symptoms or treatment, etc.

[PolarBear]

Here's my suggestion then.

Having someone repeat a certain word is a compulsion. You need to stop doing compulsions to overcome obsessions.

My idea is for you to write down your bad words on a list. Explain to the person you trust what is going to happen. You're going to do some Exposure and Response Prevention.

Both of you have a seat. Your friend chooses a word from the list, at random. They then form a sentence containing the word and say it out loud. Your job is to sit there and not perform compulsions. Primarily that means you cannot ask them to repeat the word. Your friend will know ahead of time not to repeat the word anyway.

You should take note of your anxiety level (on a scale of 1 to 10) before beginning. Then note how high your anxiety goes after the word is said and how long it takes for your anxiety to return to normal levels.

The exercise is over when your anxiety returns to a normal level. At that point your friend then says a new sentence containing a new word. The whole thing repeats.

This will take several sessions. At first you may find your anxiety takes quite a while to return to normal. Over time you should see your anxiety spiking at lower levels and lasting less.

It's important after the trigger (the word is said) not to perform any compulsions. Normally you try and have the person repeat the word but they won't do it now. Be careful to not substitute a new compulsion for the old one.

[Guest REBECCA]

I was thinking something like that would be

helpful and have been trying to formulate

it in my mind. .. !

but that has set it out very clearly, thank you very much indeed.

[PolarBear]

You are most welcome.

[Guest REBECCA]

One point of clarification if I may please. .. When you mention not substituting one compulsion for a new one,

I assume this would include devising any other 'neutralising' or 'cancelling out' compulsion to eliminate the word, whether in my mind, or out loud. ?

[PolarBear]

Precisely. Like, repeating the word in your head seven times or something like that.

[Guest REBECCA]

I am sorry to have to ask about a variation on this theme, but ocd is a sneaky b*****d and finds ways to try and seep through.

So, I am taking positive action and focusing on treatment, including using the 'Brain Lock' Steps approach and am trying to do pleasant and constructive things in the 'Refocus' step to divert my attention from an obsessive thought or compulsive urge; but things I like to do include: listening to an audiobook, watching e.g. a Ted talk video, or doing some audio guided meditation, but with all of these things if a 'Bad' word arises in them

I have a compulsion to rewind whatever it is and hear the word again to neutralise it. If it comes up again I might have to rewind it several times in an attempt to feel comfortable with it, but I invariably don't and often have to abandon whatever it is and do something else.

This feels very frustrating and destructive because it then disrupts the 'Refocus' step that I am using to distract me from a different type of obsession or compulsion; and the 'Bad' word preoccupation becomes a distracting obsession in itself. Leaving me with another issue to then deal with.

As an aside, this symptom is really minimising the variety of things I can get pleasure from doing. It has not yet prevented me from reading [my favourite activity] but it is creeping in a bit, when I read 'Bad' words and have to look at them again, or turn the page back and forth as a 'cancelling out' action.

I am guessing the answer to this is that I should continue with whatever it is without rewinding it and tolerate the discomfort; but considering that when doing the 'Refocus' step you are supposed to do something you like doing to distract you and feel better, it seems like another case of discomfort upon discomfort.

It sometimes feels like there is hardly any area of my life that ocd does not attempt to intrude upon and ruin.

Anyway, maybe it seems like I have answered my own question, but I would be very grateful for any clarity or additional thoughts on this, as this issue it is making treatment, life in general and leisure feel very difficult, even impossible, some days.

Thank you.

[PolarBear]

You don't have to distract yourself. You can just sit with the bad word hanging there, without performing any cancelling out action, and wait for the anxiety to go down. If that is too difficult you can set a time to sit with no compulsions, gradually increasing the time period over time.

[Guest Sisyphus]

I can see the problem - triggers within the step 3, refocus activity. So you end up with fractal steps and OCD!

The only thing I can think of to realistically deal with this in the shortterm is ditch your refocussing activities that coud contain triggering words. Maybe that's impossible, but I dunno - a computer game or knitting or yoga or sudoku or juggling or making a flan or base jumping or bank robbery. Sorry I'm getting carried away.

Just something without the risk of words. Because while on paper, it could be a good kind of double exposure or something, in my personal experience your brain only has a so much capacity for this stuff and you really need to keep it simple and deal with one thing at a time.

[Guest REBECCA]

I am very grateful to you Both for your thoughts.

David please could you clarify 'fractal steps' I believe fractal is some sort of mathematical term? but,

I am a writer, so I am [ironically] definitely a words person, rather than a mathematician. !

Yes, that is indeed it. .. other triggers arising within the Refocus step; ocd really can be an insidious thing.

I am really glad you suggested that I, at least initially, could consider do something that is not likely to trigger other symptoms, as I was feeling like I should really be able to deal with it all together. But in reality, this is very difficult and it was feeling like this situation is sabotaging my best efforts in using the steps and making progress. ..

So, for now I will aim to find other positive, non word based, activities to focus on.

Though probably not bank robbery.

Thank you very much; and warm wishes.

Edited July 31, 2014 by REBECCA

[Guest Sisyphus]

Oh that's good news.
Yes, you are right about fractals being mathematical, but I was thinking more of a fractal pattern:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_dBigZkRETuM/TUGbAlYtrPI/AAAAAAAABtI/20PBANbODfA/s1600/Mandel_zoom_08_satellite_antenna.jpg

So one thing spawns another thing like it and so on...

I am like you and would probably attempt to tackle the insane step within a step, I mean you get used to this level of insanity when spinning OCD alongside every day activities. But I do think that in terms of following the 4 steps or CBT, it is very important to keep it simple and tackle one thing at a time. Because anything else risks reverting to type and using OCD to rationalise your way out of it. So one thing at a time is best I reckon.

Damn cos I was really looking for an accomplice - back to the drawing board then.

You're a writer - very cool indeed. I wish I was a writer.

David.