'Good' and 'Bad' letters & numbers issue holding up my treatment

[Guest REBECCA]

Yesterday I posted about a specific symptom regarding a struggle with saying or hearing words I perceive as 'bad'

[for personal, irrational reasons] and received some really helpful guidance.

I wanted to put out a request for further advice please, as I have an associated symptom that is really hindering the flow of my treatment, and life in general. ..

I have many different symptoms that I am working on, but one whole symptom group is regarding 'Good' and 'Bad' letters, words and numbers that my brain has made obscure connections with regarding thoughts and issues I find upsetting or difficult.

The most intrusive manifestation of this is that I feel I cannot do certain activities, especially difficult treatment tasks,

on days when the first letter of the month and the number of the date are 'Bad' or 'Wrong'

For e.g. S is a 'Good' letter so September is a 'Good' month and 1 is a 'Good' number so 1st September is a good day to do things, but there are many instances of the first letter of the month being 'Bad' and the number of the date being 'Bad' and on those days things feel a lot more difficult, I have more doubts and fears and my treatment, that is going well overall, can suddenly grind to a halt; or on bad days can feel it is going backwards.

There is a kind of nonsensical hierarchy of good and badness of letters and numbers with some being Good, some Ok, some Bad and some really Bad.

This is particularly pertinent today, as I have recently rediscovered 'Brain Lock' and really want to start using the steps as a new strategy for my treatment , I am feeling very positive about doing this, as the approach makes a lot of sense to me, but I told myself I couldn't start until 1st August, because until then the month and date was 'Wrong' and on those days it felt that there was more chance of various feared outcomes occurring. [believe me, I know this is irrational, but as I am sure you know, is very difficult to talk yourself out of. ]

I have effectively wasted the last few days waiting until Friday, so that the month and date are 'Ok' and I can fully start using the steps approach to challenge various symptoms. .. but guess what?. .. ocd is now attempting to move the goalposts and is telling me that 1st September would be a better day to start, because September is a 'Good' month and August is only 'Ok.' This is incredibly frustrating because I was building a positive feeling about starting using the approach and now I feel thrown into doubt and indecision.

This symptom feels, and effectively is, potentially endless, because even in a month where the first letter is 'Good' there can be days within it that the number of the date is 'Bad' and this throws doubts up about whether or not I should do something.

So it feels like an ocd 'no win' situation.

This symptom is particularly hindering in relation to progressing consistently with my treatment, which is my main concern. Though it impact on my daily life as well, in ways that can be very frustrating, inconvenient and isolating, i.e. I cannot make an appointment, go to visit somebody, or even ring them on a day when the month and date are 'wrong' ; often this has even included the time e.g. 7 O'clock is better than 6 O'clock, etc. and made doing something very difficult or even impossible. So there are things I have avoided doing altogether on certain days.

Sorry this message is long. I guess my question is, how to tackle this symptom so that I can get on and do things, most importantly my treatment, without this issue getting in the way.

I suppose there is a kind of irony that ocd is getting in the way of me overcoming ocd, but that is how it works.

Once you start fighting it it comes up in various insidious ways to try and stop you.

I habe made some very good progress in treatment thus far, I refuse to be stopped by this, but could do with some specific suggestions to combat this symptom.

Thank you very much to anybody who reads this.

[Guest jayjay89]

Hi Rebecca

I would relate this to starting a diet - two things tend to happen, either you pick a date to start the diet (Monday) or you wait until you have finished all the junk food in the house first and then start.

Ocd treatment is effectively a diet - it's a change in behaviours that aren't particularly easy to change, in the hopes that you can change your mental outlook.

I think there are two approaches you can take - you can start on Friday August 1st as planned and accept that it isn't the perfect time to do it, but the best time for change is now. Or you can start it right now, this very minute - this will be erp in itself.

Good luck, hope this helps!

[Guest REBECCA]

I had a moment of strength yesterday in thinking that putting it off was ridiculous and unhelpful and I should start then and there.

I tried a little bit, but the doubts crept in. I backed off and reverted to 'I am waiting until Friday' Not helpful. !

So, yes, thank you, the diet analogy is apt and your thoughts and suggestion make perfect sense.

I will take steps right now to move forwards, or the obstructive 'wait until all conditions are perfect' thinking could go on forever in different ways.

[Guest REBECCA]

I was really concerned that my treatment would not keep progressing. So getting over this symptom is very important !

[taurean]

Hi Rebecca

It's all about facing the fesr snd doing what OCD tells you not to. Nothing bad is lkkely to happen.

The rational - theory B (where theory A is what OCD says) is that there are no "good and bad" days - OCD is telling you otherwise, a seeding event to build a phobia.

So deliberately choose to act on a so-called 'bad' day and oppose the compulsive ritual.

As you expose OCD's falsehoods in this way, you will expose it all as a myth.

My sister suffered from this - to her the number 11 was bad, until het therapist straightened this out

[Guest REBECCA]

Thank you for these thoughts

and for taking time to read and respond. I would be interested to know anything further about how the therapist straightened this issue out.

I guess this situation is frustrating because it is difficult enough doing the treatment tasks, but if I am doing them on a so called 'Bad' letter and number day, it can feel like discomfort upon discomfort.

But I suppose if you are going to do something difficult you might as well face it all. If you are going to feel uncomfortable anyway, what does it matter if it is because of one irrational issue or more. ? . .. Actually, writing that has further helped me clarify it. !

Thank you again.

Edited July 31, 2014 by REBECCA

[taurean]

You are right Rebecca.

If you don't stand up to the beast, it will consume more and more and more of your time and your life.

It's Hobson's choice really. Only one thing to do.

[gingerbreadgirl]

I really feel your pain, it must be really hard to face doing this difficult treatment and then have it compounded by another difficulty (I.e. the issue with days). But as others have said, the only way round OCD fears is through them - facing them head on and refusing to do what OCD says you should do. I know this is massively easier said than done - but I really think it will help you if you just do at least a bit on the bad day, despite the anxiety. Show OCD who is boss, and all that.

[taurean]

Just to say, with my sister's treatment, it was proved to her (with help form her CBT therapist) by exposure and response prevention that when she came across the number 11, it was just a number - nothing bad happended if she came across that number, however many times she might come across it, and under whatever circumstances.

[PolarBear]

You do what you can while always trying to do what OCD says you shouldn't.

If you think about this anymore your rules will eliminate almost every time and you'll have no time to work on overcoming your disorder.

Yes you'll feel uncomfortable some days. That's the point. Becoming uncomfortable and learning to live with it.

[Guest ADD]

I totally relate to this OCD. I have over 50 'bad' numbers now. Along with bad words, names, places, subjects, colors, people, things, and on and on.

At one time before I was trying to start something new that to my mind was very 'important', starting new routines and work and in making a perfect plan to change them. And the importance I put on it made it all the more scary that it could be ruined by starting at the wrong time. Not only did it have to be the right date to start (the perfect date), though when that date came it could not be tainted by having a bad spike that day that would then also make the day 'bad' and 'ruined'. Then even when BOTH of those conditions were met on a the day set for it, I'd still mess it up cause of procrastination or distraction and then most of the day would be gone and it'd no longer be an ideal day, starting from the right time etc! So I kept moving the start date, over and over and over again!

That totally was a failure! Needing that 'perfection' first. Of course that day did not ever happen for it!

Then other times even when thinking about seeing a new therapist, my OCD would ruin it by finding something 'contaminated' about the therapist when looking for them. They either had the wrong name, wrong numbers in their address, the wrong street name, the wrong city, wrong numbers in their phone number etc. I was more anxious cause I didn't want the treatment itself to be tainted. I was stuck. I never saw any of them at all!

It is a terrible thing to get stuck in. There is that phrase "If not now, when?" Or the other one of sign that says "If you're waiting for a sign, THIS IS IT"

[PolarBear]

At some point you have to face the fear of bad numbers. Or colours or places or whatever. You have to expose yourself to one, live with the anxiety and move on.

It may well be that you end up terrifying yourself every time. That's okay. You keep moving on.

[Guest REBECCA]

So, I have continued today, with strengthened resolve, to aim to resist compulsions and use the new approach of the Brain

Lock Steps, and I have had a few very small instances of resisting things, either completely, or after a period of delay. But there are some big things I have not been able to resist and my overriding feeling at this point is one of failure.

I feel ashamed that I have done hardly any work this week because of being preoccupied with this; and today my partner is coming over and we are supposed to be going for a meal this evening, but I don't feel like I deserve to be with him, or do anything nice.

I feel I have achieved very little this week. I like to think I am a strong and motivated person, but sometimes I feel I should really push myself more.

Edited August 1, 2014 by REBECCA

[PolarBear]

Your OCD took years to get to this point. It won't be conquered over night. Small steps are great. They keep you moving forward.

[Guest ADD]

At some point you have to face the fear of bad numbers. Or colours or places or whatever. You have to expose yourself to one, live with the anxiety and move on.

It may well be that you end up terrifying yourself every time. That's okay. You keep moving on.

It's not anxiety I'm afraid of! Anxiety is only an alarm of what I am afraid of. I'm not afraid of the alarm or it's noise itself. Only the consequences of what it is warning me of. I can live with anxiety, I can't live with the consequences!

[PolarBear]

I can live with anxiety, I can't live with the consequences!

I understand the overwhelming feeling that something bad will happen. You know it's irrational yet the feeling is tremendous.

To begin to overcome the disorder you have to live with the thought, "Maybe something bad will happen." You will have to face that which you fear, expose yourself to it, not perform compulsions. live with the consequence and the ensuing anxiety.

I know I may be stating the obvious but that's the way.

[Guest ADD]

I understand the overwhelming feeling that something bad will happen. You know it's irrational yet the feeling is tremendous.

To begin to overcome the disorder you have to live with the thought, "Maybe something bad will happen." You will have to face that which you fear, expose yourself to it, not perform compulsions. live with the consequence and the ensuing anxiety.

I know I may be stating the obvious but that's the way.

How is it irrational when what I fear happening happens?

[PolarBear]

How is it irrational when what I fear happening happens?

Can you give an example of what you mean?

[Guest ADD]

Can you give an example of what you mean?

I mean I fear intrusive unwanted thoughts and feelings themselves. And I fear the memories of unwanted things getting linked to things so those things now forever trigger the recall and reactivation of the unwanted thoughts and feelings in connection.

[PolarBear]

I understand. We were sort of talking about two different things.

For instance, a person fears the colour red. If she sees red she has to tap three times or a family member might die. On one level she knows it is irrational to believe the colour red could kill a family member. That doesn't mean the fear isn't real and that the connection exists.

Edited August 1, 2014 by PolarBear

[bendylouise]

It's not anxiety I'm afraid of! Anxiety is only an alarm of what I am afraid of. I'm not afraid of the alarm or it's noise itself. Only the consequences of what it is warning me of. I can live with anxiety, I can't live with the consequences!

that's how I feel too ADD.

I have very similar issues Rebecca and am hindered working on treatment in the same way. I also have chronic back probs which severely restrict my typing on here to get help and explain myself. its ab horrendous. good luck

[Guest ADD]

I understand. We were sort of talking about two different things.

For instance, a person fears the colour red. If she sees red she has to tap three times or a family member might die. On one level she knows it is irrational to believe the colour red could kill a family member. That doesn't mean the fear isn't real and that the connection exists.

Yeh though that is an X behavoir = Y in the physical world. Something that is literally impossible.

My fears are more simply not being able to tolerate certain thoughts and feelings themselves, they are traumatic or simply highly unwanted. Then I fear... if X thing (number, name, whatever it is) is linked to the intolerable Z thought, and then I go and do Y thing on that date or whatever the connected variable, then whenever in the future I EVER think of the Y thing IT IS ALWAYS GOING TO MAKE ME THINK OF the INTOLERABLE Z thought and associated feelings against it.

That is what I fear, and unlike the IMPOSSIBILITY of the first person's physical consequence happening, my fear is not only very possible, though extremely probable and somewhat self fulfilling! So, not irrational. Not something I can just face and not worry about happening cause it is impossible and so irrational to believe it is possible. Make sense?

Edited August 1, 2014 by ADD

[PolarBear]

Don't you think the link between X thing and Z thought is a bit irrational?

I understand you fear the feeling associated with a thought. We all feel that. But what does the number 312 or the colour red have to do with it. Yes, you linked the two together but is the link rational?

[Guest ADD]

Don't you think the link between X thing and Z thought is a bit irrational?

I understand you fear the feeling associated with a thought. We all feel that. But what does the number 312 or the colour red have to do with it. Yes, you linked the two together but is the link rational?

It's rational cause it is simply the way that memory works and is encoded. It is a natural process, not a psychotic one. How do you think that the meaning and understanding of language itself works if not in the exact same way? Are the shapes that make up the word "table" REALLY linked to the thought of a round or square object with legs you remember seeing before? It's only a symbol for it made up by whoever created the word and passed on. These are simply made up representations by our own mind.

We simply don't even notice all the memory links we have or think of them that way cause most of them are all neutral.

Being afraid of it and the content not being neutral does increase the occurrence though becoming more self fulfilling.

Though it is still that automatic process and whatever is heightened and self fulfilling about it is cause of the paradox of the fear, not intentional or about logic or reason or whatever.

So your question would be like asking "don't you think having intrusive thoughts is a bit irrational?" Neither we directly can control.

Edited August 1, 2014 by ADD

[PolarBear]

You make it sound like it's perfectly normal for people to associate inanimate objects, colours, letters, numbers to fears. If it's perfectly normal then I guess you don't have a disorder.

I understand the concept of someone associating an object to a fear or horrible situation. That doesn't make the association rational.

The number 13 is just a number. It contains no malice. Associating 13 with something bad happening is an irrational concept. Many people think 13 is unlucky. They're misguided but it's not a problem. When someone avoids 13 like the plague and doing so affects their life it's a problem... A problem caused by the irrational association between the number and something bad/fearful.