chlorpromazine (Thorazine) Chemical Lobotomy warning

[Guest likesawash]

Thorazine has been called a "chemical lobotomy" because of the similar effects it creates. Thorazine is an extremely dangerous drug which does chemically what a lobotomy does surgically European psychiatrists often acknowledge it openly, even in public and to the press. When Thorazine used on a large population of institutionalized persons, as they are, they can help keep the house in order with the minimum program of activities and rehabilitation and the minimum number of attendants, aides, nurses, and doctors. It saves money for the institutions and makes the people more manageable.

"The blunting of conscious motivation, and the inability to solve problems under the influence of chlorpromazine (Thorazine) resembles nothing so much as the effects of frontal lobotomy. . . Research has suggested that lobotomies and chemicals like chlorpromazine may cause their effects in the same way, by disrupting the activity of the neurochemical, dopamine. At any rate, a psychiatrist would be hard put to distinguish a lobotomized patient from one treated with chlorpromazine." - Peter Sterling, neuroanatomist, article Psychiatry's Drug Addiction, New Republic magazine (March 3, 1979)

Peter Breggin, M.D., psychiatrist, points out clearly that the purpose of Thorazine is to alter and disable normal brain functions. It is actually the HARM caused by the drug which produces the effect.

"The brain-disabling principle applies to all of the most potent psychiatric interventions - neuroleptics, antidepressants, lithium, electroshock, and psychosurgery. . . the major psychiatric treatments exert their primary or intended effect by disabling normal brain function. Neuroleptic lobotomy, for example, is not a side effect, but the sought-after clinical effect. Conversely, none of the major psychiatric interventions correct or improve existing brain dysfunction, such as any presumed biochemical imbalance. If the patient happens to suffer from brain dysfunction, then the psychiatric drug, electroshock, or psychosurgery will worsen or compound it."

"It's very hard to describe the effects of this drug and others like it. That's why we use strange words like "zombie". But in my case the experience became sheer torture." - Wade Hudson, testimony before the Senate Subcommittee on the Abuse and Misuse of Controlled Drugs in Institutions (1977)

In 1954 the neuroleptic drug, Thorazine, began flooding the state mental hospitals. The neuroleptics are synonymous with tranquilizers and antipsychotics. The neuroleptics are the drug most commonly given to schizophrenics. The psychiatrist would like us to believe that drugs such as Thorazine "cure" the patient by repairing or altering "bad" brain chemistry (whatever that means. . .). But the truth is the drug involves a strong dulling of the mind and emotional functions, and that this is what acts to inhibit or "push the symptoms into the back ground". According to Jerry Avon, M.D.:

"My concern is that people are having their minds blunted in a way that probably does diminish their capacity to appreciate life". (Boston Globe, 1988) Like surgical lobotomy, chemical lobotomy has no specific beneficial effect on any human problem or human being. It puts a chemical clamp on the higher brain of anyone.

Edited March 9, 2011 by Charlotte
Removed external link

[Guest Charlotte]

Hello

First of all, I really wonder what on Earth you are looking for? This is a board to support people with OCD, not to scare them or cause them upset. I find the majority of your posts ill informed and written to cause anxiety. I think that you really need to review your reasons for posting on here - we do not need preaching to, and trying to influence vulnerable people (because we are vulnerable when at our lowest) is not acceptable.

Secondly - I have never heard of Thorazine being used in OCD. So why did you feel the need to post this?

Yes - drugs may be made to "alter or harm" (and I disagree with the word harm) "normal brain functions" but in the same way, chemotherapy used in leukaemia destroys normal immune functions, and yet I don't hear people crying out about that. Medication used for hypertension alters normal cardiac physiology, but we don't mind that either! I find your choice of words extremist.

Please reconsider what you are doing on these boards - we do not push treatment onto anybody, and only try to give them the best opportunity to get better.

If it were not for medication, I would never have been able to go through with CBT and would either have killed myself by now or still be stuck in a wretched rut. I don't like taking medication any more than the next person, but if that's what it takes for me to be able to live normally, then I accept that.

People are not being chemically lobotomised - and I could find you a huge number of quotes from experienced experts to support that.

Lottie

[Guest likesawash]

Hello

First of all, I really wonder what on Earth you are looking for? This is a board to support people with OCD, not to scare them or cause them upset. I find the majority of your posts ill informed and written to cause anxiety. I think that you really need to review your reasons for posting on here - we do not need preaching to, and trying to influence vulnerable people (because we are vulnerable when at our lowest) is not acceptable.

Secondly - I have never heard of Thorazine being used in OCD. So why did you feel the need to post this?

Yes - drugs may be made to "alter or harm" (and I disagree with the word harm) "normal brain functions" but in the same way, chemotherapy used in leukaemia destroys normal immune functions, and yet I don't hear people crying out about that. Medication used for hypertension alters normal cardiac physiology, but we don't mind that either! I find your choice of words extremist.

Please reconsider what you are doing on these boards - we do not push treatment onto anybody, and only try to give them the best opportunity to get better.

If it were not for medication, I would never have been able to go through with CBT and would either have killed myself by now or still be stuck in a wretched rut. I don't like taking medication any more than the next person, but if that's what it takes for me to be able to live normally, then I accept that.

People are not being chemically lobotomised - and I could find you a huge number of quotes from experienced experts to support that.

Lottie

Because i know of at least one person on this forum who is on, or said they had been on, chlorpromazine. All of those quotes were from medical professionals themselves, so...

[Guest legend]

Because i know of at least one person on this forum who is on, or said they had been on, chlorpromazine. All of those quotes were from medical professionals themselves, so...

Yes and if you took the time to put it into the search engine youll find that there are many people who have tried this

anti-pyschotic. with good success.

No doubt they will read the above, and make them think about not taking it again. well done. great advice

[Guest Kelg]

Likesawash - I wonder if you are getting Chlorpromazine confused with Clomipramine? Whilst Clomipramine is indicated in the treatment of OCD, I would find it highly surprising if Chlorpromazine was being used. It's rarely even used in the treatment of psychosis these days.

*my mother has been on Chlorpromazine for decades-it is a standard drug for schizophrenia over here in British Columbia, Canada. She usually takes it at night so most of the effect is gone by morning.

It does dull the brain-I have observed the effects repeatedly.

Her brain still functions sharply but it sure the hell makes me wary of trying any pharmaceuticals -- the effects of those pills are not pleasant.

I am going to tell her about the information anyway.

She also takes Haldol--not sure what the other name is--its a small green pill-they say that is the important one she needs to take but they dont explain why.

I dont condemn people taking drugs for OCD--I have had really bad OCD at time and would have gladly taken a pill if it would alleviate the problem-but by the time I would have the pill it usually subsides.

On rare occasion I may take Gamma Amino Butryic Acid-it doesnt stop the OCD usually but I suppose like Thorazine dulls the sense to the point where you cant focus enough or dont get so anxious. But it doesnt always work and too much of it made my eyes look funny.

Edited March 10, 2011 by Kelg

[ACE]

I thought originally the title said Clomipramine as I've been on that quite a few times in the past and was worried if it had long terms effects.

[Guest Kelg]

One of the visible side effects of the drugs my mother takes (not sure if its the chlorpromazine or haldol) is it causes extreme sun sensitivity. If she goes out in the sun for 20 minutes she will burn and in the long term has negative effect on the skin.

One of them also causes tremors in the hands and a counter drug pill is required for it.

[Guest Kelg]

chlorpromazine causes the sun sensitivity.

[Guest nettles585]

chlopromazine was terrible when i had it, had it once and never again x

[Guest Kelg]

There is a counteracter pill for chlopromazine my mother takes called Benztropine. Dont know how it works.

[Guest nettles585]

I had it lawrie because my ocd got really really bad and i got into a bad state, pretty much a psychotic state, i know others on this forum who have had it, it all depends how controllable you are when your not well, i was uncontrollable, so that was the only thing they could think to do, i was 16 or 17 when i had it, it was horrible at the time but i guess it saved me from doing things that i would of regretted later.

Chlopromazine can be used for ocd, hence the distress ocd causes!!!!!!!!

[Guest nettles585]

What else could they prescribe to me if i was going to hurt myself/hurting myself?

[Guest likesawash]

What else could they prescribe to me if i was going to hurt myself/hurting myself?

Well i'm glad you're off it now x

[Guest nettles585]

yeah i really didnt like the drug but all i can say in a positive manner is that it did help and it stopped me from hurting myself.doing silly things at the time! never want it again tho x

[ChildofGod]

Thank you so much Guest likesawash.

I have experienced heavy duty psychotropic drugs and your information is accurate and needed.

I am a human being, and being drugged like that took away many years of my life and prevented any healing from taking place. That is exactly why they give it to you.

I appreciate your speaking the truth.

[BelAnna]

Sorry you've had a horrible time with Psychotropic drugs ChildofGod. Which ones were you prescribed?

Unfortunately I don't think you'll get replies on this thread as it's 10 years old.

[ivybasil]

21 hours ago, ChildofGod said:

I appreciate your speaking the truth.

Sorry to hear you had a bad experience with this medication! Are you doing better now?

It's worth noting, as others did in this thread at the time, that medication acts differently for everyone and is chosen for different reasons for everyone. As far as I know, this medication is not the first choice of medication used to treat OCD - it's quite far down the list, from what I can tell! The first port of call is usually an SSRI, with anti-psychotic medications as a secondary recommendation. If chlorpromazine is recommended by a doctor, it's with good reason and coming from someone who knows the individual patient's case. There are variations in dosage, I'd imagine, that might limit some of the more common and challenging side effects. No doctor should want to prevent healing or recovery. 

For some people, medications like this one might allow them to be in a place where they can really engage with the recommended CBT therapy for OCD. It might be a short term measure to get someone safely through a mental health crisis like a poster on the original thread said - it might be a longer term plan to manage a patient's care. It's a personal decision between a patient and their doctor. The truth in this case is subjective - medical care looks different for everybody. 

Like BelAnna said, this is an older thread but I just thought it was worth commenting to say this. If anyone reading this is worried that a medication is doing harm - talk to your doctor. Or if you feel you're not on the same page as their doctor about your treatment, find a new doctor. Charities like OCD-UK can help advocate for the care you need. 

[Side note: I'm not a doctor at all, just wanted to offer an alternative perspective on this topic!]

Edited July 27, 2021 by ivybasil

[felix4]

40 minutes ago, ivybasil said:

Like BelAnna said, this is an older thread but I just thought it was worth commenting to say this. If anyone reading this is worried that a medication is doing harm - talk to your doctor. Or if you feel you're not on the same page as their doctor about your treatment, find a new doctor.

You clearly mean well @ivybasil, but now is a really difficult time to be discussing problems with doctors & so much so, that I have felt very much alone with regards to my local psychiatric department. I tried contacting my psychiatrist about physical concerns over my meds a couple of months back, but was advised to wait for my next appointment, which was then moved into mid August.  Long story short, I felt no real option other than to go it alone and wean off. Thankfully, I have not been in such a bad way mentally and I am on the lowest doses anyway, & have managed to halve my antipsychotic, & have just embarked on cutting down my antidepressant by 1/4 too, which I gather could be a rough ride, judging by the amount of info online & dedicated forums.

I am doing this really slooooowly, & will inform them at my next appointment.    

[Caramoole]

I wish I could agree that all medications are prescribed with discrimination,  it's not been my experience. I have only ever seen a Psychiatrist once.....and only then as a  means for referral to a Psychologist, a requirement of private health insurance.  In under two minutes she was recommending anti psychotics, having virtually no knowledge of me or my history.  GP's have frequently put me under pressure to take various medications, despite very severe side effects previously experienced.

I'm sure the intent is genuine concern.  I'm sure there are some who benefit.  There are also many who are prescribed  (and routinely take) medication, often for years, who aren't any better or improved at all.  Medication may help some, for others it won't, and for some it will cause huge problems.  Yes, prescribe but it's important to assess efficacy and address accordingly and honestly.  It's the latter I have a problem with.  I feel GP's often rely on prescribing in an attempt to be seen to doing something in the absence  of  being able to offer good, quick psychological support 

 

[ivybasil]

Fair enough - happy to stand corrected!  I'm sorry you've both had that experience!

Edited July 28, 2021 by ivybasil

[Caramoole]

2 hours ago, ivybasil said:

Fair enough - happy to stand corrected!  I'm sorry you've both had that experience!

It's always good to hear different opinions and experiences Ivy, that includes yours

[felix4]

17 hours ago, ivybasil said:

Fair enough - happy to stand corrected!  I'm sorry you've both had that experience!

Hi @ivybasil

I agree with Caramoole, & what you had written made perfect sense! 

I just wanted to add that I have just found a very good website/forum that offers advice on many types of meds called "Patient". It is actually connected to a website that my GP surgery uses called "patient access", where I order my prescriptions, book appointments, & can even view my medical records.  I have just been reading forum posts about the med (venlafaxine) that I am weaning off of, & similarities in physical symptoms whilst on it, & how to wean off in a sensible way to minimize problems.