Hand washing and reprogramming my brain

[ecomum]

My mum always had a big obsession with hand washing and constantly wanted to know if we had "touched anything we shouldn't"? She would often come flying into school when we were little because she thought we may have touched something.only recently she rang the forestry comission because my youngest son got ring worm and he happened to have been collecting conckers.so this has spanned many decades.

My sister washes her hands and her childrens A LOT . i have always tied to take a more laid back approach .however my ocd is triggered by my mum and sis being super clean which makes me feel like i am the dirty one who has spread germs.

As a child i never saw a balanced view of this.

Now my obsessions involve washing my hands so. Much they are now raw.but the worst and most debilitating part is later when i think maybe i didnt wash them well enough cos i did it quick or witbout compulsions. Then i cant go back and change it and this kills me cos i worry myself sick.

I have been reading about changing my brain pathways which were developped as a child so i dont get massive panic attacks when i realise i touched something and didnt wash well.Thing is because the spike always comes later its hard to know how to redirect them.eg. i cant not wash because i already havent.

Sorry if this goes on a bit but i really want to beat this but not sure how.

I am not asking for reassurance that i didnt contaminate someone or make them ill just how i can stop thinking this.

Thanks everyone for reading .

Edited November 26, 2015 by ecomum

[PolarBear]

Well you've had bad examples to follow. No doubt your mom's compulsions had an affect on how you perceive the world. In your case it's not really about cleanliness. It's about hyper-responsibility, where you are concerned that what you do, or don't do, could harm someone else.

You have to start accepting that you are not responsible for the well being of every person on the planet. You just aren't. You can even start telling yourself that (once) when you get intrusive thoughts that you are responsible.

If I were you I would come up with a guide as to what is an acceptable amount of cleanliness. For instance, you'll wash your hands in the shower, after you use the washroom and after handling poultry, you'll only wash your hands for 30 seconds and you'll be satisfied with the result.

Lastly, you need to watch your compulsions. Once you've decided what is acceptable when it comes to washing your hands, you need to stick to it. That means not washing at other times and putting up with the anxiety caused by it. Put your foot down and accept that you may not always be the cleanest person in the world. You don't have to.

[Franklin12]

And on a wider level, think about the world - it's teaming with people, animals, bacteria, viruses, and we all go crashing about, knocking into each other, all the time, every day. It's simply not realistic to hope that you can isolate yourself from the realities of the universe, no matter how super-careful you think you're being. We simply can not possibly function if we give attention to all the 'what if's' that life can throw at us. We have to get on with living in the moment, in reality, dealing with what is actually happening. Watch how 'normal' people go about day-to-day hygiene, and do what they do, then go about your day without allowing yourself to ruminate or catastrophise about what may or may not happen. If something bad happens, then and only then you can let yourself feel bad about it, as 'normal' people would.

[ecomum]

Thanks for replies polar bear and franklin .

Now this is where my ocd really kicks in because i will look at polar bears advice and think "30 seconds ? I didnt wash my hands for that long oh no i am dirty!" And if i look at 'normal' people and see them washing their hands i then think "everybody washes their hands so that time i forgot must mean i spread germs"

Its more a case that i go crazy with guilt if i forget.

Each hand wash is "normal " in its self its just that i then touch something else and have to do it again.i am often late from having to stop and wash my hands but however much i wash i cant go back a change the times that i may have not washed or not washed well enough.

I guess this is the "normal' response i need to look for.How do 'normal' people respnd when they realise they didnt wash their hands.....

Thank you so much for helping me and taking time to reply .

Edited November 27, 2015 by ecomum

[Guest nikko9000]

What helps me recently is this simple strategy. It is good to be obsessed, it is not good to be compulsive. If you accept the fact that maybe you are killing every person on the planet and accept that this can occur forever and that you don't want to solve your problem, then it means that you are going the very right path. That you can dare to face your intense fears. If you are truly prepared to face these uncertainties for months it may help much sooner than you expect. What you should not do is to wash your hands. Do you have that strength? Imagine you are having a conversation with somebody who is very emotionally intense and you need to convince the person against his/her emotions with sheer authority. How would you behave to convince this point to this person? It is with the same confidence in your attitude that you should communicate with yourself internally when you resist your compulsions.

If you can somehow become less afraid that is ofcourse a big help. Let us say that you truly spread germs and even infected someone? Maybe you even killed someone or maybe that person will suffer. That is your reality. So what? What is the result of this? Does this mean that you are a bad person? Not at all. Does it mean that the world is not a perfect place. Yes. These are things and uncertainties which you MUST face and which you need to accept and dare to live with. it is nothing wrong with it and I hope that you can do it.

Edited November 27, 2015 by nikko9000

[Franklin12]

Hi Ecomum, yes its the way you are responding to situations that you need to work on - so you remember a time you forgot to wash your hands, you get that big wave of anxiety about 'what if', you accept that maybe you passed some germs on and then you DON'T ruminate any more about it. Don't try to fight the feelings of guilt or worry, accept that they feel horrible. Feel how it feels. Remind yourself that so long as you leave the thoughts alone they will pass. When ''normal' people don't wash their hands they don't give it a second thought. They probably wouldn't even remember if they had or they hadn't. BUT they would still feel dreadful if they infected someone, because that would be a normal response.

[Guest nikko9000]

BUT they would still feel dreadful if they infected someone, because that would be a normal response.

Not necessarily, if I had a disease and infected someone, I wouldn't feel bad because how could I have known that I infected someone? it would be a waste of time to think like that. This doesn't mean that I am a bad person, it just means I don't worry about that which is not necessary to worry about. I would even go as far as to say that it is unethical to be over hygienic, because if everyone had to over worry, it would be worse than infecting each other.

[Franklin12]

Yes fair point, to clarify I don't mean it's right to be dreadful if you give someone the flu, but I think most people would feel bad if they were careless and made someone ill eg handled raw chicken and didn't wash hands and gave someone salmonella. Or drive carelessly and knocked someone over it would be normal to feel bad. It's the difference between living normally eg co-existing with germs, and having to be aware of safety e.g wash hands with anti-bacterial wash if you're visiting a cancer ward. The problem is if you try to live a life without guilt you're setting yourself up for a fall, so when it does happen, it's important to recognise that sometimes it is appropriate to feel guilty and that it's normal and it will pass.

[ecomum]

I think society in general is big on hand washing so it makes it seem terrible if you forget or dont do it well.thank you for all your imsights i am going to figure out a plan to help me reprogram my brain so i dont over worry

Thanks again .

[Franklin12]

Try to defer your worry until you have actually harmed someone. Otherwise it's pointless, you are basing your entire mental well-being on the anticipation of feeling guilty because of situations that haven't yet happened. Save feeling bad for real situations.

[Guest yinyang]

I think society in general is big on hand washing so it makes it seem terrible if you forget or dont do it well

I agree, those adverts with product's that "kill 99.9% of bacteria" don't help matters.

They make you feel inadequate if your not immersing yourself in a sheep dip as part of your 'daily routine'.

They forget to mention that harmless and beneficial bacteria far outweigh harmful bacteria.

Funny that, I can't think why :dry:

[ecomum]

You are so right franklin its just how do i do it ?????

Thanks ying yang those ads do panic me.

[ecomum]

The spikes just keep coming which is horrible but on the plus side its made me realise that even if i had 100% reassurance about the last one the next one would still come.i will never be free if i dont start dealing with the route cause and not each individual thing.

I am spending a lot of time at the moment formulating a plan of how to do this.

[PolarBear]

Thanks for replies polar bear and franklin .

Now this is where my ocd really kicks in because i will look at polar bears advice and think "30 seconds ? I didnt wash my hands for that long oh no i am dirty!" And if i look at 'normal' people and see them washing their hands i then think "everybody washes their hands so that time i forgot must mean i spread germs"

Its more a case that i go crazy with guilt if i forget.

Each hand wash is "normal " in its self its just that i then touch something else and have to do it again.i am often late from having to stop and wash my hands but however much i wash i cant go back a change the times that i may have not washed or not washed well enough.

I guess this is the "normal' response i need to look for.How do 'normal' people respnd when they realise they didnt wash their hands.....

Thank you so much for helping me and taking time to reply .

'Normal' people, as you call them, don't even think about touching things when they haven't washed their hands. You do because you have OCD. You say you touch things then have to wash your hands again -- that's what you need to stop. Stop doing it and allow the anxiety to build and dissipate on its own.

[snowbear]

I am spending a lot of time at the moment formulating a plan of how to do this.

Hmm, could this be part of the problem?

Earlier you asked Franklin for advice on how to stop feeling guilty. I could be way off the mark here, but as I read the post it sounded as though you believed there's some sort of specific trick on 'how to stop worrying' which you aren't yet aware of and all you need is to discover what it is to fix the problem.

Now you're spending time formulating a plan on how to deal with the route cause of your worry spikes. But why do you need a plan at all? It's not complicated. You just stop yourself when you catch your mind starting to worry about something. It's an in-the-moment thing, not something you can make a detailed plan for.

There is no fancy trick or special method we know that you don't - you just stop yourself from dwelling on it by thinking about something else. If two minutes later you catch yourself dwelling on it again, you move on to other activities, keep busy, fill your mind with pleasant thoughts on a different topic.

Every time your mind drifts back to the worry you decide you're not going to think about 'that' (the worry), you're going to think about 'this' instead (eg. What to cook for tea, what to wear tomorrow, what the weather forecast is like, what's on tv...anything that takes your thoughts away from the topic you're worrying about.)

That's it. That's 'the special trick'. Plan completed.

I used to spend hours writing out neat revision timetables for my exams, but it was a total waste of time as I never stuck to them. In truth it was just a way of putting off the actual revision because planning a timetable about revising was more fun than opening a book and doing some study.

Could it be you're looking for detailed advice on 'how to' and wasting time formulating plans as a way of avoiding actually starting the therapy and living with the uncomfortable feelings?

[ecomum]

You may be right snow bear i am always writing things down and i am always buying books i think might help off amazon.

I have told myself that in a couple of days (i said a week a few days ago)that im going to come off here and stop talking about it etc as it is all a kind of compulsion.

[Franklin12]

You can do it Ecomum - when I first came on here I read all the stuff and I thought how amazing it was, and I read people's posts and the replies and then I saw them report on howuch better they were feeling and I thought how great to have found this forum and to know what to do. But actually I wasn't doing anything myself, I was just reading all about it but I didn't have the courage to take the leap. I would actually get a bit jealous every time someone else would say how they'd been doing their exposures etc and how hard it was, because I really wanted to do it but I was too scared. Then I hit really close to rock bottom, and I thought well there is really no choice now because it's either get better or go completely mad, so I went for it and now I feel great and I really want you to go for it too!

[ecomum]

Thank you franklin they are very kind words.you have helped me a lot.i am going to work hard at actually doing it and not just the theory test

[ecomum]

My mum has just rung me and said not to get my son a drone (remote control flying camera) for christmas which he has asked for because there was a program and a toddler lost his eye.this is a very sad story but its once again shes looking for mistakes i might have made that could cause harm.no wonder im like i am .

Ps im 42!!!!!!!

[snowbear]

My mum has just rung me and said not to get my son a drone (remote control flying camera) for christmas which he has asked for because there was a program and a toddler lost his eye.

once again shes looking for mistakes i might have made that could cause harm.

no wonder im like i am .

This is a perfect example of emotional reasoning, one of the thinking styles which can keep us locked into OCD patterns. I hope you won't mind if I use this example to explain how emotional reasoning works against us.

Fact: An accident has been reported involving a drone camera and a toddler.

Your mother's interpretation:-

Drone cameras are dangerous. She doesn't want her grandson to be exposed to that particular risk. She suggested you don't buy him a drone camera.

Fact: Your mother identified drone cameras as risky and said not to get one for your son. (I can't tell whether 'said' = demanded, suggested, or expressed an opinion without any actual command attached.)

Whatever her tone of voice, the only fact here is she made a comment. You applied emotional reasoning and leapt to the assumption your mother is 'looking for mistakes that might cause harm'.

From this I can tell your mother makes you feel guilty and you apply that emotional response to your thinking.

Your interpretation: -

What she said was direct criticism. Feeling guilty, you put what she said into the context of your fear of harming others. You criticized yourself and made yourself feel anxious.

Other people hearing your mother's comment might apply logical reasoning.

Drone cameras come with the risk of accidents. Sadly true. This lady thinks the risk is, on balance, too high even though she knows her grandson wants one. She suggested you don't buy him one, She expressed her opinion on the matter and left the final choice up to you.

Now it's your turn to apply logical reasoning. Your mother has made a suggestion based on her fears and concerns. Do you agree?

Is your son a responsible young man who will take reasonable precautions to keep himself and others from accidental harm? (Accidents happen, the risk is small, so on balance he can be trusted with a drone.)

Logical reasoning isn't influenced by emotions like guilt. You might decide the risks of a drone are too high based on what you know. Or you might reason that people in cars occasionally have accidents too, but it doesn't mean nobody should ever drive.

Can you see how your emotions influenced what you thought you heard your mother say?

I'm a sucker for emotional reasoning where my own mother is concerned. Logic goes out the window and I automatically apply emotional reasoning to everything she says as I hear it. But being aware of what we're doing is the first step to not falling for it in future. Now I stop and ask myself if what she said was direct criticism, or if I just interpreted it as criticism because she makes me feel bad about myself.

Mothers, eh?

Edited November 28, 2015 by snowbear

[ecomum]

I guess you have a valid point there.i can see that looking at it objectively some time later.i think the difficulty occurs because with my mum it happens so frequently.she used to keep us off school on swimming days and we were only allowed one roller skate so sometimes its hard to see it logically.if anyone else had said it i would have not taken it this way.

Many thanks for your help with this snow bear.much appreciated

[Franklin12]

I would agree to a certain extent, but I think that after 42 years, Ecomum has probably come to some fairly valid conclusions about the motives behind her Mum's comments. It sounds like Mum is very risk averse, doesn't want her children/grandchildren to come to harm, and that includes psychological harm so extends to situations where they might harm others. So the comments about the drone probably were loaded with emotional suggestion. However, I think it's really useful to try to learn how to hear what is said with the emotion stripped out, and act how we would if we simply heard the logical argument. It's very difficult with a parent because as children we had to take our parent's moods/emotions seriously, we learn that we don't like it when they are cross with us, and this shapes our behaviour. This is a perfectly natural process and one of the ways children learn how to be a functional adult (in an ideal world! Obviously this process can go very wrong in many ways). So trying to separate the emotion from our parent's messages to us is very difficult, even when we are adults. But it can be done, with some awareness - you have to learn to sit with the discomfort that you will feel when you feel you have 'displeased' your parent, and stick with the decision that you feel is right.

[ecomum]

I actually tbink for my mum it is like a confessing compulsion .once she has said it if he gets it in his eye then she wont feel guilty .im not saying this is her only motive and she genuinely doesnt want him to get hurt too.she definately has hyper responsibility ocd like me but her and my dad would never talk about mental health.they come from a time and families where it was not talked about and they just wont discuss it.

You are right though franklin and snow bear i do need to try and take the emotion out of it and i guess i need to learn to take it with a pinch of salt and not let it affect my recovery.i am older and wiser now and have lots of knowledge about beating ocd.