Drawing a line

[nrh12]

Hi

I don't want to repeat a post I made a few weeks ago so (http://www.ocdforums.org/index.php?showtopic=71208#entry598512) but does anyone else have difficulty in telling OCD from "normal"?

My OCD is based around contamination from particular "intimate" body fluids, some of this is from things very hypothetical (such as seeing a mark somewhere, the mark acts as a trigger). However, sometimes it's from more tangible issues - e.g. something that was really dirty was touched by hand, then the same hand touched something else. I would start worrying that the something else was contaminated, or I could touch that something else and then start worrying about spreading contamination from touching other things afterwards. I have no concern of contracting something, but an obession with things just being contaminated.

I can often deal with the hypothetical issues (although by no means is this always easy), it's the more tangible issues that I have trouble with. The problem I have is where the line between a normal respect for hygiene/cleanliness is drawn and where OCD takes over. I've been told and read in the past that if it seems to be OCD then it is OCD, but i find that easier said than done in these more "tangible" situations. I don't want this to become another compulsion but it's almost like at times I can't ID between what's OCD and what is A more healthy respect for hygiene etc.

Thanks

Neil

[Guest Growlingtiger]

Hi Neil,

This is an excellent point you make and it goes to the heart of something I have discussed at length in CBT.

For me it's all about planning and safety of others in my family , whilst I try to hide it and most of the time it's something I can do that's not particularly noticed by others I do wonder myself where the healthy line should be drawn for their sake and my sake.

The conclusion I came to was it's different for different people and as long as the final solution meets reasonable levels of caution, it's fine ...drawing that line where we step over into OCD type thoughts is not so easy to establish ...then it can kind of run away before we know it.

I guess what will happen in a given situation we deal with , what can happen hypothetically is also fine but we probably know it's the OCD beginning to take over.

Gray

[Guest Guppy]

I think what's interesting is that over the last few weeks I've had a couple of opportunities (unfortunately) to see what my actual response to a real problem of the sort which I have OCD about and it's completely different to when my OCD is doing it.

In a real crisis, I'm calm (adrenaline) and do what needs to be done and only have a massive freak out later.

When it's my OCD, it *starts* with the freaking out about hypotheticals which then results in me taking nonsensical precautions.

It's really been eye-opening.

[Guest yinyang]

The problem I have is where the line between a normal respect for hygiene/cleanliness is drawn and where OCD takes over

If the obsessions/compulsions are significantly making a negative impact on your life then I would say that's the line.

If I came in contact with contamination I would be satisfied with having a wash and probably wouldn't give it a second thought.

So in that respect I guess you could use me as an 'average' benchmark

Edited November 24, 2015 by yinyang

[Guest Growlingtiger]

Hi Guppy

I think your totally right on those observations.

In general where I can foresee a situation that's real and will happen in reality (an event ,appointment or meeting) I'm pretty sure it never actually plays out as I've imagined it would through my OCD goggles ... Almost always to my relief (as usually it's a far better outcome than I worried it would be)

Seems with OCD we can't quite win ...I worry about what might be but like you I tend to be fairly calm , I then flip post event into the mode of analysising what happened an replay different versions in my mind... It serves no real purpose but kicks off the cycle for me if I don't try and step in.

[nrh12]

Hi, thank you for the replies

I think part of the problem for me is that there is no benchmark for me, the contamination I worry about can't necessarily be seen, felt, or experienced in anyway. If I saw something on my hand or an object that was dirt or other contamination I would remove it and wash/clean and (assuming OCD didn't kick in) that's it. I appreciate some might say that if you can't see it, don't worry about it, but it isn't that easy and even people without OCD don't have such a "cavalier" attitude towards everything.

Thanks again

Neil

[PolarBear]

If you can't see it, feel it or experience it in anyway, is there really contamination?

[Guest yinyang]

I think part of the problem for me is that there is no benchmark for me, the contamination I worry about can't necessarily be seen, felt, or experienced in anyway

I was just using my contamination analogy as an example.

What your experiencing is essentially no different

[nrh12]

If you can't see it, feel it or experience it in anyway, is there really contamination?

I think you've hit the nail on the head as to my problem - I just have this obession with things being contaminated.

As an example of some of my past issues:

I stayed in a (nice) hotel and noticed a mark on a piece of upholstery, didn't think much of it at the time but after the stay thought it could be something untoward, I realised I had/belongings had probably touched it and then touched things of mine such as a fragrance bottle I had with me. I couldn't use that fragrance as I had "visions" of the nozzle being contaminated and spraying me with contamination.

I was at a friends, used their bathroom and dried my hands on the towel, fine. A few weeks later I learnt that towel had actually been used to clean up something no one would want on their hands and although it had been washed, there was a stain on it I didn't see. It didn't bother me too much at the time, but then many months latter I washing-up a dish I had brought home from there's that night and not used since. After the washing-up I kept thinking how I touched the dish after drying my hands, and worried there was something on my hands from now having washed it up.

There is of course one of my earliest posts on this forum... http://www.ocdforums.org/index.php?showtopic=62421&hl=%2Bseat+%2Btrain

I could go on, but you get the picture...

[PolarBear]

Break it down. You saw a mark on a piece of upholstery. Later you had an intrusive thought that the mark had contaminated things that were in the room. In response you performed a compulsion by avoiding the bottle of fragrance.

Same sort of thing with the dish. It was already washed after you used it at your friends. That should have been the end of it but you likely ruminated over the possibility of contamination.

You are overreacting to the presence of contamination. You have no proof that contamination even existed in either case. The mark on the furniture could have been anything. And although you say you know the towel was contaminated (and then washed) you made the jump to thinking the dish you had with you got contaminated from the towel. In both these cases a non-OCD person would not have thought about the possibility of some kind of contamination, let alone done anything about it.

You need to draw that line and you need to be brutal about it. Okay, if someone with a cold sneezes all over a dish, clearly the dish needs to be washed. If the dog pees on a piece of furniture then that needs to be cleaned. But seeing a mark doesn't mean anything. And if you're feeling anxious about possible contamination it's a good bet you're dealing with OCD and not a real concern. Watch those compulsions. They're making things worse.

[Handy]

If you can't see it, feel it or experience it in anyway, is there really contamination?

Yes, its invisible.

Logic trumps however.

[PolarBear]

A question I return to frequently and one can only suspect!!

[Caramoole]

A question I return to frequently and one can only suspect!!

In the interest of the forum and other users welfare it is an issue I have raised with the Moderating Team and should it continue to be unhelpful and downright detrimental to our users, we will have to consider where to go with this one.

[nrh12]

Yes, its invisible.

Logic trumps however.

Hi thanks for your reply, could you just clarify a little? Are you saying you have similar issues, or is th logic a different factor for you?

[nrh12]

A question I return to frequently and one can only suspect!!

A question I return to frequently and one can only suspect!!

In the interest of the forum and other users welfare it is an issue I have raised with the Moderating Team and should it continue to be unhelpful and downright detrimental to our users, we will have to consider where to go with this one.

Hi, has a post been removed? I can't see where the line originally quoted by PolarBear come from or what Caramoole is referring too.

Thanks

Edited November 25, 2015 by nrh12

[nrh12]

Break it down. You saw a mark on a piece of upholstery. Later you had an intrusive thought that the mark had contaminated things that were in the room. In response you performed a compulsion by avoiding the bottle of fragrance.

Same sort of thing with the dish. It was already washed after you used it at your friends. That should have been the end of it but you likely ruminated over the possibility of contamination.

You are overreacting to the presence of contamination. You have no proof that contamination even existed in either case. The mark on the furniture could have been anything. And although you say you know the towel was contaminated (and then washed) you made the jump to thinking the dish you had with you got contaminated from the towel. In both these cases a non-OCD person would not have thought about the possibility of some kind of contamination, let alone done anything about it.

You need to draw that line and you need to be brutal about it. Okay, if someone with a cold sneezes all over a dish, clearly the dish needs to be washed. If the dog pees on a piece of furniture then that needs to be cleaned. But seeing a mark doesn't mean anything. And if you're feeling anxious about possible contamination it's a good bet you're dealing with OCD and not a real concern. Watch those compulsions. They're making things worse.

Hi PolarBear, thanks for your reply

The problem with the towel issue is that I used it before leaving and then touched the plate bringing it home, the plate wasn't washed again after me touching it until the issue I mentioned above.

The situations I described above a reasonable typical, but there are situations where something is dirty and I worry about what has touched it.

The dog pee analogy you mentioned is actually a good one as this is similar to something that actually happened once. The dirt in this particular situation was worse than dog pee but it was on a carpet and wasn't discovered for a couple of months when a stain started to show and the carpet was cleaned. However, in between the carpet becoming dirty and being cleaned and staring from the day after it had become dirty I had vacuumed, placed various objects on the carpet on frequent ocassions etc. I then worried about the vacuum cleaner and the other objects being contaminated and spreading that contamination to other places.

Thanks again

Neil

[Caramoole]

Hi, has a post been removed?

Accidently

I was quoting a post and accidently deleted it. my apologies