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Guest gks444

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Guest gks444

I have not been "diagnosed" with OCD but it's the only thing that seems to fit.

At my worst I don't feel I can separate what I do/don't want, who I am exactly, what thoughts I do/don't mean. And some of the thoughts that come about are horrible. It's a constant cycle of trying to get to the bottom of all of it which I never seem to. Basically my head is a blur; I experience headaches from continuous overthinking. It seems to occur initially when I am in a relationship; constantly questioning how it should be, constantly seeking reassurance, constantly checking he's being faithful. That seems to be the start of it, then it just builds up for months until I explode and I don't feel I know anything. To the point where now I have broken up with my boyfriend, because I don't know how I feel at all now because of all the overanalysis and I just thought I can't bring him down on the basis of I don't know anything even though he wanted to be there for me. What if I work myself out and don't want us that would be so unfair on him (one of my thoughts for example). Will this always haunt me, how do I regain control?

I'm a nurse and I just feel worse thinking about other people's situations and my dad has cancer. And all of my problems are in my head. It just seems so selfish which only makes me feel worse.

I've been to the doctors before, had sessions of CBT but by the time I got it my thinking wasn't as bad, I'm on medication also. I just feel like I want someone to say that they know how I'm feeling. I feel like I won't ever be "normal." Like this will always ruin any happiness that I could potentially have.

Just looking for somebody to chat to that gets it.

Gem

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Guest Sisyphus

Hey Gem,

At my worst I don't feel I can separate what I do/don't want, who I am exactly, what thoughts I do/don't mean. And some of the thoughts that come about are horrible. It's a constant cycle of trying to get to the bottom of all of it which I never seem to. Basically my head is a blur; I experience headaches from continuous overthinking.

Well I've got OCD(the kind we're not supposed to refer to as "Pure O" on here) and what you've described there is very much what I experience. It varies day-to-day but some days it's just doubts about bad things that I try and rationalise through till I re-establish the truth and sometimes it's a real battle doing that. And doubts will trigger secondary doubts based on the first one. and so the crazy dance continues. These are *all* things that I *know* in my heart are either 100% false or as close to as anyone can reasonably say about anything in life. Yet they are still thrown into my lap, out of nowhere like screaming hot potatoes. And even though I know dealing with them just makes the porblem worse apparently, it feels so damned horrible during those moments that I've got nothing else left to do BUT deal with them. Which not only takes up a lot of time and energy, but no doubt makes me look like an absolute jerk in public and limits my life horribly. I get frequent headaches on these bad days - usually in the front right upper part of my head/brain. So it came as no surprise when the book I read about OCD, Brain Lock explained how that is one of the most active areas in OCD(frontal cotrtex I think it's called?). These headaches are often accompanied by excessive yawning, redness in the face, overheating, a suffocating feeling.

I've not personally experienced that particular issue with relationships(though plenty of other relationship doubts/problems instead) but I know from reading people's stories on here, that what you've described there is quite a common theme among folk with OCD.

By the way I tend to find this "introduce yourself" forum is on the quiet side in terms of responses so maybe try re-posting that issue on the OCD forums as well and see if you get a better response - up to you.

In the nicest possible way(honest!), I have to disagree that people's phsyical ailments supercede mental problems such as OCD. I think you're being way too hard on yourself there. Sure society's stigma may try and convince you that's the case, but that don't necessarily make it so now does it? If it wasn't a big deal then it wouldn't have caused you the very substantial problems you've described there, so that in itself attests to how serious a thing it is.

I wish you all the best in determining whether it's OCD and treating whatever it is. Have you asked your GP if you can see a consultant to try and determine whether it's OCD or something else. I reckon that could be a good starting point.

All the best,

David.

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Guest gks444

Hey.

Thanks to the both of you above for your replies.

I didn't know we weren't meant to say that. It seems to be for me that it doesn't come off and on randomly. It seems to build up, until the stress builds up so much; all my thoughts up to that point are seemingly "normal." Then it all gets too much without warning and I feel the lowest of the low and no longer have control over any of them and that's where the really unwanted ones come in. Attacking me while I'm down. It just seems one point I'm ticking over and the next I'm self-destructing.

I feel like I don't know what's real and what's not real anymore.

Anyway, I'll repost on the other forum. Thanks for your advice. I didn't know how to access someone higher up in the food chain (Consultant) and I'd feel like I was undermining my doctor doing that?

Gem.

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Guest Sisyphus

Hey.

Thanks to the both of you above for your replies.

I didn't know we weren't meant to say that. It seems to be for me that it doesn't come off and on randomly. It seems to build up, until the stress builds up so much; all my thoughts up to that point are seemingly "normal." Then it all gets too much without warning and I feel the lowest of the low and no longer have control over any of them and that's where the really unwanted ones come in. Attacking me while I'm down. It just seems one point I'm ticking over and the next I'm self-destructing.

I feel like I don't know what's real and what's not real anymore.

Anyway, I'll repost on the other forum. Thanks for your advice. I didn't know how to access someone higher up in the food chain (Consultant) and I'd feel like I was undermining my doctor doing that?

Gem.

Hi Gem,

Re: "Pure O": some people will break OCD down into different types. I don't know them all but there was COCD(contamination), Pure O(bad thoughts), POCD(paedopilia thoughts)others. I *think* OCD UK are just trying to break down all misconceptions about the disorder so that it can be better understood out there by the wider public/society/the media, so they are quite rightly saying that there is actually only one kind of OCD and, regardless whether your compulsions are carried out mostly in your mind or as cleaning, repeating, whatever, it all boils down to the same problem and internal process so it is just one thing - OCD. So I believe that's the thinking behind it, and that's why sometimes an administrator will remind people not to use those terms but sometimes people still do, myself included. So I probably shouldn't have said that in the first place.

Well all I can say is what you described in the first post sounded a lot like what I experience with OCD. Rather than switching off and on randomly, I suppose it would be more accurate to say that a trigger(obsession) will come into someone's head - an object, a word, a situation, a subtance, a smell - I think it could be just about anything - but due to bad associations that have built up with that thing in the person's mind, this trigger will suddenly throw the person into a state of high anxiety and stress, which in time will probably cause them to develop a strategy for shaking themself out of it(a compulsion). So not so much a gradual build up as a very quick onset. But what you said about - all getting too much without warning, feeling the lowest of the low, more unwanted thoughts coming in, not knowing what's real and what's not any more - those all do sound like OCD too.

Re: doctors/consultants: my knowledge is a bit sketchy here - as soon as I realised I had it, I booked an appoitment with the GP, and basically told him what I'd got and that I needed to see someone as a matter of urgency about it. He can be quite argumentative if he disagrees about something like that but he booked me an appointment with someone immediately without any problem. The only downside in my case was that there was a bit of a wait to see the guy and then a longer wait to be sent for CBT. Good old cutbacks I guess. But anyway the point I'm trying to make is that I got help without any problem.

But I've heard people on these forums discussing situations where such help has not been so forthcoming, and they are always told to quote NICE guidelines, which are some kind of national UK rules dictating what you are entitled to if you have OCD, and GPs have to adhere to these. I've just tracked something about NICE down on this website:

http://www.nice.org.uk/nicemedia/pdf/CG031quickrefguide.pdf

... I had a quick look and it says:

Adults with OCD or BDD

• In the initial treatment of adults with OCD, low intensity psychological treatments (including

exposure and response prevention [ERP]) (up to 10 therapist hours per patient) should be offered if

the patient’s degree of functional impairment is mild and/or the patient expresses a preference for

a low intensity approach. Low intensity treatments include:

– brief individual cognitive behavioural therapy (CBT) (including ERP) using structured self-help

materials

– brief individual CBT (including ERP) by telephone

– group CBT (including ERP) (note, the patient may be receiving more than 10 hours of therapy

in this format).

• Adults with OCD with mild functional impairment who are unable to engage in low intensity CBT

(including ERP), or for whom low intensity treatment has proved to be inadequate, should be

offered the choice of either a course of a selective serotonin re-uptake inhibitor (SSRI) or more

intensive CBT (including ERP) (more than 10 therapist hours per patient), because these treatments

appear to be comparably efficacious.

• Adults with OCD with moderate functional impairment should be offered the choice of either a

course of an SSRI or more intensive CBT (including ERP) (more than 10 therapist hours per

patient), because these treatments appear to be comparably efficacious.

• Adults with BDD with moderate functional impairment should be offered the choice of either a course

of an SSRI or more intensive individual CBT (including ERP) that addresses key features of BDD.

So I think you need to go to your GP, say you think you might have OCD, ask if you can see someone to diagnose it properly, and ask what help might be available. And *if* your GP is not forthcoming with any of the above, then quote these NICE guidlines to him.

However this is all completely new to me, so I would really appreciate it if you could ask about it on the main OCD forum as there will be people on there who know a little more about it or who have actually had to invoke these NICE rules in real life and may be able to give you some better advice about it. You may not even need it of course and your GP might just book you an appointment to see someone.

All the best,

David.

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Guest gks444

Ahhh I see. I think people might just use those terms to try to capture exactly what they're experiencing.

I feel like my new thing now is trying to find out if it is OCD I have and more specifically relationship OCD. Trying to find the answers as to whether I've done the right thing. I think maybe even if they said yes you did I'd still find doubts within that. It just seems if it's not one thing I'm going over it's another. I know that nobody can give me the answers/ tell me what's the right decision. But I just want to feel right.

I feel like what flipped me from manageable anxiety to self-destruct mode was the examination of my relationship and the doubts that had entered my head. Is it a high level of anxiety because of the OCD or because of the situation. Constantly chasing the answers aren't I!

I will definitely bear in mind that about asking the doctor. I do need to book an appointment anyway for more tablets. I just feel like I know they are knowledgeable but I just feel like not so much about this. I did show him the OCD thought cycle in my last apointment and he said the CPN will go through it with you. Everything seems so far apart and I dunno how to cope or find some sanity in the meantime! Also thanks for those NICE guidelines, I'll keep them in mind.

Gem.

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Guest Sisyphus

Ahhh I see. I think people might just use those terms to try to capture exactly what they're experiencing.

I feel like my new thing now is trying to find out if it is OCD I have and more specifically relationship OCD. Trying to find the answers as to whether I've done the right thing. I think maybe even if they said yes you did I'd still find doubts within that. It just seems if it's not one thing I'm going over it's another. I know that nobody can give me the answers/ tell me what's the right decision. But I just want to feel right.

I feel like what flipped me from manageable anxiety to self-destruct mode was the examination of my relationship and the doubts that had entered my head. Is it a high level of anxiety because of the OCD or because of the situation. Constantly chasing the answers aren't I!

I will definitely bear in mind that about asking the doctor. I do need to book an appointment anyway for more tablets. I just feel like I know they are knowledgeable but I just feel like not so much about this. I did show him the OCD thought cycle in my last apointment and he said the CPN will go through it with you. Everything seems so far apart and I dunno how to cope or find some sanity in the meantime! Also thanks for those NICE guidelines, I'll keep them in mind.

Gem.

Ah ok - so it looks like you've already made some progress with your GP regarding the OCD. Well that's good! Forgive me though, I thought you were new to it all, hence all the NICE stuff.

I don't think my GP knew anything about OCD, but luckily he knew well enough to signpost me to someone who did.

I've heard an awful lot of folks talking about relationship OCD on here so I think you'll get a decent response on that one - probably better on the OCD forums instead of htis "introduce yourself" forum though - it's just dead quiet in here for some reason!

Is it a high level of anxiety because of the OCD or because of the situation.

It's my understanding that it's a combination of our core fears and the OCD mechanism in the brain that results in these high levels of anxiety. OCD people are prone to getting temporarily trapped in this loop thinking mode. When that is combined with doubts/associations about our fears, this results in a prolonged state of high anxiety. And really the the compulsions are just tricks that we develop to shake ourselves out of that loop thinking mode back into normal brain activity. But unfortunately we tend to view the compulsions as tests/challenges/puzzles that must be solved/beaten in order to stop the bad thought becoming true, and that's when the trouble starts. And that's why CBT tries to make people see that the doubts and rituals have absolutely *zero* effect on the reality of the situation, and only serve to worsen the frequency and severity of the OCD. So like a Chinese finger trap, the more effort you put into thinking your way out of it, the more firmly it holds you in. So they try to wean you off your compulsions until this mechanism naturally atrophies into nothingness and your brain adjusts back to normal activity.

That's my understanding of it anyway.

I picked that up from reading a book called Brain Lock and probably various other articles I've read along the way. But of course I'm just a layman - you'd need a trained psychologist to give you a proper explanation about it all. They would hopefully do this at the start of CBT.

Feel free to ask if you've got any more questions though I may not know the answers.

All the best,

David.

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Guest gks444

No the NICE stuff is useful to know anyway and good for my nursing knowledge aswell!! I think my GP is aware of OCD but clusters it forward for the same sort of treatment and I know there are a lot of connections and similar symptoms across mental health problems. He doesn't really say anything when I go. And I don't think I'm very good at explaining the severity of how it affects me either.

You sound well informed about it. Do you find reading into it helped you overcome it?

I have made posts on other forum. Dunno why they don't just have one!

The loop thinking is the worst for me; it feels like most of my day is like going round and round in circles in my head; waiting to think something else that'll worry me. The whole pink elephant scenario!

It's hard to tell yourself you can't find the answers to something :/ I think the CBT I had before I'm not sure I utilised it to combat the OCD that I'm becoming more aware of; more just controlling my reaction to everyday stresses.

I like the chinese finger trap analogy! Normal, normal, normal...I'd love that!

Gem.

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Guest Sisyphus
gks444, on 08 Mar 2014 - 10:14 PM, said:gks444, on 08 Mar 2014 - 10:14 PM, said:

No the NICE stuff is useful to know anyway and good for my nursing knowledge aswell!! I think my GP is aware of OCD but clusters it forward for the same sort of treatment and I know there are a lot of connections and similar symptoms across mental health problems. He doesn't really say anything when I go. And I don't think I'm very good at explaining the severity of how it affects me either.

You sound well informed about it. Do you find reading into it helped you overcome it?

I have made posts on other forum. Dunno why they don't just have one!

The loop thinking is the worst for me; it feels like most of my day is like going round and round in circles in my head; waiting to think something else that'll worry me. The whole pink elephant scenario!

It's hard to tell yourself you can't find the answers to something :/ I think the CBT I had before I'm not sure I utilised it to combat the OCD that I'm becoming more aware of; more just controlling my reaction to everyday stresses.

I like the chinese finger trap analogy! Normal, normal, normal...I'd love that!

Gem.

Hi Gem,

Well maybe sounding well-informed and being well informed are two different things eh!? But thanks for that.

First of all, I have definitely not overcome it, though I am making some kind of progress here. I onbly found out I had it just over a year ago but have been suffering with it for at least 25 years that I'm sure of. So I think it's pretty hard wired but I am determined to keep trying and fighting it and to beat it. I mean what else is there to do. But I had a bit of a false start. It's a long story but I quit the first course of CBT and went and got a book instead. It took me an age to read the book(yes my OCD makes it difficult to read books!) but I read it and the idea was I would start meditating reguarly and then apply the self-directed therapy in the book. Well hard to really say what happened. I got a little side-tracked and in retrospect took too much of a half-arsed approach to it all. I barely started meditating in the end and never really applied the self-directed therapy. The OCD was very bad at the time though. That said, I do feel as though I have made some kind of progress - I have stopped doing some of the compulsions, and while some remain, I'm working on those best I can. Trouble is I find either new ones will spring up to take the place of the old ones or the remaining ones will kind of spread out to fill the available space if that makes any sense.

But I saw the doctor again and asked to see the mental health guy who signposted me to the CBT last time and I'm going to see about getting more CBT with a different therapist if it's possible.

I'm trying to avoid medication for personal reasons but I gather some of the best results are from people taking temporary medication combined with a course of CBT.

I certainly found reading about it in Brain Lock extremely interesting - so many moments of clarity where you identify with what is being described. I do feel that becoming educated about the nature of what causes it and how it works has helped me to some degree though clearly I've still got some ways to go. Knowledge is power and all that.

Yes I appreciate that feeling of waiting for the next one to hit and it taking up most of your day. Sadly this is how it's been for the longest time for me. Like your own mind actively trying to sabotage you, trip you up at any available opportunity. It really is a cruel affliction.

It is hard to tell yourself that yes I agree. I have a big problem with knowing when to quit at something. I'll just carry on and on and on. So I have thrown everything I've got at this thing and unfortunately it's eaten me for breakfast as a result. It's extremely hard for me to accept that I would have literally been better off doing nothing for all those years than doing what I thought was fighting it with the power of my mind. So cruel that it works that way. But we are lucky - if we were born 100 years ago, there would be no knowledge of all this, no books, no help and lord knows what would become of the likes of people with OCD.

I don't think I can take the credit for that finger trap analogy - I'm pretty sure it was either in Brain Lock or something else I read.

Yes normal sounds pretty darned good doesn't it. Well one day, one day .... cut to scene of me in old people's home crying out "yes I'm finally free of my OCD!" then croaking.

All the best,

David.

p.s. I noticed a load of typos in this message so went through and checked after - so I hope you read the version here and not the one that came in the email!)

Edited by Sisyphus
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Guest gks444

You say you've been suffering for 25 years. I feel like I can't cope with a life sentence of this. Doubts that stop my happiness. I feel like I've had enough already! I considered meditating or yoga but it's like I haven't got the "get up and go" to even try. Like what's the point. I don't even know where to start with it either. I don't even understand what my compulsions are, because everything feels so real. I guess one was all the questions I used to ask him. But now I'm not with him I can't even try and change that :(

I hope if I do get CBT this time I do put more into it but even CBT felt like an effort in itself. I think I might look into getting that book. I suppose I can take a small bit of comfort from not been born a 100 years ago. I just don't identify that OCD style thinking is kicking in till its to late and I'm breaking down. Feel so low :(

Your message was typo-less :)

Gem.

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Guest Sisyphus

Hi Gem,

I can totally identify with a lot of what you're saying there. I get extremely despondent like that too. And yes, I usually feel like I don't have the get-up-and-go for stuff like that too. I sometimes get an idea to do something and it's only *years* later I actually do it - actually that happens with just about everything. It's almost like I have to warm to an idea first, get acclimatised to it, get in the way of thinking, ask a billion questions, and only when I'm damned good and ready I'll actually go and try it. I've heard it said that OCD people don't like change so maybe this is related. I have noticed this aspect of myself and tried to fight it where I can but it is not easy. I think "secondary gains" is a recurring term with OCD - the bad kind which you can read about in Brain Lock, and the good kind where you make yourself do something like yoga and it gives you a better outlook or spurs you onto do something else good. It's not the be all and end all but it helps along the way.

I found that losing my job then losing my girlfriend in quick succession a couple of years ago really had a terrible effect on my OCD. It was already bad anyway but that just kicked it into overdrive somehow. I have been struggling with the GF stuff since but happily it has, as you might expect, diminished naturally over time. And I hope yours will too. Maybe it never goes away, but gradually just fades into the background until you can carry on normally. It's a terrible thing though. You've really got to become your own best friend when it's like that.

Re: having it 25 years: well that is true but I only *knew* I had it just over a year ago, so before that, any time I had a bad thought I threw everything I could at it to re-establish the truth and erase the bad thought or doubt. I believed I had to do this or I would be giving permission for the bad thing to become real. But apparently, by doing that, all I wasdoing was fanning the flames of OCD until it became a big problem. So now I know this and try ways of stopping myself reacting that way, even though sometimes I just can't stop myself. But then again, other times I can stop myself and I think that's important. The more I can stop myself responding to it like that the better - turning the tide slowly. But of course, like getting over a broken heart, it's a slow process. I think we need a lot of patience approaching this strange mind problem. No quick fix ... but apparently there is a fix, and it works. Death to OCD by a thousand cuts - that kind of deal.

So anyway my point there is that hopefully you won't have a life sentence of OCD because you know what it is and know what you need to do to overcome it. So hopefully it's just a matter of time. My circumstances were unusual I think - misdiagnosed multiple times with clinical depression. It was only pure luck that led me to realise I had OCD in the end.

CBT was a huge effort for me - I'm afraid I simply didn't get on with the counsellor in the end - they didn't seem to know much about OCD and criticised the way I described my OCD which I found frankly just bizarre given the contrext. So I knocked it on the head before the end and bought a book instead. But everyone here says CBT or CBT and meds is the key to getting over this thing, so I've reseolved to try it again if they'll allow me a different person this time.

I would recommend reading Brain Lock - I'm not a good reader and I often start and don't finish books, having to re-read a lot of it as I go because I didn't get it first time. It took me a long time to read that one. But I made myself finish it because I knew it was very important. And I did find what it discussed intriguing because it was an explanation for the way I am. And the guy who wrote it is very clued up about OCD. He ran a therapy group for OCD people at an Americna university and it recounts their problems and how some of them got better using the method discussed in the book. I mean just reading about their extreme OCD made me feel normal to be honest. Some shocking stories. At the very least it evokes some empathy.

Ah - my message was typo-less *after* I corrected all the horrendous typos!

All the best,

David.

Edited by Sisyphus
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Guest gks444

I just feel like I know all of the things that I should do but just want to scream at the top of my voice I DON'T WANT TO DO IT! I'm having a bad day today. I kept waking every hour of the night and been worried I couldn't go to work. I managed to get up, put my face on and everything. I drive to work get there, get handover and the minute a few people ask if I'm okay and I hear something I'm not 100% sure about I crack. I'm in tears and going home. Watching the me that carried on to work and got her life sorted disappear.

What are secondary gains? I feel like I should be trying all of these things. But I just watch myself not. I hope it stops affecting my relationships so much because I just want to be happy. I dunno about being my own best friend, I feel like I'm my own worst enemy at the moment. People say to me "Don't throw your life away Gem" and I just watch myself do it.

You must have gone through a huge amount of everything in 25 years. Well done!!!! 25 years of re-establishing the truth, you should actually give yourself a pat on the back! I'm pleased for you that you finally got a diagnosis. I hope I utilise CBT more this time and stick the the concepts and not let things slip. I'm the same with books but I'll give it a try!

Gem.

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Guest Sisyphus
gks444, on 11 Mar 2014 - 11:44 AM, said:

I just feel like I know all of the things that I should do but just want to scream at the top of my voice I DON'T WANT TO DO IT! I'm having a bad day today. I kept waking every hour of the night and been worried I couldn't go to work. I managed to get up, put my face on and everything. I drive to work get there, get handover and the minute a few people ask if I'm okay and I hear something I'm not 100% sure about I crack. I'm in tears and going home. Watching the me that carried on to work and got her life sorted disappear.

What are secondary gains? I feel like I should be trying all of these things. But I just watch myself not. I hope it stops affecting my relationships so much because I just want to be happy. I dunno about being my own best friend, I feel like I'm my own worst enemy at the moment. People say to me "Don't throw your life away Gem" and I just watch myself do it.

You must have gone through a huge amount of everything in 25 years. Well done!!!! 25 years of re-establishing the truth, you should actually give yourself a pat on the back! I'm pleased for you that you finally got a diagnosis. I hope I utilise CBT more this time and stick the the concepts and not let things slip. I'm the same with books but I'll give it a try!

Gem.

Hi Gem,

Well as the old rhyme/phrase/proverb(whatever the hell it was?) goes .... there's a time to be strong, a time to be weak, for all things a season. It probably doesn't even go like that and I just made it up but it kind of rings a bell from somewhere.

Anyway the point is that people can't be happy or strong or sociable etc all the time.I'd say that's especially the case for somebody with OCD. So you've got to know when you're weak and need to take it easy or step back from things a little. At the same time you've got to know when you're better and need to push yourself to do more. Of course with family & work commitments, sometimes you've got to push yourself when you're weak, which is a big problem isn't it. I struggle there. I imagine a lot of people with OCD do. I suppose it then comes down to how understanding your work and family are about it. No-one I worked with knew I had OCD on account I didn't know so lord only knows what they made of some of my behaviour. I did tell one guy I used to work with and he said he never noticed anything odd. Great that must mean I act like a jerk all the time then :(

I'm sorry you're going through that at work. 100% sympathy with you.

I've had sleep problems too. I used to sleep very well but as the OCD increased my sleep got a little strange. Either trouble getting to sleep, waking up a lot and struggling to get back to sleep, waking too early. Even being woken up by OCD thoughts *in* my sleep, which is always nice. Either way I found I was never getting enough sleep when I was working - somewhere between 4 and 5 hours a night. If you drink alcohol the night before as well it makes for a very interesting day at work some days. I think if I'd known what it was I might have handled it differently, but at the time that's the best I could do. I was a wreck most of the time honestly.

What you said about "your own worst enemy" made me laugh. I do know what you mean. I suppose I try to be positive about it all on here but my real life experience of OCD has been pretty grim really. I do hate this thing and wish I didn't have it - seems like an unfair handicap that I never signed up for. Seems too hard. But as I was saying to someone yesterday, sometimes you look around and all you see are shiny happy people and you think "why me?" but other days you hear that someone you know has a brain tumour in their 30s, or their kid has leukaemia etc etc etc. And you think "whoa, a *lot* of people out there also have problems, and quite a lot of them worse than mine apparently, so lets just get on with it best we can eh". Something like that anyway. I know that's not really the answer but it's another way of looking at it until something better comes along.

I was really hoping you'd ask about Secondary Gains(!) ... "to Google!" ...

OK so it's bene a long time since I read the book now and I had to refresh my memory. Here's the wikipedia definition:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primary_and_secondary_gain

So as I understand it, there's legitimate things OCD can cause problems with, e.g. Howard Hughes touching door handles, or me having a problem with certain words, but separate to all that, some OCD sufferers(and maybe we all do this to some degree?) may use OCD as an excuse to get out of things they don't like, or can't be bothered with or because they'd rather watch Celebrity Big Brother that's on in 5 minutes. And that's an example of secondary gains. I *think* it can also be applied to situations where partners or family members of the person with OCD use the OCD as a catchall for any aspects of the person's behaviour that they don't personally care for and want to change. So perhaps if the OCD sufferer wants to change the arrangement furniture in the living room, but the partner prefers it the way it is, they could say something like "no dear, that's just your OCD talking - be strong - lets fight it together!".

To be fair, when I was talking about a good version of secondary gains(like yoga giving you more confidence to do other things) in the other message, I was probably totally misusing the phrase, but it seemed to fit somehow.

Re: 25 years: well I guess I'd have to see how my life had been without OCD to know how much it's affected it. I know I've always found work difficult one way or another, but whether that's OCD or my personality, who's to say? I particularly found open office environments tough. When OCD's bad that's just the last thing I need. And the noise .... wow. Too much. I used to go out of my mind at the last place because it was a big open office with a lot of noise and bored people with not enough work to do, and my trusting bosses always insisted on seating us around the walls of the office facing outwards, so that they could watch what we were doing. So I couldn't see who was coming or going and sometimes the only warning that someone was there to see you was a shout in your ear or a hand on my shoulder. It made a bad situation much worse regarding my OCD and I ended up in a very bad way. Obviously I wouldn't advocate smoking as a lifestyle choice to anyone but I smoked at the time and those breaks were like a lifeline to me. It scares me now how I would cope without that to be honest.

But I think I could only conclude that it has impacted on my life in a negative way. I don't know - maybe there are some benefits to having this thing - maybe we're good at mental multi-tasking, maybe we're thorough? Maybe more resilient? Lots of people say OCD people are very creative.

On sum though, I wish I'd never had it.

But as the other saying goes, try wishing in one hand and #####ing in the other and see which gets full first. So we carry on and do our best to beat it don't we? Because it's the only game in town.

Have a better day Gem,

David.

Edited by Sisyphus
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Guest gks444

Thanks for sympathising, that helps in itself. I think I need to make allowances for myself at times. I strive ridiculously hard for perfection, I was 0.6% off a 1st in my degree and was so annoyed! But in that completely put aside what I had achieved. The same as in relationships, at times they can just be difficult. So I do need to take a step back which is easier said than done. I really struggled this morning but now I have a plan with work. I'm at the doctors tomorrow and I'm going to suggest a fit note that states amended duties. A bit of extra support until I'm on my feet again. Hopefully that will help because I DO want to go to work and be able to manage.



My problem is my job requires me to be at the top of my game and I'm my own biggest critic of that. So that thought is one of my biggest fears and I think what ultimately lead me to leave yesterday, the fact that I might not know what to do. I'm hoping that once I return (and stay); I pick up a little bit of confidence in myself and that it has a knock-on effect.



I agree, you have to find a way to deal with the life that is handed to you and there are always people that are in a worse situation. Also I sort of understand secondary gains now. And I have ordered myself a copy of Brain Lock; hopefully it will help me understand more! I'm hoping that I can overcome how I am at work, but nursing isn't the easiest of careers. But I DO want to try my best! I just worry about doing something wrong, like overly even when somebody tells me I'm doing it right!



I do agree with your list of benefits just need to focus on them more! I am creative and I've started sewing and drawing as methods of distraction! I like that way of looking at wishing, basically gets us nowhere; will try to do and not wish! Note to self!



Gem.

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Guest Sisyphus

Hey Gem,

Well if it's any consolation I'd have been ecstatic with a 2:1. So again, I guess it's all relative! I think maybe our society encourages us to compete against one another from an early age which can be a very toxic thing sometimes and results in us beating ourselves up over stuff like that. Crazy really because it means guaranteed unhappiness for the rest of your life as there's *always* going to be someone cleverer, faster, richer, etc. But we all do it to some extent don't we. What's wrong with us? Seriously???

Good luck with the fit note plan. Sounds like a good idea to me. Well done for taking some action and not denying the problem or brooding on it.

Unfortunately human beings are flawed creatures and just cannot be at the top of their game all the time. Not by a long shot. Not even brain surgeons or astronauts. So you're putting *way* too much pressure on yourself there. You can only do the best you can with how you are at a given time on a given day. There's going to be a whole range of good/bad in there but that's not your fault - that's simply how we are put togehter. Expecting perfection in any job is a big mnistake. There will be bad days and mistakes and decisions with no "good" choice, and horrible compromises. And those over you will know that and understand if they have any kind of life experience at all, otherwise they are naive and have unrealistic expectations. There's a huge gulf between mistakes, accidents, missing something unintentionally, and apathy, negligence, criminality. We have no business ever blaming ourselves for the former.

I hope Brain Lock turns out to be a good read. A couple of parts were hard to grasp for me but it's worth persevering with - and the rest of it is super interesting because it's so relevant to thing thing.

Well done on the sewing and drawing - I really need to do something like that too. Something meditative.

All the best to you Gem,

David.

p.s. by the way, this stuff is intended to be encouraging, *but* I'm a massive hypocrite - I beat myself up about not doing well enough and making mistakes all the time. And I put insane standards on myself. Thought you should know really cos it sounds preachy otherwise.

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Guest gks444

Yeah that is totally true, I don't know why we do that. Set ourselves up for defeat before we've started. If I was 0.1% closer to a 1st I would have had my degree bumped up! Annoyingly close! I do set myself really high expectations.

Sorting it with work went well. Doctor has wrote me a note for 2 weeks of amended duties and altered hours. Manager has agreed for me to go in for a few hours tomorrow and same after the weekend and work alongside someone. Best I could have asked for but still really worried. And don't want to deal with everyone asking me if I'm okay 'cause it just makes me remember that I'm not. I am putting in to place lots of distraction at home but I'm struggling with wanting to meet friends etc. I felt most comfortable around my ex partner and family and now I do not have my ex anymore. I saw him the day before yesterday and talked about how I am but it inevitably turned to what was happening with us and became instantly hard for me and confusion/doubt is there straight away and I can't think. I really want to get myself to a place where I want to do things and I'm not just doing them as a distraction from my own mind. Tried to do three things today: call work (done), go out to the park with family (done), drawing (not yet done). So progress but I'm really having to force myself. And I feel like its the depression that comes in waves, one minute I'm okay doing what I'm doing and the next minute I have a huge sense of dread!

That such a good way of looking at perfection at work. Thanks. Must convince myself that I can only do my best at work! Brain Lock arrived today too. My mum has started reading it too! I'm hoping it gives me some answers or at least understanding. I just need to be able to identify (when I'm over this dip) when I'm starting to go again before it happens. I just want to go back to thinking what I think and wanting what I want.

Yeah start something creative! Both of the activities aren't too taxing but take up enough brain power to distract me from overworking my brain. Also I haven't felt that you have been "preachy" at all; it's just advice whether you follow your own advice is a different story. I'm brilliant at giving advice and planning what I should do but when it comes to doing it myself; not so successful.

Gem.

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Guest Sisyphus

I know - I'd have been annoyed by that too to be fair. I think we are programmed from an early age to think this way. Great for making stuff quick and making profit, not so good for our mental well being. But we've never known any different so we mostly don't question it.

Oh I'm glad it went well at work. 2 weeks? Sheesh - "don't knock yourself out there doc".

I got a sick note off my GP recently and it was like getting blood out of a stone seriously. I swear either he thinks I'm putting on OCD or he doesn't believe it's a real thing or just doesn't like me. I explained how I haven't worked for a long time and haven't even been claiming benefits, have been living off my own savings - totally unimpressed. The last few visits have been like something out of a comedy show. The last time he was just sooooo curt and couldn't get me out of the room quickly enough, I literally just stood up, looked him in the eye, sighed a big old sigh, laughed loudly at just how pointedly bad the visit was, and walked out. I've seriously got to change doctors now. I mean you can take a bad joke so far. He's got a worse bedside manner than that crazy lady out of "Misery". Anyway enough about that, Sorry.

It sounds like a good arrangement that reduced hours thing. Seriously well done for taking some action on that. It takes some courage but it's important to do it or you'd grind yourself down and could end up with worse problems as a result. Harder than it sounds taking action like that. Hard to battle through the doubt and stigma etc. Hard to see it clearly. I never did so well on that front and ended up hammering myself into the ground.

Yes I would hate this over-compesnation of "ahhh - how are you today" every 5 minutes. I think people genuinley struggle to know how to deal with something like this. I think I would too to be fair. In my last job, we had a guy moved into our office from another department. He'd had a bad breakdown and was certified for a while. People were very stand-offish to this guy - gave him a wide berth. I really made an effort to talk to him and go for a cigarette with him and stuff, but I tell you what, it did not come easy to me on top of work and everything. I felt very uncomfortable around him and it was a constant effort. But after a while we became quite close(well as close as males ever do in a work environment). And the punchline to that story is I told him I had OCD in an email about a year ago and never heard back from him again. BOOM BOOM! You've got to laugh at these little gifts in life.

Seriously though Gem - there are A LOT of people out there with OCD, stress, anexiety, other mental problems now - it's a reflection of the times we live in, the increasing pace of everything, the competition, the rising prices, the impossible debts. I was talking to the nurse at the GPs about it just the other day - she said that's why the waiting lists are so long. So it's not as rare or shameful as we were brought up to think - the likelihood is everyone probably knows somebody with such problems. And your work is obliged to recognise that and accommodate it. Well within limits anyway. So I wouldn't worry - let them worry now - you've worried enough already!

I do know what you mean about being most comfotable around your ex. Alas I experienced the same damned thing. Man - there's no answer for that one. It's a kick in the teeth and only time can make it fade away so you can get back to something like normal. It's no consolation in the meantime though. I really hope you can cope with it and find a way of moving on with your own life somehow. It totally sucks Gem. I'm sorry.

Oh good - I hope Brain Lock is good and helps with your understanding of OCD. You're lucky your mum's reading it - my mum didn't want to know about OCD. It's like a dirty word to her. She also thinks I'm putting it on I suspect. I don't blame her - very different world they grew up in. She's a good person but just doesn't understand about it.

I would like to go back to that as well. Just to feel like I used to most of the time. Without these tedious constant trap doors and sneak attacks and standing on rakes. Like the doctors, you can take a bad joke so far. Gets kinda boring after a couple of decades.

I like this creatvie idea. I recently started yoga and I think it's helping on some level, though it's tough with OCD obviously. I hope I can keep it up. But I think maybe I need something creative as well. It's just time. I feel like I have about 1% of the quality time everyone else has because of all this nonsesne I have to contend with in my head. I find it hard to justify doing these other things. Though when I look at how I waste my time like a zombie sometimes I could just as well be doing the creative thing instead. I guess it's not just time is it - I need to feel like I have the right head on me to do these things, otherwise it just doesn't really work for me. Like a block.

Thanks for saying it wasn't preachy.

Well done on your swift progress!

David.

p.s. had to edit it again cos tons of typos so hope you read it on here and not in the email

Edited by Sisyphus
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Guest gks444

Yup 2 weeks. But my employer has said she understands that I may need longer. The 2 weeks this time has overlapped with annual leave. But even after that she has taken me off the shift the day after my CPN appointment. So they have dealt with everything well at the moment. Work actually went well today, granted it was a less busy day than normal but just the fact I got there, managed and answered everyone's "are you okays" is a good thing. Got similar shifts next week too.

I would strongly advise that you swap GPs. I can see anyone when I book a doctors appointment but have been seeing the same one recently. Just cause I don't have to go through everything when I go. The one time I went to the doctors and I wasn't well (throat infection), needed more contraceptive prescribing and was getting overwhelmed with stress. The doctors said well we only have 10 minutes so I'll have a look at your throat (needed antibiotics) and prescribe your pill and you can leave the stress till next time. I was appalled, when really the stress was actually the main thing that I was struggling with! Not seen her again!

As if you never heard off him again! Why do you think that was? I am very selective over who I tell anything too. Several people know I have stress and anxiety, one close friend and my ex know how I overthink and how out of control I feel and my parents know everything. It's hard for other people to understand. That's why it's nice being on here because I feel like you only fully understand when you've been there yourself! There's a few people I know that would probably be like "what's wrong with you, just get on with it" but I just don't really choose to open up to them.

I think I've been able to fit in more time to be creative because I keep waking up early. As soon as I open my eyes in the morning it all hits me. My worst time of the day, so the extra hours I've been able to do more with. I want to try yoga...do you use a CD of your own or go to a class? I'm the same with doing things, I have to want to do it not just think I should. But maybe sometimes if I give myself a shove in the right direction I might like things I avoid!

Gem.

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Guest Sisyphus

Hi Gem,

Good - your employer sounds pretty cool with it so far then. I hope the new shifts work out for you.

Yes I need to make that call to change GP. I guess I worry about the break in continuity but seriously - this joker makes so little effort I think it will make no difference anyway! I mean I've known the guy for like 20 years and he talks to me like I'm some stranger that just broke into the building. Doctor Jerk!

I too had that "well you can pick 2 things then" response. Like it's the 10 penny mix at the sweet shop.

I'm not sure why I didn't hear off that guy again - perhaps it was too close to home to deal with - who knows.

I think it's wise to be selective - I have told a couple of people I probably shouldn't have and got the kind of response you'd expect.

Yes at least on here you know most people reading it should have some understanding of what it is and not be shocked or appalled by what you're saying and you can be honest about it wihthout fear of shame or ridicule etc.

Mornings are usually the worst time for me too. It varies of course but mornings are usually bad. When I was working they were always very bad. It's like your defences are down and the floodgates suddenly open. It's good you can apply yourself to something with the extra time - well done.

I was going to do a DVD but realised I dont really have enough room to do it so signed up to a class. It's Astanga yoga which ideally means flowing from one posture(asana) into another continuously, almost like a dance. Whereas the popular one historically was Hatha which I believe is just doing the postures separately with a little rest in between. It certainly gets me to work up a sweat. I can't do all the positions yet though some I have to just get as close as I can to it. Luckily it seems to be all inexpereinced people so far. If it weren't for OCD I think I#d say it's fantastic, but with OCD it's an interesting challenge ;)

I certainly have to kind of mentally trick myself into doing some things that I would naturally pull back from. But I also know where to draw the line because it would just be too much bad and not enough good. You've got to get some good out of it or what's the point?

David.

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Guest gks444

It'll be the test when I'm not an extra anymore and I go back to having responsibility but then that's when I need to slow myself down and give myself some credit! I would say that the distress caused by a break in continuity won't be anymore than distressful than his laughable approach at the moment!

Yeah I would say that by the end of the day I have built up mechanisms to cope with what the day throws at me but the morning is like a car crash in my head!

I've done one type of yoga and it must have been the one with gaps in between. I'm going to try and start it. I'm not the most flexible of people though! Yeah true, it's like I do want to get back into the gym. I used to go at least 3 times a week. But my motivation to go again is zero. But I know once I get into a routine I'll feel better going.

Gem.

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Guest Sisyphus

It'll be the test when I'm not an extra anymore and I go back to having responsibility but then that's when I need to slow myself down and give myself some credit! I would say that the distress caused by a break in continuity won't be anymore than distressful than his laughable approach at the moment!

Yeah I would say that by the end of the day I have built up mechanisms to cope with what the day throws at me but the morning is like a car crash in my head!

I've done one type of yoga and it must have been the one with gaps in between. I'm going to try and start it. I'm not the most flexible of people though! Yeah true, it's like I do want to get back into the gym. I used to go at least 3 times a week. But my motivation to go again is zero. But I know once I get into a routine I'll feel better going.

Gem.

I bet bad mornings are a common feature among OCD folk.

Well - this Astanga particularly hammers your ham strings. Not so bad for me because I used to stretch a lot for running so I've got some flexibility there, but they still ache afterwards for 2 or 3 days. It's just a lot of ham string stretches. And obviously it comes to how far you push the stretch. I tend to overdo exercise for some reason. I am not that flexible otherwise though - there's a handful of poses I can;t do because I just don't ben that way yet. But luckily the others in the class can't do most of those either. It certainly gets a sweat up. You have to do a lot of these vinyasa(sun worship) postures and that's what gets me - I would post a link but I've already been told off for posting a youtube link on this forum so I'd better not!

I personally couldn't stand the public(showing off) aspect of the gym and the lack of cleanliness there - they just didn't clean the place properly and this was supposed to be one of the best gyms around. Oh and that's not even coming from an OCD standpoint - it really was disgusting. So I packed it in and started exercising at home instead. Trouble is I can't do the running part any more, which just kills me, so that's why I'm doing yoga instead.

Well don't try and walk before you can run Gem. Take advantage of those new hours to read that book and work on your understanding of OCD. Then maybe try to do the 4 steps method on your own or wait for CBT or both. It will likely require a fair amount of time and patience though. This was the aspect I struggled with. I wanted a quick fix to this thing I'd been carrying around for so long.

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Guest gks444

I'm aching enough for one day. I lived on the second floor and moved out yesterday, carrying heavy things up and down two steep flights of stairs! I overdo exercise when I do, do it aswell. It's like I have to push myself further each time I go or I'm not satisfied. Wonder if its an OCD trait.

I've been feeling loads better in the last two days. Not feeling so down, relabelling any thoughts that come into my head fairly successfully. I still worry as soon as I start thinking of my relationship, I'm not sure I am ever going to find a definitive answer with that. I've started reading Brain Lock. After reading it now though I'm worried that my OCD comes and goes and I'm not like everyone I'm reading about. So if it's not OCD I don't have the whole thing I rely on..."It's not me, it's OCD." Surely however it manifests the solution is still the same? Without the explanation I am lost. Most of the time I think I manage it (although I don't think correctly) but it's when I get over-stressed I breakdown and feel completely out of control. Hmmmm...I almost need the reassurance that it is that! Maybe scrutinising that is OCD in itself :/ and I should just go with what works

I've bought some exercise DVDs to do at home, gotta try and motivate myself to do them before joining a gym because I know I won't go!

Gem.

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Guest Sisyphus

Hi Gem,

Ouch - I hope youy had some help with all that. Moving is exhausting.

Maybe that exercise thing is OCD - it's bloody annoying whatever it is - I've done myself a lot of injuries that way. Just overdoing it for no good reason. I guess that's another reason a class is good because I have to follow the guy doing it.

Glad you are feeling better and relabelling succefssfully. That's a hell of a good start you know. I think it took me a good year to start recovering from my last relationship ending but I think this was exacerbated by other things and OCD. Bottom line - it takes time one way or another and it sucks until it passes. And maybe one day we look back and say "you idiot - why did you beat yourself up so much over that" or "why did you put that person on a pedestal like that?" but it's sure hard to see it that way at the time I know.

QuoteAfter reading it now though I'm worried that my OCD comes and goes and I'm not like everyone I'm reading about. So if it's not OCD I don't have the whole thing I rely on..."It's not me, it's OCD." Surely however it manifests the solution is still the same? Without the explanation I am lost. Most of the time I think I manage it (although I don't think correctly) but it's when I get over-stressed I breakdown and feel completely out of control. Hmmmm...I almost need the reassurance that it is that! Maybe scrutinising that is OCD in itself :/ and I should just go with what works

Now, I'm not sure if I've understand this correctly - are you saying you're not sure whether you have OCD? Cos if that's what you're saying then that's fine - that comes up a heck of a lot on these forums. I think it's just a really tricky thing to establish and can easily be mixed up with other things. I missed it at least twice on my travels before I found out that's what I had, and I was *desperately* looking for a match. So if that's the case, that's cool and we'll take it from there.

But I'm not sure if that's what you are saying so just want to make sure first.

Well - think of all the petrol/time/money you will save not going to a gym - exercising at home is better if you can do it, but obviously takes a bit of self-discipline and kicking yourself up the proverbial sometimes. That reminds me - I should do some exercise round about now!

OK - to be continued...

David.

Edited by Sisyphus
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Guest gks444

Well I think my breakdown this time round was related to the amalgamation of all that I had put on myself...starting a new job as a newly qualified, my dad being ill, relationship problems. All of which led me to become very stressed on a daily basis like before anything stressful occurred in my day. Then I think when it all exploded the more disturbing, intrusive thoughts snook in. And because my stress and anxiety was sky high I sort of lost control of my head. Having moved home I haven't got the stress of maintaining the flat (which I massively stressed about) and whether or not the relationship could have worked or not has dulled down now I'm not living with him. And have commenced medication, about two weeks ago now. Previous to this "episode" I had a couple more starting when I was 16 where I had thoughts (I still don't like saying aloud) and it took me a few months to get over them seeing the CPN, medication with CBT and applying the fact that they are just thoughts and to beat them you have to break the cycle of how they work. Obviously I've done a fair amount of reading into relationship OCD and feel that, that has a part to play. I havent been given a diagnosis other than "stress and anxiety". And I've been getting over it each time using the OCD approach (which works) without knowing it is that. Obviously I know it's a spectrum and maybe I'm there somewhere. But it feels like if I don't have OCD as the answer then how can I deal with it like I have. Dunno what to think really, I would say when I'm "well" I just manage it (maybe with compulsions) but I don't think it impacts on my daily functioning. But then when things build up it does massively and I'm depressed aswell. I feel like it was this understanding that saved me and I'm scared that without that I'm back to where I started. When I'm unwell there is no doubt that my thoughts cycle in the same way to Pure O with my compulsions being either telling someone, reassurance, trying to find the "right" feeling. But does OCD take its hold before then just mildly. Suppose I will raise all of this with my CPN and see what she says but I want to understand it so I don't get to the place I got myself in this time, or know so I can prevent it affecting my relationships/life etc. Confused.com!

I wouldn't say I'm recovered from my relationship breakdown more that because I'd analysed it to much and tired my brain I've stopped doing that as much now. So I dunno what to think about it cause I was trying not to think. If that makes any sense. Hmmmmm...

from one confused soul!

Edited by gks444
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Guest Sisyphus

Hi Gem,

I've read your message a couple of times and I still can't decide if you're after an opinion as to whether it's OCD or not so I'm going to hold off on commenting on that until you confirm that. Sorry if I've missed anything there though.

It certainly sounds like you've had a hell of a lot to contend with, with your father being ill and the new job and this relationship problem all at once. Obviously that's a crucible for stress/anxiety and maybe other mental problems.

Either way it's got to be a good thing you left that flat as obviously that's loaded with memories and associations.

Well if the CBT approach is working at addressing whatever it is, be it stress/anxiety or OCD, then I guess keep doing it. If it aint broke don't fix it kind of thing.

I think I know what you mean about analysing the relationship so much that your brain just numbs to it. Mine's mostly faded away but it doesn't help that there are constant reminders in our culture about relationships and all that. Can grate on you if you don't want to think about it. Songs/movies are the worst I find!

Well I was managing with my OCD for years before I was made redundant. Good and bad days and the bad days weren't pretty, but I had to keep doing my work one way or another. I even got some very good work done - I think throwing myself into certain projects was a refreshing distraction from the OCD stuff. It's not that simple but *somehow* it seemed to take the heat off all of that in some ways. Temporary though.

I really hope things are turning around for you there Gem, and let me know if I've misunderstood anything there or if you did indeed want an opinion on whehter it's OCD or not.

Cheers

David.

Edited by Sisyphus
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