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I Am Stuck But I Don't Know Why?


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I am stuck by not understanding why, when we forum members explain to a sufferer that their problem is OCD, and why, and what action they need to take to tackle it, and why short term pain in exposure and anxiety (which will fall after the exposure) will result in long term gain, they can't seem to buy into it.

I don'understand why they don't seem able to see this, and do the necessary behavioural therapy work. There just seens to be a denial response.

Does anyone have any ideas as to why this happens? It is so sad because I truly believe they will get better if they are only able to carry out what is suggested.

Edited by taurean
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Guest Gloria123

Hi taurean

I haven´t posted for a quite long time but just saw your post and think your question is very interesting. I thought about that a lot of times, too...It´s weird because rationally I know it and know hot ocd works and know a lot about mental disorders (I´m on my way to become a therapist on my own) but sometimes I seem to be unable to put this knowledge into action.
In my case I know that it´s because of a low self-esteem...if you are not really self-confident and if you don´t love yourself and you don´t trust in yourself, if you even don´t really know who you are, it´s quite hard to calm yourself down by saying "It´s okay. I know deep inside that I´m a good person and am not my thoughts"...it´s what I felt a lot....it didn´t trust in myself that I´m good. There were a lot of people in my life that criticized me a lot and that was something I believed.

Another thing is routine...ocd and the constant worry and rumination is part of my everyday life....I think that one is also quite afraid of being "free".

The last point might be because of people living in their "pain body" (it´s a word Eckhart Tolle used, don´t know if somebody knows him?)....when we are ill, we seem to identify a lot with our disorder and sometimes feel to live in a victimrole and it´s hard to get out of this again. I used to realise that when I wanted to start meditation etc. I somehow KNEW that it would help me and that I would feel better afterwards but when it comes to meditation I had a lot of excuses....so I went on feeling bad

Hope my English is quite understandable.

Have a nice evening

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That is interesting insight both of you. But its something that has to be overcome for each of us where we are stuck to break free of the monster.

Interesting comment that we sort of feel "comfortable " being with our thoughts, even though they actually holds us back and makes us ill. I think you are right, but if we can between us find a few ways of tackling this, we'll be able to help others.

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Does anyone have any ideas as to why this happens? It is so sad because I truly believe they will get better if they are only able to carry out what is suggested.

I can give my take on it. I was one of those people.

I think a big part for me was not comprehending the idea of what was happening. That the automatic thoughts I was having were rooted in cognitive distortions and these thoughts were producing the anxiety. I'd be thinking they don't understand me: I stepped in dog poo. Real mushy brown dog poo. I don't want to get me or my daughter sick. I did not have the ability or the education to understand there is a pattern at work and pick out that OCD was at work. Yes, dog poo is gross. Yes, I might get sick. My daughter could go blind if this and that were to happen in a specific sequence under ideal conditions. As much as I saw all of the possibilities my brain focused on the worst possible scenario and wanted me to eliminate the risk altogether to get some peace.

In those situations I was coming here for help when things were desperate. It was far beyond what we'd do in a graduated exposure. I was being flooded and it's too much. To be told to continue with the exposure and ride out the anxiety - the anxiety wasn't reducing. In fact, most exposures up until the cognitive bit kicked in resulted in regret and more fear. I used to get quite upset knowing how people were genuinely trying to help but I couldn't see what good it did and became more and more scared.

Becoming more familiar with what the cognitive side is doing (both from a treatment and mistreatment point of view) helped me see the small exposures were changing things. ACTUALLY changing things. And that it was the way I was thinking, not the situation, that was keeping me trapped. Not some trick I had not figured out.

That's just me. Your mileage may vary. I'm glad nobody gave up on me even when I felt I'd given up on myself. I owe a big debt of gratitude to many people here knowing what they were telling me was what I needed, even if I did not understand at the time.

I'll never be the poster boy for recovery. I know I still struggle. But something changed in the thinking. The world didn't become cleaner or less clean in the last year, but something changed.

Edited by PaulM
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Guest nicolam381318

This is a very interesting topic because I've always struggled with the exact opposite question. We spend years performing compulsions to keep a certain consequence at bay so how do we persuade ourselves overnight that it's OK to take the risk and engage in ERP? We know that it has to be done if we are going to get well but how do we find the courage to ignore those years worth of anxiety and just see what happens? Of course, the answer is "we just do it without thinking" and eventually we will see the anxiety fall away but it's taking that first serious step that I have found so incredibly hard. Good support is essential, I think, somebody in the background making you believe you can do it despite every part of your body telling you that you can't. I spent all day lying on the sofa yesterday, I could barely find the energy to feed my children. Today would have gone the same way except for someone on here reminding me that it's the OCD restricting my behaviour, nothing else. It gave me the courage to get up and out. I had a great time and so did my kids (helped by the mouthfuls of Halloween sweets, I think). I'm no expert in this but I do think it can be difficult to find the self-motivation sometimes when you are dealing with it alone. It's a lot of over-thinking to be unthought all by yourself.

Edited by nicolam381318
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As someone that does give out advice, I do struggle to apply what I've said to others on myself, honestly. Again, it comes down to confidence, and facing your fears. Particularly when my thoughts are especially nasty at the moment, but ERP is a means to an end, and will definitely try. I always think it's worth a go to see what happens. As you've mentioned taurean, there is an element of Stockholm Syndrome, where you feel comforted that you've reacted in a certain way to an intrusive thought. But that's a compulsion! And ERP teaches us that whatever our thoughts say and show us, really the worst is not going to happen, however hard we try.

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I feel my problem is low self esteem and low confidence for sure.

Hi Nikki,

I am struck by your reference to low self-esteem. I have identified this as a major factor contributing to, and maintaining my OCD. Please check out the thread that I started on here entitled 'Time to get to grips with OCD'. Hope you find it useful.

Anon

Edited by Anon
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I think it's very hard to go from 'safety' ie performing compulsions to what is perceived to be danger. It does take a massive leap of faith to ignore the blaring alarm going off telling you you're in terrible danger. Whatever the theme. It's very very tough mentally to overcome that fear. And it's very easy to tell someone it's safe to let go, but not so easy to let go yourself. I spent so many years reading everything there was to know about causes, treatments etc. but never committed to doing what needed to be done. I like an analogy so here's one - I took my children climbing once, and I was in charge of the belay - ie keeping them safe and from falling off. When they reached the top, I shouted for them to let go and I let them down. It was easy for me to see it was safe and they trusted me and let go. Then it came to my turn. I am terrified of heights. I got to the top and they shouted at me to let go. I was shaking with fear and couldn't do it. The only way I would know it was really safe was by letting go. But if it's wasn't safe and I let go, I would die. I thought about staying there all day, quaking with fear, stuck at the top, hoping someone may come and rescue me. But in the end I just let go. And this seems to be the problem, with OCD you only know it's safe once you have started to let go. Our compulsions keep us safe, but terrified, and stuck. Has anyone ever fallen off a climbing wall? Probably. There is no 100% guarantee that we will live a life free from pain or suffering. But for me the leap of faith was worth it.

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So interesting. At my last therapy session my therapist identified my severe low self esteem and low confidence in my own judjement. We are going to be working on that. For me low self esteem and no confidence in myself are the roots of my anxiety. Xx

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Guest nervous

good question, I can offer my insight, I have severe ocd and recently I have been making some good progress finally. I feel that someone who is really suffering the illusion that the ocd presents is too realistic to believe that it could be wrong. In my past I have horrible horrible experiences that I did manage to wait out and the next day the anxiety went down and the thought was still there but didn't seem as important. I remember thinking, "how odd" like I just couldn't believe that I no longer feel the same way about the same event. Sadly each new event that came up it seemed like I learned nothing, it was never any easier. Even now that I am doing much better I still find OCD more believable than anything someone or logic would suggest. I am at the point that many times I can take a leap of faith even though everything in me is telling me not to but when I was in a real bad state there was almost no way to do this.

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I think a big part of it is as others have said. After reacting the same way for 5, 10, 15 or more years to intrusive thoughts, it's just really hard to let go and react differently. There is like an alarm going off inside your head, demanding you do something, in a particular way. It's very hard to switch gears and do the opposite.

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For me low self esteem and no confidence in myself are the roots of my anxiety. Xx

Hi Lyn,

Same for me. May I suggest a book that may be of interest? It is called "Overcoming Low Self-Esteem" by Melanie Fennell. It is one of the most helpful books I've read in coming to terms with the causes of my anxiety disorder. In fact, when first reading it, I felt at times that I was reading a book that explained why I had developed an anxiety disorder in the first place. It is a self-help guide using CBT. There is a compelling quote on the front cover by Dr James Le Fanu saying 'Cognitive behavioral techniques are, in my opinion, the most effective form of psychological therapy for emotional disorders'.

Anon

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I think a big part of it is as others have said. After reacting the same way for 5, 10, 15 or more years to intrusive thoughts, it's just really hard to let go and react differently. There is like an alarm going off inside your head, demanding you do something, in a particular way. It's very hard to switch gears and do the opposite.

Hello PolarBear,

My hunch is that parts of the limbic system within the brain become over-sensitized so that they send out warning signals when it is not appropriate to do so. The reason for this may be the result of repeated or long-term stress at some point in life. The amygdala within the brain seems to be closely connected with the survival instinct, thus attempting to protect us from perceived dangers.

Anon

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I have another viewpoint.

My new therapist is using a little mindfulness based cognitive therapy (MBCT) with me to help me be the impartial observer and be with my thoughts but actually detached from them and watching them but weaning me away from the intense desire to try and do something about them.

This is caused by the active part of the brain, and from MBCT I am understanding that it is this active part of our brain that makes us engage ruminate seek re-assurance.

By switching off that active response and transferring to the "being" part of our brain I now see that we can stop the damage from the thoughts engage ourselves into the present and can then move towards effective distraction and defusion of unwanted negative automatic thoughts such as OCD thoughts.

Edited by taurean
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I have another viewpoint.

My new therapist is using a little mindfulness based cognitive therapy (MBCT) with me to help me be the impartial observer and be with my thoughts but actually detached from them and watching them but weaning me away from the intense desire to try and do something about them.

This is caused by the active part of the brain, and from MBCT I am understanding that it is this active part of our brain that makes us engage ruminate seek re-assurance.

By switching off that active response and transferring to the "being" part of our brain I now see that we can stop the damage from the thoughts engage ourselves into the present and can then move towards effective distraction and defusion of unwanted negative automatic thoughts such as OCD thoughts.

Hello taurean,

What you are describing is an effective way of dealing with the very problem that I have described. In other words, the brain sends out these warning signals but mindfulness is a way of distancing ourselves from the brain's chatter. We are not in disagreement.

Anon

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Then you are stuck with the active part of the brain taking you round and round seeking solutions you can't find maybe?

Looking to switch to the being mode could make a significant difference?

Edited by taurean
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My fear is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyy stronger than my logic.

I can relate to that 100%. And I still have not found a satisfactory way of dealing with the fear/anxiety when it gets that bad. Fighting it off by applying reason only makes it worse. I resort to distraction or acceptance of the feeling.

Anon

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Guest Sally44

I think it is OCD itself that causes this problem. OCD is also called the doubting disease.

It is something I recognise in my son and also in many posts.

The thing is that OCD distorts reality. OCD makes you feel that your obsessions are genuine and valid and that your compulsions are the right thing to do. When you are in that mind set you cannot see what is OCD and what isn't. Even if someone says "that is OCD" it is the same as offering "reassurance", it is a temporary thing. And so they doubt it, as they doubt everything.

OCD gives the person a real belief that IF they just do what their thoughts are telling them to do that that will resolve the problem.

I would compare it to the state of mind you are in when you are coming out of a deep sleep. That time when you are maybe still in a dream, but you realise it is a dream and you are waking up into the real world. I think that those people in that state of mind CAN recognise the OCD better, or at least see the possibility of the "real" world and how that would be.

For others they are still in the dream and there is no insight into "another way of living" or another response that would actually help them.

The only similar thing I have had that I could compare to what I think is happening is when I separated from my first husband. I married in love and intended to stay married until I died, but the marriage failed. That made me very unsure about ALL decisions I made and whether they were the right ones and made meanxious about other decisions I had made and whether they would all turnout to be the wrong decision too. But this didn't get so bad that it become a mental health disorder. Just a very difficult period of my life. And what I did to help myself was actually really touch. I moved completely away from my old life - home - job - family - friends and even moved to another country and started all over again. It may sound severe, but that is what I needed to do. I felt I had to get out of the forest because I had taken the wrong track and get into a new environment and follow a different path. Don't know if that makes sense to anyone else.

So for me my own self doubt caused a lack of confidence. I can see how those with OCD will have that low self confidence and self esteem repeatedly reinforced by their OCD. Rather like an abused person finding it hard to gain the courage to leave their abusive partner. Why do they stay - because it is so hard to leave, because they believe the partner or situation will change or get better - because they fear their abusive partner will stopo at nothing to get them back or even hurt or kill them or family members - because they almost forget what a "normal" relationship should be like? I find all these similarities between abusive relationships and how OCD treats the sufferer.

I think the answer is building up confidence and self esteem and doing very very little changes and seeing that it works.

I agree that when people post on this forum they are in a very bad place and that is not the time to give up OCD. Rather like a smoker suffering a bereavement and having a fag - only to be told that they should not give into the craving for a fag because if they just ride it out the craving will pass. Yes that is true. But how many millions of people smoke??

Cognitive states are brain chemical states and the mind gets used to those chemical reactions to environmental and mental stressers. Rather like neurological pathways that are repeatedly reinforced and become automatic responses.

Add all the above together and it becomes a high fence to get over. But once over it does become easier. But looking at that high fence is very daunting, especially in an OCD highly anxious state.

Edited by Sally44
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