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Get off the forum and start working at challenging your OCD!


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Guest eden1616

I think that it's difficult to know what's truly going on in a situation that we are not physically part of. To an observer, it could seem like I am unwilling to make necessary changes. I don't typically talk about my success in fighting my OCD - it's just not really who I am. I see no purpose in spending time talking about the things I'm doing well with, and I'd much rather spend time asking for help with my weaker subjects. To some, it may look like I am blatantly ignoring the advice that's being given, but this is simply not the case. I, having high functioning autism, am someone that doesn't always comprehend what is being said, and I often need things explained to me repeatedly (and in numerous different ways) before I can make sense of them. I say this because I think that it's important to remember that OCD doesn't discriminate. It doesn't just hop over people with disorders that complicate learning and understanding of language and communication. I'm not suggesting that this is true for everyone who asks similar questions repeatedly. Rather, I am stating that we can't know, and that it's rather arrogant to assume that we can. I don't know that everyone is trying their best, but I also have no way of knowing that they aren't, and I think that it would be unfair of me (or any of us, really) to say that someone is unwilling to do the work without knowing their entire story.

that is exactly what i am trying to say except you said it like 1000000000 times better than i did or could. :clap: :worthy::)

Edited by eden1616
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Guest anatta

I think unwilling is a valid term. Some people know what to do but they are unwilling to do it. That doesn't mean they don't want to get better, but they can sure be unwilling to go down the path they need to.

That has been true of me, and as Caramoole said, and I imagine PolarBear was not implying otherwise, it is understandable. If you're caught in a bear trap and the only way out is to gnaw off your own leg, you're not gonna rush into it. You wouldn't want to die slowly, thirsty and in pain but you'd still be unwilling to suffer what is necessary to free yourself and many would never do it. Unless they had a local anaesthetic handy to minimise the pain first, which some people need in the form of OCD medication.

Edited by anatta
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The purpose of my thread was to try and get people to take a long honest look at themselves to assess if they are using the forums in the right way. I can suggest people need to work at their OCD but unless it comes from within them chances are they will not succeed. So if posts like this force people to ask themselves 'am I pushing myself enough?', something we all need and something I wished someone had done with me 15-years ago then so be it.

I don't think anyone is unwilling to get better


But there are people unwilling to do the work that is needed to help themselves get better. People unwilling to experiment with the information they have been given. Now in some cases that may be fear, embarrassment or shame, feelings we have all had at times and that is ok, we can help people face up to those if they are prepared to listen... if they are prepared to listen! 95% of people on here are wanting to get better but don't know how and we can help those people over time, so that is ok. But over the years we have had a very small minority who use the forum with no desire or willingness to seek out or practice therapy (the recognised treatment here in the UK), which is why they all these years later are still here with OCD. Now that is a personal choice on their part but those same people are often negative when it comes to the positive message that the charity tries to put out there about recovery, and that is something I find really unacceptable. Dare I say that an OCD forum that is about finding solutions to problems is not the best place for them at this time.

So I go back to what I said in my opening post, if people want to get better they have to work at it, by challenging the OCD thoughts and the lies the OCD tells you. We have to experiment with actions our OCD may not want us to do and of course for all intense purposes is something we call CBT.

CBT only works when you get out of the therapists office, when you get off the forums and start working at it.... scary prospect, but true.

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Guest eden1616

The purpose of my thread was to try and get people to take a long honest look at themselves to assess if they are using the forums in the right way. I can suggest people need to work at their OCD but unless it comes from within them chances are they will not succeed. So if posts like this force people to ask themselves 'am I pushing myself enough?', something we all need and something I wished someone had done with me 15-years ago then so be it.

But there are people unwilling to do the work that is needed to help themselves get better. People unwilling to experiment with the information they have been given. Now in some cases that may be fear, embarrassment or shame, feelings we have all had at times and that is ok, we can help people face up to those if they are prepared to listen... if they are prepared to listen! 95% of people on here are wanting to get better but don't know how and we can help those people over time, so that is ok. But over the years we have had a very small minority who use the forum with no desire or willingness to seek out or practice therapy (the recognised treatment here in the UK), which is why they all these years later are still here with OCD. Now that is a personal choice on their part but those same people are often negative when it comes to the positive message that the charity tries to put out there about recovery, and that is something I find really unacceptable. Dare I say that an OCD forum that is about finding solutions to problems is not the best place for them at this time.

So I go back to what I said in my opening post, if people want to get better they have to work at it, by challenging the OCD thoughts and the lies the OCD tells you. We have to experiment with actions our OCD may not want us to do and of course for all intense purposes is something we call CBT.

CBT only works when you get out of the therapists office, when you get off the forums and start working at it.... scary prospect, but true.

But you cant tell of someone is unwilling or not of you are not that person. Again i think my point is being missed.

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But you cant tell of someone is unwilling or not of you are not that person. Again i think my point is being missed.

I know exactly what point you are trying to make Eden, but we have been running the forum for 10+ years now, and based off things people write it does give us a good insight into the position people are in.

Every situation is individual of course, and as I mentioned above the purpose of my post is to get people to take a long hard look at themselves and they need to ask themselves the question, 'Am I doing enough?' only they know the answer to that.

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The post does make you ask yourself how much you're using the forum and why you're using it. I only come here around once a week, and I remember spending every day on forums and how detrimental it was to really moving forward.

This is probably not possible....but could a potential idea for the forum to be temporarily 'closed' as such for, say, an hour or two each day, help? It probably can't be down I am useless at computer stuff lol, but having the forum non-accessible for periods might force people to not spend all their time on it, or give them the break they need to get back into treating it in the real world.

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Guest anatta

The post does make you ask yourself how much you're using the forum and why you're using it. I only come here around once a week, and I remember spending every day on forums and how detrimental it was to really moving forward.

This is probably not possible....but could a potential idea for the forum to be temporarily 'closed' as such for, say, an hour or two each day, help? It probably can't be down I am useless at computer stuff lol, but having the forum non-accessible for periods might force people to not spend all their time on it, or give them the break they need to get back into treating it in the real world.

People can block certain websites themselves, for a given period of time. Some people do that, or ask for their account to be suspended for a while. That would probably be better than a fixed period of time each day for everyone, because some people might only be able to access the forum at certain times of the day, which might coincide with the hours chosen.

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could a potential idea for the forum to be temporarily 'closed' as such for, say, an hour or two each day, help?

It's not a bad idea, but I think the problem is we are all at different stages of our recovery, so some people need the help on the forum, where others like myself are on the road to recovery and perhaps don't need the forum so much anymore.

I think the other problem is that if people are using our forum in the wrong way, if we closed it for a few hours they would simply use other forums in the wrong way too.

That's why I think we need to push ourselves a little when the time is right. Of course if anyone needs our help, we can suspend a persons forum access for a set number of hours or days, something we have done for other users in the past when they felt they wanted a forced time out.

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Yeah that makes sense. But a good idea to offer this 'blocking' service (lol) to individuals temporarily for when they need it. I remember when another forum I used to be on all the time went down for like weeks and everyone freaked out. But it actually did me so much good.

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Guest Tricia

One problem is, people frequently assume they know how another is feeling/reacting. Often I read comments on the forum (not directed at me) like, "I know exactly what you're going through." I always struggle not to interject with, "Actually, no, you do not!" Another comment I see, frequently, is that it will always get better. Often it will with the right commitment, but not always.

We can never know another person's precise circumstances, nor can we measure their exact level of fear. And we can certainly not predict their future.

When we read of a person's struggles they do often repeat what seem like the same mistakes (or inaction) but we are not their therapist and we are not in their heads. Hopefully they will come to realize reassurance doesn't work, but it doesn't guarantee that following any particular advice/therapy will, either. There are no guarantees, and where would that leave some people who seem to view the forum as a lifeline, a place to come where hopefully others will always empathize. Empathy is possibly totally lacking in other areas of their lives. For some people this forum is all they have.

I'm just wondering how this thread's original message would go down on say a forum for coronary artery disease or type II diabetes.

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Guest Tricia

The post does make you ask yourself how much you're using the forum and why you're using it. I only come here around once a week, and I remember spending every day on forums and how detrimental it was to really moving forward.

This is probably not possible....but could a potential idea for the forum to be temporarily 'closed' as such for, say, an hour or two each day, help? It probably can't be down I am useless at computer stuff lol, but having the forum non-accessible for periods might force people to not spend all their time on it, or give them the break they need to get back into treating it in the real world.

I don't think policing the forum in this way is a good idea! Besides, what if the hour or two it's closed is the only time some can use their computers?!

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Yeah that's why I explained it wouldn't work in practice. But in theory it would be useful if individually we could discipline ourselves to step away from the forums at certain times and limit our time on them. If I'm being totally honest, forums were a lifesaver to me when I was first diagnosed and read about all the other people who were suffering, and that I wasn't alone, and also learned more about the disorder. Other than that, I'd be lying if I said they haven't had a detrimental effect to some degree. I generally only come on now to reply to people and help offer advice. Coming onto forums when my OCD is severe had generally only resulted in me getting stuck further in the loop for a more prolonged period of time.

One crucial part of CBT exercises and recovery as a whole is not giving OCD thoughts the attention they want. We need to retrain our minds to not respond or engage with it. Spending a lot of time on a forum dedicated to OCD goes against that practise, which is why I think it should be carefully monitored on an individual basis.

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I'm sorry, I misunderstood the original point of the thread. I agree that it's important for us to hold ourselves accountable, as we are the only one's who can truly know the full intent and effect of our own use of the forum.

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I'm just wondering how this thread's original message would go down on say a forum for coronary artery disease or type II diabetes.

I don't think an OCD forum and the above can be compared in any sense. However, if we were talking about a forum for type two diabetes and the person seeking help refused to change a diet comprising of donuts, burgers, biscuits, chips and Lucozade I suppose a comparison could be made that they weren't taking responsibility for their own recovery/improvement.

When we read of a person's struggles they do often repeat what seem like the same mistakes (or inaction) but we are not their therapist

Perhaps not....but then what is our role? Perhaps we should refer all back to their therapist and offer no advice at all.

Hopefully they will come to realize reassurance doesn't work, but it doesn't guarantee that following any particular advice/therapy will, either.

Perhaps not Tricia but there are no certainties that people will experience the same problems that you personally have either. Many, many will benefit from mainstream therapy. We can't tailor every piece of advice on the fact that it hasn't worked for some.

I suppose every individual has to assess what benefits (or not) the forum offer and use it on that basis. Similarly, as volunteers, we too have to consider and decide what level of or type of support we offer. If this charity was one of simply hand-holding, of helping people to compound their problems by repeating behaviours endlessly, of supporting faulty beliefs, of providing endless reassurance, of providing a platform to carrying out compulsions.....it wouldn't be a charity where I felt I could continue to offer support. There are other OCD forums that do approach things quite differently, who don't challenge things like reassurance seeking etc and I find those much more negative and damaging. We are what we are and have (generally) a consensus on our philosophy....people have to choose whether the approach is for them.

I don't think that it's rocket science to understand the point that Ashley is trying to make.

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Having read some of this thread not all, apologies for that. This forum has been a lifeline for me . A place to offload, a place to seek advice and too look at how others are affected. Without this place I would not have found friends who share a common issue.

This site became an obsession - not to post threads or gain reassurance but just logging in and reading . Now it's a place I come to find just people with similar experiences, and gain abit of support .

Maybe what you need to think about is reviewing the site and its format .

What happens to those people who can't afford to loose this outlet for there issues.

Maybe we should have a test - those who just need a place to chat, a bit of support, or offer support stop logging in for a week. Those who need help log in and let the moderators only reply.

May be then you will gauge what the forum is used for !

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Guest Tricia

Caramoole, I only have a few moments, but I used the comparison with forums for physical health problems, such as coronary artery disease and type II diabetes (there are many others that could be added to the list) because they are often much easier to treat than OCD and take less effort in many cases (to arrest and even reverse their progression).

I don't suppose anyone is told to stop using such forums if they are unwilling to change their lifestyle. When people here don't heed advice or appear to move on, it's almost certainly due to fear. And then, of course, there are those who, with the best will in the world, have not managed to make progress, despite repeatedly facing what they fear. Maybe they (and I) should just quietly, shamefully hide away.

Edited by Tricia
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again that is making an assumption about how people are feeling and i dont think you can say anyone is any particular thing unless you are that person or unless you are saying that that is only your personal opinion but you cant just say it is a fact. unless that person themselves has said that they were unwilling.

I used the terms 'unwilling' and 'unable' in my initial post. I don't think there's another option.

Edited by PolarBear
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And then, of course, there are those who, with the best will in the world, have not managed to make progress, despite repeatedly facing what they fear. Maybe they (and I) should just quietly, shamefully hide away.

Tricia, you have been on this forum long enough to know that that doesn't happen nor has anyone ever been told that either, to skulk off and hide away..... so it's not really a helpful or fair comment. You are adding an emotional slant to this.

As I've said above, most people will benefit from much of the advice that appears here on the forum, in books and in other information that is available. It is unreasonable to expect that when making a comment or making a suggestion that every facet of what we type has to be tailored to take into account those who it hasn't worked for (for whatever reason)

Whilst I understand that you want to make people aware that methods don't always work for all people, I do often feel that it isn't always helpful or useful to post the negative angle as a counter statement as a general rule.

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Guest Tricia

I discuss the 'negative' (I'd call it 'realistic') at times like these, and I've explained why, because I know too many people who have been abandoned by their families, due to the overly positive 'we can all beat it' approach. They then turn to their relatives with OCD and say, "Why then can't you?!" or, "I'll come back if you stop this nonsense!" (And much worse that is not printable here!)

If I am placing an emotional slant on it, it's because I am feeling emotional...

I have to get on now and face the daily terror, which gets harder every single day!

I used the terms 'unwilling' and 'unable' in my initial post. I don't think there's another option.

Yes, there is. In fact, there are several.

Edited by Tricia
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I have been trying to stay off of this thread,as I don't want to upset anyone,but I would like to say that I agree with a lot of what has been said,and whilst I agree that yes we do have to be positive in our replies,and I have never read anywhere where Tricia has been negative in her replies at all,in fact quite the opposite,but there are a number of people where mainstream treatment hasn't helped as yet,where people myself included are facing our fears everyday,yet the anxiety doesn't come down,and it is very disheartening to read that we are unwilling or unable to attempt treatment.

The forum and the people on here have been a big help to me and I thank you all for that x

Edited by daisy
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My only point is Daisy is that there are many, many sufferers who will make good progress. With early intervention (that is more readily available today), many will make almost complete recovery and whilst I understand the need to explain that this isn't always the case, I don't think that it's necessary or helpful to add it as a rider to every positive suggestion that's made.

I know exactly what it's like to suffer from extreme and crippling anxiety, just as you and Tricia do....make no mistake about that. I know what it's like when anxiety doesn't fall. I also know how resistant we can become to putting ourself through that. I've been there too, more times than I care to remember.

But I think that whilst it's important to raise awareness of how crippling this wretched condition is (so that friends, relatives etc can understand) it isn't right to paint the picture that this will be in every case or in every case be permanent.

The problem is that everyone (perhaps understandably) takes this personally.....and yet it is a fact that there are many, many sufferers who CAN make good improvement by implementing the advice and yes (sadly), going through extreme anxiety.

I have patience by the bucket load and will try to explain things every which way up I can and offer support but it is a sad truth that there are very, very many (if not all) who will make good progress if they put into practice the theory. I truly believe that.

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Yes, there is. In fact, there are several.

I don't think there is and even mentioning 'unable' is a stretch. It all boils down to a choice between doing the hard work or not. I think what Ashley was getting at in his original post is that, once you've educated yourself about OCD and you understand your own disorder and how it manifests and you've received good advice about how to proceed, ultimately you have to make a decision to do the work or not. You are either willing or unwilling to do the work.

Now I understand that there are some variables that can throw a wrench in the work. Someone might get bad information. Some people might be led down a path that leads nowhere. But when the way forward is fairly clear, each person has to make a choice to try and try again or not.

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I have been trying to stay off of this thread,as I don't want to upset anyone,but I would like to say that I agree with a lot of what has been said,and whilst I agree that yes we do have to be positive in our replies,and I have never read anywhere where Tricia has been negative in her replies at all,in fact quite the opposite,but there are a number of people where mainstream treatment hasn't helped as yet,where people myself included are facing our fears everyday,yet the anxiety doesn't come down,and it is very disheartening to read that we are unwilling or unable to attempt treatment.

The forum and the people on here have been a big help to me and I thank you all for that x

My original post in this thread is being misconstrued. I did not say that some people are unwilling or unable to attempt treatment after they've tried treatment. My exact quote is:

There is certainly a segment of the forum population that is stuck on their obsessions and compulsions and are unwilling or unable to refocus onto getting better.

I stand by that statement 100%. There are people on the forum who are unwilling or unable to refocus onto getting better. They're not even trying or trying very little. They come here, day after day and complain and complain about their situation. They are given good, solid advice, but they are either unwilling or unable to take the next step and start doing the work that can help them overcome their disorder.

I did not say everyone with a problem falls into this category. This is an example of people taking a statement and twisting it to mean something else.

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Guest eden1616

Ugh I don't have a problem with people being responsible for their own recovery that is NOT what I am trying to say ALL I am trying to say it that I DONT think it is fair or even possible to "know" exactly how someone is feeling unless you are that person, and making assumptions about someone's situation is in many ways wrong. You only see a small portion of people on here I know I sure don't tell you 90% of the things about myself or my life and without out that knowledge assuming how hard someone is trying is not reasonable and can be unfair.

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