Have any of you not been helped by medication?

[Ryukil]

I suppose I probably haven't tried all of them, but in my experience they haven't helped too much.

I just want something that will help me think more flexibly.

[Ashley]

I just want something that will help me think more flexibly.

You already have that... yourself!

I have never taken medication, and have overcome my OCD using CBT techniques (mainly self-help) rather than formal CBT sessions. Of course some people need medication to take the edge of, and that is fine, but I get the impression from your postings you are seeking a medication to change the way you think, to make the OCD go away and I am afraid there is NO such medication.

[Ryukil]

No, I'm not looking for a cure-all. Just something to help. I'm really having a lot of troubling thinking around this issue I'm currently grappling with and can't help but to overanalyze everything.

I've been trying to help myself with this issue for over a year, and I'm going to a therapist now but I don't have much hope she can help me out. I feel like medication is my only hope to get me out of this little rut. At least so I can get to the point where it's easier to see my obsessions for what they are, and to not give into the compulsions.

Edited April 30, 2016 by Ryukil

[Ashley]

But that's the point, there is no one medication that is shown to always help everyone with OCD. If you are already having trouble thinking around the issue then medication can't help that can it, how can it? Medication at best would simply 'mask' the problem and it won't help you deal with it.

I am sorry, but if you want to change the way your struggling to deal with the OCD ruminations then you need to find a good CBT therapist and ensure they understand OCD and how to use the cognitive approach to explore your thinking and find alternative ways to dealing with the thoughts.

Medication can not treat OCD in my opinion. It's a tool which can sometimes helps some people deal with the anxiety that OCD causes perhaps, but doesn't help all.

[Ryukil]

Right now I'm paying 200 dollars per session with my therapist, so I really hope she can help me out.

Every doctor I've ever been to would say that medication can help.

[Ashley]

Right now I'm paying 200 dollars per session with my therapist, so I really hope she can help me out.

Every doctor I've ever been to would say that medication can help.

I am sure they do, big pharma is worth a lot of money in the US market. I am happy to accept that meds can help some people, but like I say I think it merely masks the OCD and helps manage the anxiety, I don't for one minute believe meds treat the OCD itself. So meds can be a helpful tool (for some), but that's all when it comes to OCD (in my opinion).

In terms of your therapist, you pay the money so you control if things should continue. If she is a good therapist then continue, but if not then sack her and find a better one. Here's what we recommend in terms of therapy:

- Ideally once a week for at least a hour.

- Failing that. bi-weekly should be ok, but try and have 90 minutes.

- Therapy gaps of longer than that meet the period between sessions is too great, and I doubt will allow patients to really get at the OCD treatment.

- As progress is made then of course gaps can be longer, but until then it must me weekly ideally, bi-weekly gaps at most.

Questions to ask the therapist to gauge if they are suitable to treat OCD.

- Have you treated OCD before?

- Do you provide cognitive and behavioural treatment, rather than just behavioural treatment?

- Will we set out a specific CBT treatment plan just for me? (rather than the therapist using the same approach for every OCD sufferer)

- Will goals be set together? (rather than therapist setting the goals for you)

- Do you use a technique called ‘graded exposure’?

- Do you understand the cognitive approach and the theory A and theory B approach?

- Do you set practical exercises or ‘homework’ for me and help me understand these exercises? *

The answer should be 'yes' for all.

* Where behavioural exercises are set for homework, a really good pro-active therapist will even come to your home or the place of the exercise to do the exercises with you. And will always review your homework at the next session (which is why, once a week therapy is ideal).

If the therapist answers no to any of those, you really need to ask then why, and chances are you need to seek a new therapist.

[Ryukil]

She is an "OCD specialist". To be honest I'm tired of therapy. Am I really the only one who has not been helped by most therapists I've gone to? Maybe the situation in the UK is better.

[Ashley]

How do you know she is a specialist? Just because someone claims to be, does not mean they are. Just playing devils advocate there, she may well be.

But no, you're not alone in that it is not uncommon at all for people not to respond to therapy, some people need 3, 4 or more courses of treatment and different specialists before they find the right person to help them. There is always someone else, always another option.

But, you also need to review why you are not making progress. Are your sessions frequent enough? Are you doing your homework? Are you being set homework? Are you applying yourself between sessions? Do you understand what is going on? Are you being totally honest with therapists? Are you still scared of doing the exercises? All questions to ponder and work out why you are not making progress.

From my observations there are two main reasons why some people don't make progress.

1 - They don't fully understand what OCD is and how OCD works (or understand what CBT is either).

2 - They are doing behavioural exercises but are doing some form of neutralising safety compulsion (usually mental) as well which keeps the OCD fear alive.

[Ryukil]

She is the wife of Fred Penzel, who wrote a well-known book on OCD and is considered to be an expert in the field. He told me to go to his wife, who does an identical treatment. Is that good enough for you, Mr. Ashley?

[Ashley]

Is that good enough for you, Mr. Ashley?

Sarcasm? Really? You do realise I am trying to help you? And it is Mr Fulwood if you want to be formal.

She is the wife of Fred Penzel, who wrote a well-known book on OCD and is considered to be an expert in the field. He told me to go to his wife, who does an identical treatment. Is that good enough for you, Mr. Ashley?

But to answer the question, if this was you offering me a therapist for my own treatment I would answer No, that is not good enough for me. But of course, we are not talking about me, the question you should ask is 'Is she good enough for me?'.

I will try and explain why I answered No to the above question. I should add she may be good enough, but the reason I answered no is this. It doesn't answer any of the above 'therapist finder' questions I posed, it doesn't tell me what her qualifications are. Just because her husband writes books on OCD does not mean she is suitability qualified to treat OCD.

Do you see the point I am getting at here? She may be suitably qualified, but by asking me if she was good enough it based off the information provided to me, I have to answer no.

I am not asking you to tell me her qualifications, I am suggesting if you have not already reviewed them and the questions above then you need to for your sake, not mine.

[Ryukil]

Sorry for the sarcasm. It just seems like the people on this forum always tell me I'm not doing enough. I guess, what can I expect from people with OCD...

Edited April 30, 2016 by Ryukil

[Ashley]

Sorry for the sarcasm. It just seems like the people on this forum always tell me I'm not doing enough. I guess, what can I expect from people with OCD...

I haven't said that. I have said you need to ask yourself why you are not making progress, it could be due to therapist, it could be due to you, what I have said these are questions you need to ask yourself.

[Ryukil]

I only have one obsession. I wouldn't even say I suffer from OCD anymore. I would say my thinking can be obsessive, but I'm no longer a slave to compulsions. I just have one really bad obsession I can't negotiate with.

[frankie]

My opinion is if Fred penzel suggests her, shes going to be good , he's one of the world's leading authorities on ocd and has written the industry classic called simply obsessive compulsive disorder , have spoken to him numerous times by e mail , he's very helpful ....my non medical advice ?......have a few sessions with her if you can afford it or Google Fred penzel articles and he's done loads , he's a firm believer in therapy and medication and together with David veale in this country , is a world expert

[frankie]

Right now I'm paying 200 dollars per session with my therapist, so I really hope she can help me out.

Every doctor I've ever been to would say that medication can help.

It can , as part of a package not every medication helps the same person and some people do better on therapy

Ask her what med she thinks will help , why she has suggested it , what she expects of it

I assume she will use cognitive therapy in an exposure response way

If you are paying her ask her these questions , if you are not happy , buy Fred's book , read his book or others such as the one by Dr David veale , Lee baer, etc

[Ashley]

My opinion is if Fred penzel suggests her, shes going to be good ,

She probably is but re-read what you have just said. You have suggested someone seek therapy with the wife of someone, just because that someone is good. Again, I am not suggesting Mrs Penzel is not good and she may be really well qualified but that's what we need to tell forum users to check. We can't just say go and see X because Y said so.

I respect Professor Salkovskis. If Paul told me to go and have therapy with a therapist relation of his I would be tempted to consider it, but I would check their credentials first.

Surely someone can see the point I am making here?

[frankie]

I have told him to check her out , ask questions of her approach , view on medication

Actually Fred penzel is very much an advocate of self directed therapy , in other words using books , written by experts as he's well aware of the lack of therapists

Another good one is tormenting thoughts and secret rituals but in my view Fred penzels book is the most comprehensive ever written on the spectrum of obsessive compulsive disorders and his articles online excellent

[Ryukil]

The person I'm talking about is also a doctor trained in CBT. Fred Penzel told me to go to her, they use the same therapy.

[Ryukil]

You know what I wonder so much about this forum? Everyone's got advice, even if they aren't recovered themselves.

[frankie]

You know what I wonder so much about this forum? Everyone's got advice, even if they aren't recovered themselves.

Well my opinion and that of Fred penzel is that you learn to manage ocd and must always be wary that it could return

Veale talks about continually weeding out the roots of ocd , keeping healthy , stress free and developing interests ......penzel refers to it as confinining ocd to such a tiny part of your life that it doesn't bother you anymore

Other people including some sufferers and some doctors talk about complete cure .....in my opinion that's impossible to define unless we follow someone from birth to very old age .....what is certain is people can rightly say that at this point they are cured and may not have had any symptoms for many many years

[Handy]

You know what I wonder so much about this forum? Everyone's got advice, even if they aren't recovered themselves.

Yes, there are some that should be better if they have taken their own advice. That's one of the mysteries.

As for therapy, the patient must want to change for it to work. There have been some creepy ones in my experience with them, but I can choose not to come back.

[taurean]

You know what I wonder so much about this forum? Everyone's got advice, even if they aren't recovered themselves.

Many people leave regular activity on the forum as they recover and manage better.

Some like myself stick around and like to, based on our own experiences and received therapy, seek to help others. We don't have to,we choose to.

Periodically people report in as to how they are doing.

The beauty of this place - and no doubt the reason for its popularity - is that it's run by sufferers/ex-sufferers/managees on behalf of all affected by the disorder.

Swapping our experiences frequently makes a real difference.

It's in my opinion a fallacy for anyone to fixate on finding a cure. Many do recover, often very well -for others it's more a question of management - as with myself.

Edited May 1, 2016 by taurean

[Phili]

Gosh, this thread is pretty rude and insulting isn't it.

You wont find a medication that will help you to stop obsessing. It takes time and patience. Rush OCD and it will go away and then come back with vengeance. The meds mostly just lower anxiety to help you to cope better.

As for advice. Just because people struggle to follow their own advice doesn't make that advice any less legit. I hate to tell you this but most people, OCD or not, don't follow their own good advice. People know what they have to do but that doesn't mean they can do it. Some people manage, some people get over it, some people go back and forth and some people try and keep going back to square one, it isn't an exact science. Criticizing people for basically not getting better wont help yourself at all.

[Ashley]

You know what I wonder so much about this forum? Everyone's got advice, even if they aren't recovered themselves.

I appreciate you are struggling, but on this thread you have been incredibly rude to people taking time out of their busy weekend to help, and this comment is another example. If aimed at me, I am not better no but I am 90-95% better.

If such comments continue two things will happen, firstly I will lock the thread. Secondly, people will stop trying to help you.

[Ashley]

People know what they have to do but that doesn't mean they can do it.

Exactly right Phili, that's the same in life in general. And this is absolutely perfectly acceptable too, most of us have been in this position but what is important is we don't just stop trying, we keep working at trying to do whatever we need to do, beyond failure and failure until we succeed.

What I always try and do is encourage people to review why they don't feel able to achieve it. The majority of the time it is down to a bad therapist, but sometimes we have to ask ourselves some honest questions, and the biggest is 'is there more than I can do?'.