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So I'm gonna start by saying that I know I'm a really difficult person and wouldn't wish myself upon anyone but basically my stepdad is the cook in the house and he is quite a good cook but he has serious hygiene issues he doesn't wash to the point where he actually smells and wears the same clothes for like a week. I have a major fear of being sick so I'm a bit funny with my food. And I know I can be annoying asking people if they have washed their hands I get that. My stepdad was smelly this morning wearing the clothes he's had on for like a week so I kindly asked my mum if she would make tea instead and she said yes. Anyway he went to make it and was using the spoon he uses for the dogs food and anyway now I've decided I don't want anything I'll just see to myself and he went mad at me. I feel bad because when he stinks I sometimes try and say nicely I think you should shower as id want someone to tell me. I suppose I'm just a nightmare and better off living alone

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Guest Orwell1984

Yes that's not good. Where though do you draw the line for some people though?For example, my partner does not wash his hands in between handling raw meat and then lifting up the salt/pepper grinder or something else that could be used or touched afterwards like handles on a saucepan or switches. Also sometimes he coughs and does not cover his mouth so he coughs over the food or into the fridge or coughs into his hand which he then touches other things with!!... It's very annoying because I think stuff like this is obvious... I also am beginning not to go to his parent's house because in the morning times I suspect do not wash their hands after the bathroom (I never hear the sink and it's too quick a transition between the toilet flush and them leaving the bathroom) and then they go straight to the kitchen to make coffee for everyone including me.. The cups are disgustingly dirty. I don't know what to do or say without offending my partner;. As you can guess this feeds into the ROCD too :(

BUT

there are chefs on tv who never wash their hands after touching raw meat and then they touch teatowels or wipe their hands on teatowels and throw the teatowel over their shoulder?!? Nobody bats an eyelid! Plus the chefs have dirty nails.

I can't draw the line. What is right and what is wrong?

Edited by Orwell1984
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Don't get me started with cups and dishes I find myself rewashing them all the time. Bits of food still on them and everything so disgusting! I suppose everyone's cleanliness is diff and I do get that but I just don't think I can eat something that somehow who barely showers has made I'd rather have beans on toast haha. And I know I moan and am a bit excessive about hand washing especially around food for fear of getting sick but I honestly can't help it I'm not purposely being annoying even tho I must be!

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Guest Orwell1984

I don't think you're annoying! I just wonder why some people are liberal with things like this. Then I doubt am I being anal retentive or not (you know how some people think that cleanliness is over the top or an OCPD trait). I see this as normal cleanliness, not excessive. Or am I wrong? :( I do not have OCD about cleanliness and contamination. I'm not troubled by it, but I feel the high disgust factor with the raw meat, coughing and dirty cups and toileting situations. I think anyone would though??

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I know orwell1984 I was meaning I feel myself like I'm being annoying at times haha :( yeh raw meat is a big one for me too but especially like chicken! It is interesting tho how it really bothers people and others just don't care less about washing their hands etc! I see it as normal cleanliness too even tho I can be over the top at times showering and washing hands before preparing food is in my opinion very much normal too!

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Guest imalright

Hmm.....perhaps a different approach is needed :-)

Just thinking of when I have had to pull employees over their personal hygeine.......it's difficult but.....a more directive approach without any rescuing works better. I.E - trying to tell them in a 'nice way' does not work at all. But you can tell them in a way to bring about change and protect their feelings.

Also....I lived with someone who's father was exactly the same as your step dad. My OCD wasn't aggravated (mine isn't over hygeine or germs etc) but I couldn't bear to be around the smell. It was making me feel ill. I asked boyfriend if he would speak to him about showering. He kept putting it off and once, when I came home from work, I just snapped. That wasn't good :-(

Regardless of OCD or not, it's not nice to be around. I know! Xx

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It's a case of being completely honest with yourself about what the real risk is.

Firstly, no-one needs to take a shower before preparing food, that's obsessional and excessive.

The fact he stinks and doesn't change his clothes isn't in itself a risk food-wise unless he drapes his sweater sleeves in the soup, it's a personal hygiene issue but I accept it can be an indicator of his general lax habits.

Using the dog food spoon isn't an issue either.....I'm presuming he washes it before he stirs your food and also that the dog doesn't actually eat their dinner with a spoon!!

If he doesn't wash his hands, drops stuff on the floor, lets the dog lick the food.....then there are points to raise. I would have a word with your Mum about the general hygiene, living with someone who pongs isn't pleasant and does invade on your space....perhaps she could have a word with him and throw his clothes in the wash.

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It's a case of being completely honest with yourself about what the real risk is.

Firstly, no-one needs to take a shower before preparing food, that's obsessional and excessive.

The fact he stinks and doesn't change his clothes isn't in itself a risk food-wise unless he drapes his sweater sleeves in the soup, it's a personal hygiene issue but I accept it can be an indicator of his general lax habits.

Using the dog food spoon isn't an issue either.....I'm presuming he washes it before he stirs your food and also that the dog doesn't actually eat their dinner with a spoon!!

If he doesn't wash his hands, drops stuff on the floor, lets the dog lick the food.....then there are points to raise. I would have a word with your Mum about the general hygiene, living with someone who pongs isn't pleasant and does invade on your space....perhaps she could have a word with him and throw his clothes in the wash.

Spot on

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Guest Orwell1984

I think it's gross that the same spoon would be used for dog food (would be tapped onto the dog food bowl which prob wouldn't have been washed and that the dog had licked from the last time) and then used for human needs. if the same unhygienic lax person was washing it , it wouldn't be washed to a hygiene quality. I don't agree with the utensils issue at all!! Plus a dirty person cooking food would secrete dandruff and sweat into food being cooked. I have to disagree on these points. They might not cause someone illness or death but are absolutely disgusting :(

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Guest Orwell1984

But someone who is dirty with lots of things won't know how to wash something properly? What about chefs and the tea towel on the shoulder thing (sweat and dandruff dripping)? Where is the logic yet everybody seems to do it? I know things like this don't kill you but they stand to no sense and are really disgusting

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Guest Orwell1984

But maybe I do have issues if my reaction isn't a normal one? :( I understand that you should expose to the elements that are threatening and so it is good exposure, where do you draw the line though when situations aren't being used as exposure anymore? Same with ROCD - not analysing the relationship but when relationship obsessions aren]t bothersome anymore, when is it ok to analyse the relationship situation objectively?

What I mean is, it is good that the original poster's situation described above exists because it can be used as exposure for them, but when and how can changes be made when the situation isn't being used as exposure?

I remember a situation like this when I was in the Priory. A woman had contamination OCD and one of the exposures was to touch raw chicken and spread it around different areas of the hospital where people could get contaminated. I understand the exposure principle, but always thought afterwards that that was not a great idea. Please tell me if I'm wrong, why I'm wrong? I can't see the boundary line most other people can readily see when it comes to this?

Sorry if the thread seems hijacked. Will leave off further input if it's unhelpful. One more thing - the fact my attitude seems to be abnormal - would this mean that I potentially have OCPD? Because I believe strongly in these hygiene matters although am not afraid of them

Edited by Orwell1984
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Sorry guys didn't mean to start a debate I was just upset earlier and I know my fears are a bit excessive mainly because I'm terrified of being sick but the poor hygiene thing does really freak me out I don't think I can change that, it's pretty difficult to live with like the others said it would prob be difficult for someone who doesn't have my concerns too

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Guest Orwell1984

Sorry guys didn't mean to start a debate I was just upset earlier and I know my fears are a bit excessive mainly because I'm terrified of being sick but the poor hygiene thing does really freak me out I don't think I can change that, it's pretty difficult to live with like the others said it would prob be difficult for someone who doesn't have my concerns too

No don't worry! My bad, i think I've hijacked the thread :) just use the situation you are in as exposure. That wil be beneficial.

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One more thing - the fact my attitude seems to be abnormal - would this mean that I potentially have OCPD?

No not at all. It's just that (in my opinion) you have over-exaggerated the threat based off an emotion.

Take the Chef and the tea-towel. He's in a kitchen in chefs whites which he's dressed in since he got to the restaurant. You talk of sweat and dandruff dripping on the tea towel. Firstly, I see very few people with dandruff these days.....but suppose he had, the tea towel is over his shoulder and any sweat/dandruff is likely to fall straight down in a line to his neck. Even so, this guy is in a kitchen bending directly over food all day...sweat and dandruff could fall anywhere....so why make the tea towel connection. Should anyone be allowed to work in a kitchen? Should someone work along side them with a damp cloth to make sure they have their brow mopped? Should their hair be completely wrapped in turban-like head gear? Should the same apply in a domestic kitchen at home? Should supermarket checkout assistants wear similar head gear so their dandruff doesn't fall into my fresh produce?

It's catastrophising, over-exaggerating the risk based on an emotion, taking 2 + 2 and coming up with 10. You're not alone though, my best friend would react just like you and she isn't a sufferer...but her concerns are excessive.

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I mentioned to a therapist that I'd try to stop washing my hands whilst in the middle of cooking. She made it clear to me that if I touched raw meat I SHOULD wash my hands before touching anything else. Didn't affect me cos there's no meat in my house but just wanted to answer the raw chicken question. I agree that rubbing raw chicken everywhere is just stupid. But what would I know, I have definite contamination issues........

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You can choose to be disgusted if you want, mot sure how it helps anyone with contamination issues though

Caramoole, I don't think it's a simple as that. Disgust is a visceral reaction and one believed to be controlled by the insula. it is harder to deal with than fear.

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I remember a situation like this when I was in the Priory. A woman had contamination OCD and one of the exposures was to touch raw chicken and spread it around different areas of the hospital where people could get contaminated. I understand the exposure principle, but always thought afterwards that that was not a great idea. Please tell me if I'm wrong, why I'm wrong? I can't see the boundary line most other people can readily see when it comes to this?

This reminds me of my friend in America who was doing group exposure of this nature. One of the 'patients' was a GP and she gave about a dozen reasons why the therapist was putting people's health at risk. A raw chicken has far more germs than the average toilet and this practice is dangerous! So, Orwell, I'm afraid I cannot tell you that you're wrong! Sometimes therapy is plain crazy!

A friend at the Bethlem with a fear of glass harming people had to go out onto the street and smash a bottle and leave it there. Who cares what children or animals will be hurt as long as the OCD sufferer conquers his fear!!

Edited by Tricia
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Guest Orwell1984

Yes Tricia I agree- some of it is totally hare brained. I remember a woman was told to leave her child in the car with the doors unlocked while she was in a shop and the car was out of view. Her fear was of her child being kidnapped. Now that is absolutely stupid and ridiculous!!

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Guest Orwell1984

No not at all. It's just that (in my opinion) you have over-exaggerated the threat based off an emotion.

Take the Chef and the tea-towel. He's in a kitchen in chefs whites which he's dressed in since he got to the restaurant. You talk of sweat and dandruff dripping on the tea towel. Firstly, I see very few people with dandruff these days.....but suppose he had, the tea towel is over his shoulder and any sweat/dandruff is likely to fall straight down in a line to his neck. Even so, this guy is in a kitchen bending directly over food all day...sweat and dandruff could fall anywhere....so why make the tea towel connection. Should anyone be allowed to work in a kitchen? Should someone work along side them with a damp cloth to make sure they have their brow mopped? Should their hair be completely wrapped in turban-like head gear? Should the same apply in a domestic kitchen at home? Should supermarket checkout assistants wear similar head gear so their dandruff doesn't fall into my fresh produce?

It's catastrophising, over-exaggerating the risk based on an emotion, taking 2 + 2 and coming up with 10. You're not alone though, my best friend would react just like you and she isn't a sufferer...but her concerns are excessive.

But Caramoole the chef whites are usually dirty and if you see anybody with dandruff, the dandruff is seen on the shoulders. The teatowel is on the shoulders and is used to wipe the sweaty forehead and wipe raw meat, blotches on plates, lift hot plates etc with. This happens on practically every tv cookery show and it looks like it is a non issue but according to food hygiene documentation (British Food Journal) it is a big problem. Somebody needs to rewrite exposures for this topic because the line is blurred.

With the supermarket people - no because it is expected that consumers wash their vegetables and cook their meat properly. Vegetables have to be picked, transferred, packed by numerous people and come into contact with plenty insects and microbes - totally normal. There will always be a risk with everything. It's where common practise becomes lackadaisical where things go wrong. eg MRSA in hospitals more so than in the past when there were matrons and a strict machine was run. Restaurants should practice the same hygiene standards. Home food hygiene is not that difficult (if no OCD is present). There is no difference between using a spoon for dog food -unhygienically washed -and then human food, and drying a wet dog with a teatowel for example. Same difference except some people think oh that's disgusting with the tea towel and other people don't bat an eyelid with the spoon dog food situation.

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Guest Orwell1984
In other shows (e.g. Top Chef Romania, Hellstroms
Masterchef, Saturday Kitchen Live) chefs seemed to prefer to wipe their hands on a dry
cloth, such as a tea towel or an apron (sometimes blood-stained), between any operation,
and this was inevitably the same cloth used throughout the cooking operation, with
obvious cross-contamination risks. It is not appropriate to use the same cloth to clean
hands and to clean cutting boards and plates, even if it is wet, especially after handling
raw meat
from "Food safety practices in European TV cooking shows" (Looking this up will be a compulsion if you have contamination OCD. But if you don't have contamination OCD, this is actually good reading).
The FSA says this

1.Clearing space

Clear work surfaces of things you won't need and clean them with hot soapy water or disinfectant. Get pets out of the way.

2.Hand washing

Wash hands thoroughly with soap and warm water, rise well and dry.

3. Fridge

Make sure your fridge is set between 0*C and 5*C. Keep raw meat and poultry in covered containers on the bottom shelf to avoid contaminating other foods.

4. Chopping board

Wash your board and other utensils in hot soapy water when you've finished using them and in between preparing raw and ready-to-eat food.

5.Cloths

Change or wash your tea towels, sponges, aprons and dish cloths once a week.

6.Cleaning

Use disinfectant and cleaning products meant for use in the kitchen. They have been specially formulated to be effective against germs while being safe to use around food.

7.Cooking

Cook poultry, pork burgers, sausages and kebabs until steaming hot with no pink meat left inside and juices run clear.

Everything else should probably be considered excessive and compulsive especially if repeated or if it becomes the main focus rather than the food preparation.

Edited by Orwell1984
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