Tez

Hi jinxed. I hope you are feeling a bit better this morning. If it is any help to you, everyone gets bizarre or disturbing thoughts like this. We were talking in work about these sorts of things just the other day and it seems most people get such thoughts floating across their consciousness - OCD or no OCD. It's just the way our brains are. What defines OCD-ers is the meaning we tend to attach to such thoughts and the anxiety this causes. In reality, every parent gets those sorts of bizarre thoughts that you describe. You are not weird or sick. Given time, the anxiety will fade and you will be able to see how these thoughts are irrational and not reflective of you in anyway. Best wishes Tez

Hi there everyone. I was wondering today if any one had any thoughts on the relationship between anger and OCD. Many mental health professionals hold that anger if left unmanaged can quickly express itself as depression, and my own observations suggest that if I get angry, my OCD quickly gets much more potent (possibly because I'm depressed and this makes it less easy to rationally cope with the OCD). I wondered if anyone else had any thoughts on anger and OCD. Does it trigger or exacerbate your OCD and do anger management strategies help? Tez :cool:

Quite right Catherine. I try not to get angry, but one of the few things that really annoys me are those therapists who blame people living with mental ill health for not making an immediate recovery according to their pet model, and who label them 'treatment resistant'. Hopefully titles like this will refocus their attention back to their own interactions with service users or patients. Tez :original:

Hi there Harmony. I work in the voluntary sector and we also received the fake e-mail that you mention. Apparently it is a classic urban myth and has even been reported in Fortean Times - the journal of strange phenomena. My local HIV charity tells me that such similar chain mails have been doing the rounds since the early days of the AIDS health crisis in the early 1980's. It is, as you say, purely malicious and clinically inaccurate, becuase HIV does not live outside the human body for any length of time. It dies very quickly. All the e-mail has done is to increase general anxiety and to increase stigma and discrimination against people living with HIV, which was probably the intention. If you receive it, delete and advise the sender that it is a cruel hoax. Cheers Tez

I would just like to second what the other posters have said. Please, please do not make yourself feel guilty about something that nearly the entire population does, regardless of culture or gender, sexual orientation or any other factor. It's a perfectly normal part of human life. There is absolutely nothing to concern yourself with in terms of germs, as your own body cannot infect itself, just as you cannot give yourself a cold. Irrational guilt is a precursor to OCD and one of its driving forces, so do deal with this now. You have nothing to feel guilty about. Best wishes for an OCD-free day. Tez

Thank you very much Kirstie and all the other posters for these clarifications. I was not aware that one could have a diagnosis of OCD and OCPD at the same time. The cited article is very well written and helps out with quite a few points. I think it might be worth letting Rethink know so that future issues of their booklet can incorporate the OCPD and OCD differences. Thanks again best wishes Tez

I tend to agree with IDNTW. It sounds like this person has mental health problems of their own aggression, which could be caused by all sorts of diagnoses and/or situations. Remember that harrassment of this type is ultimately illegal and unacceptable. At least these days public agencies are much more aware of harrassment and more able to take action against it. If it continues, it might be worth taking a look at the many resources online such as Victim Support, which is the largest charity that can advise you on what to do to stop it. Best wishes Tez

Hi there. This is a fine point and may only be of interest to a few people - so apolgies in advance! I have been reading the latest booklet produced by the charity Rethink (formerly the Shizophrenia Society). It is called "Only the Best: Information about anti-psychotic and mood stabiliser medication". It is interesting, but only indirectly related to OCD. I noticed though that in the glossary Obsessive-Compulsive is defined as a 'personality disorder in which the individual feels compelled to carry out repeated rituals and / or has obsessive uncontrollable thoughts'. I was under the impression that the anxiety disorder OCD, which is characterised by thoughts and rituals was different from the diagnosis of Obsessive-Compulsive Personality Disorder (OCPD) which is a different category altogehter. I wonder does anyone have any clarification on this matter? Many thanks Tez

Hi Harry The number of needle-stick injuries that have transmitted HIV are virtually nil. Of all the millions and millions of cases of HIV in the world, only a handful have been transmitted through puncture wounds - and these are all amongst health care professionals who would be coming into contact with 'fresh' blood or other bodily fluids. HIV cannot live for long outside the human body as it is a weak virus and dies rapidly. Hope this helps a bit - but remember, as Honey says OCD is a doubting disease so you could ruminate for hours on HIV trying to find enough evidence to allay your anxiety. The most effective thing to do is to engage with your rational mind, which tells you deep down that you haven't got HIV, and relabel your thoughts as OCD. best wishes Tez

Hi Shelley. I'm afraid I cannot offer you any direct advice as I do not have any children, but I do know that school can be challenging for anyone who doesn't fit in to the narrow view of the mainstream. If it is of any consolation to you, I am pleased to report that all the kids who were different in my class went on to become strong-willed successful people putting something really worthwhile into society. We also all grew up to be caring and compassionate people and a lot work in the voluntary and public sectors helping others. These days, schools do seem to take bullying much more seriously and quite a few have written policies. I think they might need encouraging to act on them more. Be strong and best wishes Tez

Hi there Hannah. I empathise with how you low you must be feeling. When you have a 'burst' of OCD anxiety like that it totally makes you feel like the bottom is falling out of your world, especially if you have had a relatively good period prior to that. In the long run it would be counter-productive for you to seek reassurance on an OCD issue, so I shall try to stick to the facts that you requested. Let us assume that your friend is HIV positive. Of course, as you rightly acknowledge, this is an unreasonable extrapolation based on his sexuality. Whilst the majority of British-born persons living with HIV in the UK are gay and bisexual men in major cities, it is not true that the majority of urban gay guys are people living with HIV. The overwhelming majority of gay men do not and never will have HIV and the major health issues that affect them will be exactly the same as the issues that affect you and I (including OCD!). I do some voluntary work with people affected by HIV, and in all the literature and scientific studies, there are no documented cases (so far as I am aware) of people seroconverting to HIV positive status from a kiss. HIV is a nasty illness, but in reality a very vulernable virus that cannot live outside the human body for any length of time, and it is present in saliva only in extremely small and often unmeasurable quantities. The human mouth is water-tight and impenetrable exactly to minimise picking up viruses. Cold sores, mouth ulcers and bleeding gums (from, for example, gingivitis) can provide a theoretical vector for transmission of HIV, but for example, in all the millions of cases of oral sex that take place every year, only a handful in the whole wide world over the past 25 years have ever resulted in HIV transmission, and we're dealing there with the exchange of reproductive fluids that contain HIV in thousands of times greater quantities than in mouth saliva. In short, the odds are billions upon billions to one against you ever even coming against the virus. And then there's several million to one further odds against transmission taking place due to the unviable nature of most HIV in saliva. And even then, the nature of HIV medications in this day in age mean that HIV is an unpleasant, but manageable condition and most HIV service providers anticipate people becoming infected now will be able to live a 'normal' life span comparable to HIV negative people. Seriously, I think it far more likely that Aliens will invade tonight than you becoming positive. (And don't laugh, because at times during my struggles with OCD I have had terrible intrusive bouts with fears surrounding ghosts, aliens and other such phenomena! Proof that our obsessions will attach themselves to any vulernable part of our minds). I really hope that this has helped in some small way. I am really sorry if it has come across as a bit clinical, but I wouldn't want to undo all the good advice of OCD-UK by inadvertently feeding the OCD any 'reassurance' that it craves. If you are in CBT it might be worth looking to push yourself to confront the OCD by kissing your friend again (so long as he doesn't mind of course!) and showing your illness that you won't get anything other than a cold from a simple kiss. Please keep posting and keep us informed how you are doing. Lots of kind wishes for a peaceful day. Tez

I am currently reading 'Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder' by Dr Frederick Toates. Because he is a sufferer himself, he really writes with an empathy for people living with OCD, which I enjoy. The only book that I have so far not found useful is the one called 'Tormenting Thoughts and Secret Rituals'. That might be just me though! I have not yet started 'Brain Lock' yet, but it seems to be really growing in popularity... I recently visitied Hampshire's alternative bookstore October Books in Southampton, which is big on mental health, and 'Brain Lock' was flying off the shelves. There is plenty of literature about HIV out there. By educating yourself about the virus and how difficult it is to pass on, it may take the edge off your fear. However, if this becomes a means of quick reassurance-seeking, then it may prove counter-productive. Maybe one of the moderators can suggest whether it is a useful strategy? Cheers for now! Tez

I like the way that you described that, Sammyhostie - having 'another layer' of OCD. I get that a lot - sometimes I find myself seeking reassurance or performing a mental ritual in response to a thought and then I panic that performing the ritual will somehow make the inital thought more 'true'. Then I usually seek reassurance again or start to perform another ritual, and then I panic about the effect of doing this ritual, and so the cycle starts again. Scott's description of how these layers work is really useful. In my case it's obsession : fear that I have sought too much reassurance or performed a ritual I should have been resisting (just like Sammy's what will happen if I touch something too many times), then compulsion trying to reassure myself that there is no danger, either by trying to reason my way out of it logically or else comparing my past behaviour to prove that nothing will happen. And so more doubt comes in and the initial anxiety is only compounded. It is these cycles that I also find the most difficult to break out of. I hope you start to feel better soon Jenny. In the Summer for a while I got it into my head that if I performed one particular complicated ritual then I would be free of OCD and if I didn't, then I would have the disorder for life. Logically I knew that this was nonsensical, but because I couldn't find enough evidence to disprove it, it tormented me for a few weeks. But I got over it, and without doing the ritual either. So even these complicated forms of OCD can be beaten. Please keep us posted on how you are doing. Hope everyone has a peaceful week. Best wishes Tex

Hello Tomo As Scott says, HIV related OCD is very common, as are fears of cancer, MS or whatever. Whilst I have had a lot of obsessions over the years, HIV has never been one of them, probably because a close worker is HIV+ and I've also done volunteering work in sexual health so in a way I've kind of already had behavioural therapy and demystified the issue. What you describe though is at the core of how frustrating OCD can be. You know in your rational, logical mind, that there is no need to worry, but it seems like the emotional mind is going off and doing its own thing! Hope you find the boards of use. It's great to know that other people are going through similar things and can share strength. Best wishes Tez

Hi there Stan, Patsy & everyone. I can't stop for long here as I have to go and get ready to see a friend shortly. But I just wanted to say that I occasionally get into periods of having violent OCD thoughts like this - in fact, when I was a teenager, that's how my OCD started, with those sorts of intrusions. However, you'd be surprised at the number of non-OCD sufferers also experience violent, repugnant or just bizarre intrustive thoughts. In fact, talking to my close friends and relations, it seems that it is common to all human experience. Most people just laugh at such intrusions or dismiss them out of hand and forget, but for OCD sufferers, we worry about what such thoughts might 'mean', and this is at the crux of the problem. I hope you have a peaceful day, and remember that you are not alone with these thoughts. They mean nothing about you at all! Best wishes Tez

Hi Rhonda I hope you are feeling a bit better today. Your opening comment really struck a chord with me and I'm sure, with other OCD-UK board users as well. If only we could listen to our rational selves when we are stuck in an OCD 'trough' of thoughts. When we look at each others problems, our distance from them allows us to cut through the OCD nonsense and view them rationally. But it's so difficult to apply to our own OCD behaviour, ins't it?!? When we're caught in the middle of obsessional thoughts, it's difficult to gain that sense of perspective. That's why internet contact like this board is so useful, as we can help each other see the senselessness of our obsessions and gain that crucial perspective. Have an easy day. Best wishes, Tez

Hi Sam and welcome from me as well. There is so much advice and support for people living with OCD on the internet now, that it's really made a difference to a lot of people's lives. Welcome along, you are not alone on here. Have a good day and best wishes Tez

Hi Hardtime Just a little cyber-hug from me. I really do empathise with your position, because at times in the past I have experienced similar OCD crises where my obsessions have been about things to which, to all practical purposes, there is no answer. I once went through a phase of trying to prove to myself that I would never get cancer, and as you can imagine, got myself into all sorts of pickles because it is impossible for me to know one way or another. I have also had major religious OCD when I was younger as I mentioned once before. Ashley is right - never listen to any one person's opinion, particularly if it is offered in a private message and so cannot be open to scrutiny by the whole OCD 'family' here. Please continue to post and to share ideas. People here need you as much as you need us - as you have seen with this thread, many of us have gone through or have similar OCD's to yours. I've often thought that talking is a powerful way to confront OCD and fight it. If you are in crisis please do what ScottOCD said and use the Samaritans, or SANE-Line who understand all about mental illness... www.sane.org.uk. 0845 767 8000. You might find your local gay and lesbian switchboard of use. I don't know what area you are in, but many of my gay friends recommend London Gay Switchboard on 020 7837 7324, as they are on 24 hours a day and are very experienced. www.llgs.org.uk. Try to be sure though not to seek 'reassurance' or definitive answers from these sources, as this is probably counter-productive in the long run. You are not facing OCD alone, remember that. Kind wishes Tez

Hi Hardtime. Gosh, it sounds like you are really in the wars at the moment. I will try and not offer 'reassurance' as this is not good for long-term recovery from OCD, but it sounds like you could do with a hug. :group: Here's what I think - religion and mental health issues (including OCD) have a bearing on one another, and when you deal with fundamentalist, judgementalist forms of all religions then it can trigger mental ill-health in susceptible people. My grandfather for example, had been brought up in a very, very strict religious family and his father had used to tell him he was wicked and damned when he was a little boy. No wonder than when he became an adult my grandfather suffered terribly from what we would now call social anxiety and Tourette's Syndrome. He also became so anti-faith that he was unable to really pursue his own spirituality. I'm sure he would not have minded me using his example in order to assist others. I have experienced many different types of OCD over the years (collect them all, I am ! ) and I have had terrible bouts of religious anxiety from time to time, so I really relate to what you are going through right now. I do not believe that you are immoral for being a lesbian. I have a lot of gay and lesbian friends who have helped care for me when I have been ill in the past. It sounds like you have been accessing some very awful fundamentalist websites in your search - there is a lot of junk from extremists on the net and anyone living with mental ill-health should be wary of this. Try visiting the website of the Lesbian and Gay Christian Movement (LGCM) who also operate a telephone helpline and a book service. The Metropolitan Community Church, United Church of Christ, Episcopalian Church, Quakers, Unitarians, Universalists, many branches of methodism and many other denominations are fully welcoming of lesbian and gay people. And that's just in the Christian tradition. There are many other spiritual traditions in the world that have all sorts of teachings on sexuality and faith. Did you know for example, that American Indian religions hold that lesbian and gay people can bridge the gap between genders and therefore, have a special peacemaking role in the tribe? As for your assertion that 'my sexuality has been judged immoral by god for centuries and centuries' - well, there's lots of historians and theologians who would beg to differ. I hope this helps in some way. I really hope that you are feeling a bit better today. Keep posting, and keep us informed of how you are doing. OCD-UK is a place that welcomes everyone affected by this horrific disorder and is dedicated to us all supporting each other. Lots of love Tez

Hi Rainbow. I just wanted to say hello and send best wishes as you sound as if you are suffering. I did have 'harming' image OCD when I was a youngster, but over the years it has mutuated (just like a virus) into a different type. However, I wanted to say that talking to family and close friends, I have found that these sorts of images are extremely common, and I take solace in that. There are very, very few people who do not get such bizarre intrusive thoughts like this. My friends therapist even says she gets weird thoughts whenever she sees a pregnant lady on the bus or in the street, and another friend gets thoughts of pushing his fiance over the edge of a cliff whenever they are taking a stroll by the shore. The only difference between us and them is that 'well' people just shrug off a thought, but with us we get terrible anxiety and think it might mean something. Then we try and suppress it, and that brings the thought back. I know it is difficult when you have such bizarre and terrifying thoughts, but I sometimes finds it can help stop you blaming yourself for having them when you realise that everyone gets them. i hope this helps in a little way. Have a good day, and Best Wishes, Tez

Hmm, good question. I have been on fluoxetine for five years now, and it has certainly assisted in taking the depressive edge off things, but for direct impact on the OCD, it has to be therapy I have undertaken both formally, and on my own with the assistance of what I have learned from self-help books and the OCD websites. I am much better these days than in the past, but I don't deny that I have to work hard at it sometimes! Hope you are having a relatively OCD-free day. Cheers Tez

Hi Staz I hope you are having a good day. Reading through your description of some of your OCD symptoms, I relate to them. Over the years, my OCD has often been to recall previous sequences of thoughts in a precise order to make the anxiety go away. Oftentimes, if I get an intrsuive thought I feel the need to recall the previous intrusive thought, and once I recall that I feel that need to remember the one before, and so a little vicious circle can develop. It can get quite distracting at times! I always draw solace knowing that other people have similar experiences and are also fighting them. Wishing everyone a peaceful day Tez

So sad to hear that some schools are not able to disntinguish between sinister websites and those that exist to offer mutual support and advice. Given that so many mental health problems manifest during adolesence, provision of advice and support networks of all descriptions should be a priority in pastoral care. Mind you, perhaps it's just authoritarianism. My former employer, a pretty nasty mutinational corporation, didn't even permit access to the charity Mind's website as it was 'too political'. Now that really is mad! I'm lucky that I managed to get employment in the voluntary sector where staff support is much better. If you have approachable teachers, especially younger ones who have trained in more recent years, perhaps you could discuss how access to websites such as this one can help youngsters living with emotional and mental health support needs. All the best Tez

Hi there. I would just like to second what Idnt said earlier on in the thread. Dreams are complex computing subroutines run by the brain. They reflect what is going on in our subconscious, and Jungian analysts have a field day working out the meaning of it! However, I would caution against reading any further meaning into dreams. OCD is a doubting disease, but it is also a supersitious disease, and there is a bit of a danger when you end up seeing connections which don't really exist that you reinforce OCD type thinking that what goes on in your head has a material affect on the outside world. Keep well best wishes Tez

Hi there. I can only speak from my personal experience, but before I was formally diagnosed with OCD many years back and started 'proper' medication and therapy, I found that cannabis could have a beneficial effect in suppressing my OC symptoms and giving me some relief from the chronic anxiety. However, it is no substitute for the benefits I have gained from engaging in proper therapy and the mutual support of other people living with OCD. Whilst I have never come across any literature suggesting that cannabis has precipitated OCD symptoms, there is some evidence that people with a genetic predisposition to schizophrenia can have that illness triggered by excessive use of cannabis. See www.rethink.org.uk (the main schizophrenia campaigning and support website) for further information on this. Cheers for now Tez