howard

I don't know much about this, but at certain times in our lives we question different parts of our identity. It happens for many people in their twenties when they are trying to decide who they are, and through that questioning they come to some sort of establishing of their identity that makes them feel more comfortable with themselves and who they are and want to be. I say it happens in our twenties because often then we are freed from conforming to family or peer expectations and we can decide who we are. It may also happen at different points in our lives when some event makes us question who we are and what we are doing. So I think it's a natural process that we all participate in, but if you throw ocd anxiety and doubts into the mix it can all seem a bit confusing and daunting.

A few things I've been thinking about (and as always just my opinion, open to debate). I think some people build ocd up into something bigger than it is, as RC writes, 'they see it as an enemy to be fought'. They seem to exaggerate it's power and almost disassociate it from themselves which in many ways empowers it. I now and in line with Rose Cartwright's personal journey to healthy living see it as a 'matrix condition' or as she puts it a 'biopsychosocial model'. So, (and we've talked about this), we have to see it in it's full context; genetic predisposition, family history, personal history and our exposure to environmental/social/political factors that impact on our lives. In effect that our mind is shaped by and reactive to our environment throughout our lives. I also wonder if ocd becomes just another obsession itself. As RC says she co-opted the language of medical professionals and came to define herself through those terms. So after therapy it's important to break free of all that and start living. (actually I've always felt like I was living in some sort of survival mode which goes back to childhood).

I looked into Stomp a bit more. I hadn't realised what a phenomenal success it had become in America. It made about $100M from ticket sales which is wild to me as I remember a few guys just busking and banging out rhythms outside a pub. A few of the students at uni had various health conditions which they explored in their art and it always added a sense of poignancy and power to their work. There's a cabin down in Dungeness which I've visited a few times(I lived nearby). It was Derek Jarman's Prospect cottage with a garden and I would consider it an artwork in it's own right. I got to see some of the interior art for the first time yesterday(in online newspaper). Here is one he made about the AIDs virus. All the medication he had to take each day. Also a painting of him by Maggi Hambling.

It's not an easy question to answer. I suppose it depends on many factors like what level of cleanliness do you feel you require to feel comfortable. If I notice; dust, dirt and grime, I start to feel uncomfortable and actually enjoy cleaning it all up. I think I clean thoroughly on a regular basis, which in say one room involves hoovering every surface starting high up with ledges, tops of doors and work my way down to the carpet. I then wipe every surface with a damp clean cloth. But that may be too much for most people. It just makes me feel comfortable. Maybe instead of 3 hours, limit yourself as @comfortscorned suggests and the timer is a good idea. Using moisturiser every day helps. I'm also trying to make my place easier to clean; white walls(I know but they do look clean) and trying to have as minimal decor as possible.

I think it's part of my personality. I delude myself that I'm some sort of radical outsider. All my friends were into rock bands and electric guitars so although I enjoyed some of that I was drawn to electronic music and experimentation. I used to do all that with cassette tapes and mini disks. I would slow one sound down until it sounded like the wind blowing. It is a very obsessive process; creating sounds, editing(over and over again), finding samples(films, documentaries, news), layering on multiple tracks, etc and slowly building something. It's much easier on the PC these days. I have this idea that it's good to find a focus if we have an obsessive nature. Here's Delia's most famous piece based on a Rob Grainer minimal score.(I'd forgotton about the irreverent Mrs. Merton) (I know this is a forum for mental health support, but it is great to have a section that celebrates culture and is a great distraction).

I think turning up to the DWP with a visual diary, they'd find interesting. I have been looking at how people express ocd through art and film. I hadn't seen those Stomp videos. I wonder how they convinced whoever books acts to put it on. 'We come on stage with some brooms..........'. I'm not sure how I'd describe it, sort of urban rhythmic tribal performance art. A friend and I recorded the performance at the festival and if you look up in the Brooms video those are all the objects they created rhythms on; old car doors, metal road signs, etc.......basically found urban junk. I was thinking that's how I'm going to do my cleaning from now on, inject some contagious building rhythms (Strangely enough I removed Adobe flash a few weeks ago. I'm sure it was causing problems).

I think children are incredibly smart and one approach as well as what snowbear suggests could be; just be honest with your children. Explain that your wife has started to get over anxious about germs and contamination. I'm sure they will be aware of this and may be even be joining in to support and reassure her. So rather than trying to protect your children from wife's anxiety about germs, ask them to help you to try and help your wife. So for example with the trainers/ i pad, explain to your children that it would help your wife if your eldest child wore the trainers and used the i pad. That by doing that they would help your wife realise that nothing bad happened and no one got ill because they acted normally. (In reality we need a certain amount of exposure to germs because that helps strengthen our immune systems, but I'm not sure if they are old enough to grasp that yet).

Yes I do like the Unthanks, simple and complex with the voices harmonising and also being able to hear their accents. I'm glad I guessed the band, it was sort of whirring away somewhere in the back of my mind and yes they produced some good music. I think it was the BFI archive they got to raid for samples. I like it that young fans now get to hear about Gargarin and Spitfires and all the other historical events they reference. Samples of astro/cosmonauts are common. As I'm sure you know; some of the early pioneers of electronic sounds were Delia Derbyshire at the BBC and Daphne Oram. How British is this>

^I particularly like the first photograph, it really captures the space. A sort of majesty. Looking at the roof and knowing the Normans were originally Vikings, it looks like the inside of one of their boats. (my ancestors were Normans, they had a big influence here and in France).

Yes I think a large part of managing ocd is keeping our stress levels low. I had a quick research and you'll be okay(unless you're an antonly joking of course). It only causes minor problems if you ingest a fair amount and any you breathed in will naturally be expelled by your body.

I do have similar contamination issues and on the same day you posted this had exactly the same issue. I always wipe my whole computer down before using it(dust and sweat issue), but especially the mouse and KB(I even clean with damp paintbrush between the keys). It's only me that touches it but I don't even like my own sweat from the day before. I think I must have got some lip balm on my fingers and spread that on the keys. But I just stopped, washed my hands and wiped the keys. I'm now trying to only wipe the PC down every two days instead of everyday. I was scubbing my hands so much at one point, they bled, but I have managed to minimize that as well. Plus I use moisteriser these days. With external contamination, I handle that by just washing my hands when I return home, and I'm careful not to touch my face when I'm out. So I set limits on what I can tolerate, do that and try not to get anxious. I think that's all you can do, try to reduce your rituals until they are as minimal as you can tolerate. I have had these contamination issues for so long that I really don't know anything different. I also try not to get worked up about it because that would lead to more anxiety and overthinking. You mention concerns about your future child picking up on your concerns. I did notice my son doing that at one time and just by pointing it out and saying that's just something I do and you don't have to, he quickly became aware of what not to copy. Also his mother was the complete opposite and now he has no ocd issues so I think children can distinguish between 'necessary' and 'unnecassary' actions themselves because they can differentiate and having two parents helps that. And I found I could reason with my son by the time he was three years old.

Interesting article in the Guardian today by Rose Cartwright. I find that my understanding of ocd ever evolving, like I pick up ideas on this forum that create a sort of rolling insight as each person adds their story. Rose Cartwright has on her own journey talked to many people from mental health professionals to tribal healers and also wrote Pure, which she also helped to adapt to a tv show. She tried therapy both traditional and underground using psychedelics and MDMA. Some of her thoughts echo my present understanding; 'This is what is wrong with the medical model: a failure to understand mental health in context'. 'The insight my ego had been protecting me from was that my mental health was not separate from my family’s'. 'The medical model had taught me everything about being ill, and almost nothing about being a healthy, well-adjusted grownup, who has a sense of agency and accomplishment, whose relationships are infused with trust that reaches right down to the bones, heart, lungs, tummy'. https://www.theguardian.com/society/2024/apr/13/i-was-the-poster-girl-for-ocd-then-i-began-to-question-everything-id-been-told-about-mental-illness

^ I wanted to give both a few listens as it's not a genre I'm familiar with. I can hear there's a depth and emotion in them(especially first one) and a continuity in terms of culture and reference to family. I thought the dancer was doing a sort of wild Tai Chi at first! It is great to get out and share music in a community, glad you enjoyed it. It seems to me that live music and also art galleries are still trying to recover after the absences during covid. I have collected a massive library of music and sound art from around the world, but mostly I listen to a couple of online radios these days that have chilled out tunes and sounds.(Brain Wave radio is one I find really soothing, they use natural sounds layered over gentle music). Was that band you mentioned, Public Service Broadcasting?

What I mean by my first sentences is enjoy being yourself and don't be concerned about how others might see you. Validate yourself rather than being concerned if others validate you or want to be friends with you. I know what you mean about losing close friends that you've known for years even decades. I sometimes think about those friends that I had great times with; great conversations, parties, travelling together having shared adventures and experiences, and in a way it's like a minor form of grief losing them. But it's inevitable that people will change, change and move on. I know ocd people can have difficulties with change and uncertainty. But heck you can always talk to us in the ocd clan

@Kcbell92 I think it's important to build a strong sense of self worth and to be happy in your own company. Focus on yourself and what you enjoy, first. Then you will find and attract those who appreciate you for who you are and your confidence in being who you are. I think it can be difficult for people with ocd because frankly most people don't understand and can make judgements that aren't helpful. But as stated above; people and friends are in constant flux around us. Also people are continually changing and evolving and that's why close friends and even people you are in a relationship with may diverge and take a different path. But new people may diverge and enter you orbit.

Yes I know what that's like, so busy caring for children and responsibilities that it's easy to suppress our own thoughts and feelings, but it's important to make sure you have some time to yourself. Just to allow yourself to experience those feelings and process those thoughts and not let them build up. Often we can suppress and repress those for a while. But sometimes when we sleep we connect with them.

I did try to find the whole collection of her diary of how she felt during her mental health problems. I even tried her website(which leads to some other interesting pieces she's done like 'Roving Diagnostic Unit'), but that just showed someone looking at the pictures at the exhibition you mentioned. Although there is a book collection. It's a good idea to keep a diary during long term illnesses. It's useful to us as we can monitor our progress, but also useful if being diagnosed or even to show the DWP. I'm not sure what they'd make of BB's though.(that's clearly her). Yes I have some problems with words and remembering them. I was firstly intrigued by Stockhausen and some of those early sound art performers, then their experiments started to slowly cross over into the mainsteam music like early Pink Floyd. I am continually these days playing the game of spot the sample used in tunes. Now those I do have a good memory for. This crew used to busk outside the pubs in Brighton when we left at night. I later went to festival with just them playing and they went on to do Stomp. (loud and hectic warning)> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5z2rpmg06g&ab_channel=VideoOverload

Wow that is some image above. I suppose she was keeping a sort of visual diary of her mental state at that time. I need to know more. I also thought that the How to Live piece covered fashion as art. The type of shoes or boots we wear just like the clothes we wear says something about us. Personal artistic expression. I'm not sure who you mean, there are many bands who just use sounds. And yes sound art does have a very specific and very small audience. I used to go to a sound art club, mainly a few sound geeks and occasionally a band would turn up looking for someone to add another layer to their music. Again with artists like Campbell, Tinguely, and Basinski, they set up a system which enhances randomness. Campbell uses rotating magnets to degrade the sounds on the tape. Here's a quick piece on Tinguely's work>

I think we can see on here how a combination of feelings and thoughts, particularly negatives ones can spiral out of control. Those feelings can range from anxiety to fear, but others are caught up up in other feelings and emotions. Is there anything that could have set this off? (I occasionally wake from a bad dream and feel panicked and personally the way humanity seems to be heading at present is conjuring an existential dread in me). You could try as Angst suggests; lay somewhere quiet, breathe slowly and deeply and focus on your breathing(just like meditation), focus on your breathing rather than thinking. I think this helps because when we experience high anxiety and fear our body goes into the flight or fight mode and shallow breathing is a part of that process. So we by slow breathing are bringing the body and mind back from that state. Also you could try writing down the thoughts. It helps to objectify the thoughts and place them outside our minds. Then at a time when you are less anxious you could apply some rationalisations and write those down. I'm not sure which coping mechanisms you have used already, but it's good to have a few ones that work for you and you can develop and use if you feel anxious in the future.

It doesn't sound like ocd to me and this idea that's often put forward on here that if you had an ocd theme in the past, then the present diagnosis is also ocd is spurious. If you had a panic attack over four months ago it's understandable why you might run through those thoughts that you did, also it was christmas a time of higher anxiety for most. It's also understandable why you would keep running those thoughts through your mind, they disurbed you. It's good to rule out a sleeping problem. I suppose see how it goes with the sertraline and try to sit with the anxiety. Try to just accept it and allow it to pass.(as you say)

@Chris1987 one of the main reasons people suffer from anxiety is that they had a stressful childhood which means that their anxiety and cortisol base levels were set high. The stress causes the excessive amounts of cortisol being released to damage the neuro-receptors if it occurs over years so that even if the stress factor is lessened or removed, the level of anxiety remains higher than normal. So small anxiety inducing incidents that most people would quickly either accept or adapt to become high prolonged anxiety inducing events. You mentioned having a 'panic attack' in bed. How are you sleeping? The body builds up it's levels of cortisol during the night ready for any normal anxiety we might face during the day. So if we are sleeping poorly that cortisol production is lessened and we are less able to handle normal low level anxiety inducing events.

Yes I think we can all relate to overthinking and there are quite a few on here with relationship anxiety(you'll probably see some examples in recent threads). I tend to try to focus my overthinking and use it in a positive way, it's one of my ways of working with my ocd symptoms. Sometimes it gets too much though and I have to do something totally absorbing(gaming) to stop repetitive cycles of thinking. IBS is a nightmare if you have cleanliness issues(not sure if you do). I believe using CBD paste really helped reduce my ibs to almost non existent(I used to get migraines as well). I stopped using the paste for a few weeks and my ibs returned. I had been through the hospital programme for ibs but that didn't help. I think the paste helps because it goes straight to the stomach and calms the surrounding nervous system which controls the ways food is processed and expelled from our guts.

I think that's one of the ways we measure if ocd is a problem, 'when it consistently hinders our daily routines', so if in your case it doesn't don't worry and try to let it go. I have a different approach to ocd to some; as long as it's low level it doesn't bother me in fact I see some positives like avoiding becoming ill(I was well prepared mentally and in terms of protection for the coronavirus). It's only if I'm highly stressed that my anxiety levels peak and I start over-checking and over-thinking, so knowing that I make sure to keep my stress levels low.

She is funny. I just watched that. This is the thing with art, it's like a view of reality through the prism of the artist's psychology so maybe her mental health issues affected her thinking giving her a unique viewpoint. Here's another sound art piece which can be traced back through; Tinguely, Cage, Basinski, Reich, etc It's called LUP by Lomand Campbell where he used part of an old portable cassette player, some offset cogs and tape loops which he then fed into a modular synthesiser.