Getting worse again

[Guest Brainstrain]

Hello Smudger

Please don't let yourself get completely smallowed up into your ocd world, it sounds horribly like you are about to give in completely to it and you can't do that, you can't let it win. As many people have said, if you really were the type of person that could do such a thing you wouldn't be spending so much time worrying about it, you would have probably already done it again another few times and would be planning your next attack! Also if you start believing that you did do it, where does that leave the rest of us?! Does that mean we all did or want to do our 'things' too? I think it makes much more sense that all of us are suffering the same symptoms of a horrible and dibilitating brain disorder, just like all people with the mumps have the same symptoms, so do we. This is an illness and you must keep believing that - it's the only thing that gets me through and if I keep repeating that to myself and my thoughts every time they pop up I am learning to try to be 'normal' for some of the time now and you must do the same!

Sorry bit of a lecture there but you seem like such a nice caring bloke who doesn't deserve to be feeling so bad.

Brainstrain :blushing:

[Guest Saffa]

Smudge!!!!!!

All the advice you keep giving me! All the wanderful advice you give others here...you have to take it yourself!!

You can't give in!! Just like I can't and the rest of us can't! You just keep struggling day to day until it eases!

This is OCD. If it wasn't OCD you would not be feeling this way! The very nature of OCD is to make you feel this way! To make all of us feel the way we do. How someone can believe that something is dirty when he can see its clean, how someone can believe he has run over someone even when he drives back and looks over again, how someone can worry about being gay even though he or she is perfectly happy the way they are already, the list goes on, and on..just in our case its how we believe we have done somethong unforgivable! I read about someone..I dont remeber who..who beleived there was a cat in the fridge ! and kept checking..... How I think I have not payed for things even though I have asked the shop keeper twice of three times! How some one worries they have not turned of the light properly even after checking...etc etc etc etc

It is so easy to lose hope and to despair of the situation.... but we have to keep plodding on because maybe tomorrow will be the day that we start to get over it, that we start to battle it!

Smudge I am with you..I AM you..I understand exactly the hell you are going through! And even though I never take my own advice..I am giving it to you....you have to let go! IT IS OCD!!! IT IS OCD!!! Don't lose hope! Please please don't lose hope.

Sure we don't know each other but from everything you have written I am sure you are a wonderful and caring person! And before you even think it you are not pulling the wool over our eyes!

Don't give in to this demon! I am always around if you need to chat!

Im sending you love and hugs!

You are in my thoughts

Saffa

[Guest Dragonfruit]

Smudger

Please go back and read all the advice you have given others on this thread - and accept it for yourself.

You've done nothing wrong - you don't deserve any of the torment and you do need to try to accept that.

(Somewhat off topic cos it has no bearing on whether or not you should be able to accept you have done nothing wrong - I just wondered - do you think if you DID see this girl again and asked her to tell you how things happened as far as she remembers and she confirmed your story to the letter - do you think it would help you??? I only ask because I don't really have much of the false memory doubt - but I do know that if someone else told me the front door was locked or whatever I would still have had to check it myself - just wondered if this was different and that getting confirmation from the girl would help you or not. Sorry if I'm being more ignorant than usual)

Back on topic - you know it's the OCD - you know you are a good person - we all know it too - so we won't let you continue feeling this bad without giving you a big prod with a sharp stick .

You don't deserve to feel bad and you need to get past this........

Heaps of hugs and support - you can get through this

[Guest Smudger]

Thanks once again everyone

Feeling a bit better today-saw my shrink and had a chat with him. He said a lot of helpful things-he said that being drunk wouldn't have made me into a child abuser-if I'd had a genuine desire to abuse a child it may have lowered my inhibtions, but it wouldn't make me something I'm not. He said that the reason I have such an extreme reaction to my memories of that time is that they are basically unhapy ones (the onset of this kind of ocd and other stuff), and it's become such a well-troden path in my brain that the feelings of fear etc are pretty much deeply ingrained in me.

Dragonfruit: I don't think speaking to her would help. I've thought about it, and it scares me for a number of reasons-first is obviously that she tells me I did abuse her. Second is that I'd make it worse for myself-she could say no, but I'd just worry that she was lying, or she'd blocked it out of her memory, or that (and I know this sounds horrible) she might one day falsely accuse me of abusing her.

I have asked her beforehand though-when all this first started I asked her a couple of times if I'd ever done anything to hurt her (she said no), and when I came out of hospital after my suicide attempt I spoke to her mum (who is a friend) and explained it to her (kind of anyway-I said I was worried that I'd hurt her daughter, and could she please ask her if I had (I couldn't bring myself to say 'abused'), and again the answer was no.

Still doesn't stop me worrying though.

[Guest Dragonfruit]

Glad you're doing better today! Yippee!

Yeah - I didn't think it would help you much - the logic doesn't really mean anything when the OCD is telling you lies. Just wondered really....

Anyway - sounds as though you're having a good day which is great - focus on the truth and you'll do great!!

[Guest thelma]

Hiya Smudger, I hope that things are ok with you at the moment.You do give such fantastic advice to others,but I know how hard it is to tell yourself the same.All I know is that you are a great guy,who anybody would be pleased to have as a friend.We have never met,but I just know that you wouldn't and couldn;t do anything to even slightly offend another person,let alone hurt them.Like yourself,I constantly scan my brain for my mistakes in the past,but now I am just lost in a huge maze,with thick fog always approaching.Please never,ever give up.Take care,Thelma

[Guest Smudger]

Thanks T

I'm finding it quite hard at the moment-nothing's really changed, other than, I dunno-I just feel really anxious and scared. It's not like I've had new thoughts that make me worry about my innocence, I just feel on edge.

I hope my shrink is right-I hope the thoughts coming back is them in their 'death throes' (he said that sometimes the ocd will make a last desperate attack on you when you've been doing well), but I don't hold out much hope.

[Guest Smudger]

This is too much. I'm never going to get over this.

I went to the 'Look up library' at the ocfoundation, ran a search on alcohol, and found a letter from a guy who said he'd been suffering from 'gay' ocd for 15 years, and one night got drunk and went out with a male prostitute. This obviously hasn't helped at all-if one person with ocd can give into it whilst drunk, why couldn't I?

I know that it's possible that the guy's 'gay' ocd may not have been that at all, and he may have just been genuinely struggling with his sexuality, but there's also the chance that it's not.

I even hate myself for putting "This is too much. I'm never going to get over this.", because I feel like I know I'm guilty and I'm just asking you guys to bail me out again.

[Guest alpha]

Hi Smudger,

I am thinking of you and you WILL pull through this, do you hear me???

I hope my shrink is right-I hope the thoughts coming back is them in their 'death throes' (he said that sometimes the ocd will make a last desperate attack on you when you've been doing well), but I don't hold out much hope.

He IS right. You know this is OCD, OCD about OCD. OCD attaching itself to anything, anything that you haven't read about/ considered before, something that you just have to go through one last time .......... it goes on and on, doesn't it?

It'll be okay. You have got us. We've all been there, may soon go back there or are still there. Please don't give up.

God bless.

Alpha

[Guest Smudger]

Thanks Alpha

I'm trying, but everytime I do the voice in my head just keeps saying "Why are you fighting this? You know it's true-you don't have to remember everything to know that. You have enough evidence-it's not important that you can't remember everything".

I feel like such a fraud. A fraud, and a complete scumbag rapist piece of ****.

[Guest alpha]

Hi Smudger,

What evidence is this? Would it stand up in court? YOU KNOW THIS IS OCD. I know this is OCD.

Want to know something, I would leave my 2 kids with you, no problem.

I have felt like such a fraud too. But it's the OCD, it makes you feel like that. The guilt and anxiety are exaggerated and false.

You sound like such a great person, with great morals and great sensitivity.

Alpha

[Guest Smudger]

Want to know something, I would leave my 2 kids with you, no problem. 

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That's really kind of you Alpha, and to be honest, yours or anyone elses kids would be perfectly safe with me, but I'm worried that drinking and anger made me do something despicable-made me act completely out of character.

I've got too many mixed up half remembered memories, and they terrify me.

On the chance that this is ocd, I'm equally as terrified that I'll twist all the confusing and scary thoughts into a 100% believable scenario, and what do I do then? It seems guilty or innocent, the outcome is still the same.

[Guest alpha]

Hey smudger,

Half mixed up memories are OCD. I know you're going to say "Yeah, but what about the alcohol", but you would have known Smudger, especially someone like you who has OCD and is totally repulsed about anything like that.

This situation is OCD, just like every other situation. Otherwise all the other situations (yep all of them) are suspect and then not only are you in trouble, I am too and so is everyone else on the board.

Alpha

[Guest Smudger]

I just can't find any good in this. Anything even potentially reassuring is just getting shot down, and it feels like it deserves to be because it's just me keeping the lie going so I don't have to finallly admit to my evil, and not have anywhere left to hide.

Sorry alpha, I don't mean to put all this on you.

[Guest alpha]

Hey Smudger,

No worries. Not sure I'm helping at all. I've been there - desperate in my own way. Staring into a dark abyss and considering jumping into it. (Sorry that sounds so melodramatic but it's true). In fact, I'm not having my best week, after being so good, but that's OCD for you.

One thing I have found to be true though is that the more I have thought about something, the worse it gets. And the deeper I got, the worse I felt and the stronger the OCD grip on me got and the more blurred my perspective became. I think maybe it's getting to this point with you? Not seeing the wood for the trees? When I was really bad, I could almost visualise my brain shooting off more and more neurons or whatever as I went over and over everything. The worst is going through the horrible feelings when you've decided not to reassure or anything though. But they do eventually fade and the feeling to go over it fades too.

OCD mimics reality, but reality never mimics OCD. (Brain Lock.)

Alpha

[Guest Smudger]

You're great Alpha

What's troubling you?

[Guest MajesticShannon]

hi smudger.......

sure proof that it IS ocd is the fact that you asked the girl if you'd hurt her, and then asked her mum aswell. They both said 'no', but still you wont accept it - this is blatantly OCD.

Even if the little girl came and knocked on your door tomorrow and said to you that in no way did you do anything bad to her that night, like you say, the ocd would just doubt if shes telling the truth, or doubt whether in the future she might remember 'what really happened'. Ive gone through exactly these same feelings, and it is a positive that we all feel like this. We are all on here living under this cloud together - thats because we are good people and have consciences, probly overactive ones. WOuld someone who got drunk and raped a child really ask her about it? Why would he? Why would someone who raped a girl go and ask that girls mother? WOuld that not be blowing his cover and giving himself away? Isnt that like a bank robber turning up at the bank the next day and giving the money back? Would that person not feel such shame that he would even consider asking the mother or the child? I cant even write the line 'raping a girl' without feeling terrible guilt, shame and anxiety, so is there a cat in hells chance that we could have actually done these things

No amount of reassurance can convince us smudger, even if its standing right there and smacking us in the face What can you do if this is true anyway? If it is true, or isnt, there is no use in stressing about it to the point you are feeling this way. You're a sound bloke, and that girl probly thinks the world of you. I know it feels real, but dont give in!!!! There seems to be a lot of us on here with similar problems.......and i dont want to tempt fate , but it is very long odds that we could all have done these horrible things, write about them to strangers on a message board, yet none of us been contacted by the police??

keep the faith! ! ! ! !

[Guest Smudger]

Thanks MS

You make some really good points, and you've said some really kind things-thankyou

I too always feel like I'm tempting fate, and I suppose in a way that coming here doesn't help-every one is so nice it just makes me feel like an even bigger fraud! Don't get me wrong-I'm nothing but grateful and have nothing but genuine gratitude to all of you for your kindness-don't think I'm trying to say you're all making me feel bad, because you're not!

[Guest alpha]

Hi Smudger and Majestic Shannon, (what an exotic name )

Great posts you been doing MS, really good to read.

I too always feel like I'm tempting fate, and I suppose in a way that coming here doesn't help-every one is so nice it just makes me feel like an even bigger fraud! Don't get me wrong-I'm nothing but grateful and have nothing but genuine gratitude to all of you for your kindness-don't think I'm trying to say you're all making me feel bad, because you're not!

I could have typed this Smudger, so I know exactly where you are coming from!

Thanks for your comments above. I am trying realllllllly hard not to think about my problem and trying to resist the temptation to talk about it. :mad: I have thrown myself headlong in to work this week. To try keep my mind off things. It has sort of worked.

Take care

Alpha

[Guest Smudger]

Does anybody know of any articles relating to ocd sufferers whose problem lies in the fear that they may have done something, as opposed to being afraid they will?

I'd be interested to read the opinion of someone like Schwartz or Phillipson regarding this particular flavour of ocd.

[Guest MajesticShannon]

............have you read 'thinking the unthinkable' smudger?

[Guest Smudger]

Nope, only 'The Imp of the Mind' and 'Tormenting Thoughts and Secret Rituals'. Why is that?

[Guest MajesticShannon]

Nope, only 'The Imp of the Mind' and 'Tormenting Thoughts and Secret Rituals'. Why is that?

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http://www.ocdonline.com/articlephillipson1.htm

i found it more helpful than the two book above.........hope you do too. Especially the model, which helps makes sense of this thinking. Let us know what you think mate.

[Guest Smudger]

It's a good article mate-I've read it before, but it was nice to go over it again and be reminded of certain significant points that I'd forgotten.

I suppose I'm just looking for reassurance, which is wrong, but I'd still like to read something dealing solely with people whose obsessions relate to the worry that they've already done the thing they fear-if there was something that showed studies relating to that and alcohol as well, that would be good.

I suppose though, that if drinking somehow made people with ocd prone to acting out their fears it would be a big issue in the ocd world (after all, if it was a recognised problem I'd assume it would feature in every Do and Don't list for ocd currently written.

I took comfort int the part of the article that said a worsening of your ocd is a sign that you've been succesfully starving it, and that it's on it's last legs, but then it comes back to me and the 'drunk' thing. I'm trying to see that as just being part of my problem, that the reason it's such a headache for me is because it makes it so much easier for the ocd to maintain its grip on me.

Anyway, thanks Majestic-despite my rambling and whining I really do appreciate it.

:hug:

[Guest robert1]

smudger what semms to be working at the moment for me is leave all the thoughts and such to one side for one moment,now do you want to be the type of person that does these things ,like me the answer is no,then work backwards with that thought and the thoughts lose their edge because you know you don't want to be that person which in turn means you do not want to do these sort of things ,now leave all the thoughts in your head and go and do something else and laugh at the thoughts ,sensations and urges.