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Guest Ramos28

Karma, the power of intention, the power of words?

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Guest Ramos28

Hi,

this is my first post on this forum so first of all I want to say hello to everyone and thanks for having me here.

My question is regarding the power of thoughts (magical thinking), karma, the power of words, etc...

There is a lot of self help teachings that say what you think will materialize, that thoughts and words have power, etc, etc. So as an OCDer I've started to obsess about that.

I always think about negative things happening to my friends, family, and myself. I'm having thoughts about death, accidents, catastrophes, etc. and then I obsess thinking that because I thought it, it will happen. Now I'm starting to realize that it probably isn't true, but I can't let go because i say to myself that because you've thought so much about it, i've started this process in the universe that will eventually kill someone in my family (sooo much negativity death eventualy, and despite me knowing better now it has already started). I feel like i need to reverse the process somehow, change those negative thoughts into positives, etc.

Also, what do you think of Karma? I can't even think a negative thought or say something slightly not nice, because i feel like Karma is going to come and bite me in the ass.

Any help is appreciated! Thank you!

Ramos28

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Guest cat1

hi ramos,welcome to ocduk! i dont personally believe in karma,although i agree with a lot of the buddhist concepts,i cant agree with that one.I also dont believe that thinking an accident is going to happen to those close to us,will make it likely to come true.i used to think that our thoughts shaped our reality but i dont know now what i think about that.i think if u think positive thoughts,it can make u feel more positive.But im not sure it makes positive things more likely to happen.id like to believe it did,but then where would that leave the effect of negative thoughts..mmm.

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Hi,

this is my first post on this forum so first of all I want to say hello to everyone and thanks for having me here.

My question is regarding the power of thoughts (magical thinking), karma, the power of words, etc...

There is a lot of self help teachings that say what you think will materialize, that thoughts and words have power, etc, etc. So as an OCDer I've started to obsess about that.

I always think about negative things happening to my friends, family, and myself. I'm having thoughts about death, accidents, catastrophes, etc. and then I obsess thinking that because I thought it, it will happen. Now I'm starting to realize that it probably isn't true, but I can't let go because i say to myself that because you've thought so much about it, i've started this process in the universe that will eventually kill someone in my family (sooo much negativity death eventualy, and despite me knowing better now it has already started). I feel like i need to reverse the process somehow, change those negative thoughts into positives, etc.

Also, what do you think of Karma? I can't even think a negative thought or say something slightly not nice, because i feel like Karma is going to come and bite me in the ass.

Any help is appreciated! Thank you!

Ramos28

Welcome!

Being a Buddhist, the idea of Karma is hard for me with my OCD. I have a hard time because I truly believe in the KARMA/What If? scenarios coming true. So, you are definitely not alone.

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Guest Ramos28
Welcome!

Being a Buddhist, the idea of Karma is hard for me with my OCD. I have a hard time because I truly believe in the KARMA/What If? scenarios coming true. So, you are definitely not alone.

and i'm not even a Buddhist, i have that. So i understand your struggle!

but all these Secrets, etc. teachings somehow still affect me....

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Guest cat1

ramos,have u ever read a book called 'the power of now'? its by ekhart tolle.It tells you how thoughts work etc.I found it very helpful for my ocd,although its not about ocd.Another good book i read is called 'awareness' by anthony de mello.I spent years reading self help books,and dont anymore,as these two books make far more sense to me.

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Guest Ramos28
ramos,have u ever read a book called 'the power of now'? its by ekhart tolle.It tells you how thoughts work etc.I found it very helpful for my ocd,although its not about ocd.Another good book i read is called 'awareness' by anthony de mello.I spent years reading self help books,and dont anymore,as these two books make far more sense to me.

i'd like to read them if you think they could be helpful. I've heard of "the power of now" before.

Thanks!

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Welcome to the forum, Ramos.

Yeah, karma exists as far as I'm concerned. It's somewhat tied in with my 'numbers' issue, so if I come across a particular number and OCD is irritating me, something rotten will probably happen to prove the existence of the bad number. :thumbdown:

cheers

Heryn

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Guest Ramos28

i think it might exist but on a much larger scale than i worry about it...too me every thought can bring bad karma, but i thin its b/s and i need to relax about it. it might not even exist.

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Guest cat1

no offense to anyone beliefs here,but ramos,do u think its logical that we wished bad things to happen to people that they always would? if that were the case,we would be god right? think about it....! if id had that power i would be a mass murderer by now!

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Hi Ramos28!

I don't know what to believe anymore. Certainly bad karma is happening to us at the mo. Money is bleeding away like anything, every month there is an unexpected tax or expense and we cannot get rid of our debts and return back home. This country is doing my head in and there appears to be nothing I can do to stop these events. Yet I'm a good, kind person so why?

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Guest Ramos28

that's the thing...i am learning to accept these thoughts right now and not to worry about them...but still OCD plays a trick and tells you that it's real...you know how it is...the more I don't care about the thoughts the less they come into my head, which is of course the typical OCD therapy trick...its just so hard to get yourself to relax and not care about these thoughts...

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I don't personally believe in karma...for me, just a quick glance round the world shows that it's simply not happening. Sometimes things go wrong for no rhyme or reason and there isn't always someone to blame or a reason to fall back on. I guess most people, including myself, feel out of control of events from time to time and we want to believe there's a bigger pattern at work.

I think, though, whatever you believe, it's important not to attribute too much importance or power to a simple thought. Actions are what define a person and impact negatively or positively on the world. I can have constant repetitive intrusive thoughts about hurting my boyfriend but if I behave towards him in a basically loving way then it is this that defines me and our relationship...not some random, intrusive thought.

Thoughts can't hurt or help anyone, it's your actions that count. See them for what they are and, as hard as I know it can be, try to relabel the reaction they cause and move your mind on.

xx

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Guest cat1

thats a fantastic response lizbeth! ur spot on! thoughts dont define us solely,although what we think about ourselves is who we are (im not referring to intrusive thoughts though here!),ie we are struggling i think to become self defined.I spoke to a therapist friend of mine recently,who was trying to help me with my ocd in an unofficial capacity,as she specialises in counselling people with ocd.And she started talking to me about the person centred approach in counselling,ie the idea that we're all instinctively moving towards our potential and that the aim of that counselling is to help a person become self defined and not 'others' defined,ie defined by others beliefs about ut and who they think we are.At the time when she said this,i couldnt see how those theories could help my ocd,but now im a lot better than i was then,i can totally see what she meant.Its ironic as i trained as a person centred counsellor yet didnt see how to apply it to my own ocd and life! But ive realised that however horrible my ocd is,its giving me a chance to say no to the thoughts and be who i define myself to be.Ive also read that a lot of people who have family backgrounds where they are constantly criticised and who they think they are is devalued,often grow up to have anxiety disorders and ocd.I can see that now in my own background,as i think thats influenced my ocd in later life partly.Beliefs are what they say they are 'belief',ie what u believe,they are not always the same as facts.The fact that millions of people believe in god with no physical evidence is just one of them...

I also think that sometimes things just happen because they do,and that not eveything happens for a reason.I think this belief is helping me with my ocd,as im trying to become more confortable with not knowing and eventually hopefully not caring about every feeling i feel or wondering why i do what i do.

I guess the way i see it,id rather not believe in a god or a greater force,as if things go wrong do u attribute it to them or yourself?I feel better knowing that im responsible for my life,as that gives me a sense of more autonomy,although obviously when things go wrong its harder to deal with! but in those cases i tend to say that mistake are human nature and u usually learn something from every mistake.

I got into wicca once but had great trouble with the concept of focussed intention,ie spells,as i tended to think that while it is a great feeling to think u can influence things to happen,ui got worried about people putting spells on me! I do think that thoughts can create reality though,is that if u say that u are going to achieve something,ur positive energy gets put out there and draws it to u.But i think actions sometimes need to be taken also to make it happen.Ive had things happen like that,for ages ive been telling the universe i want some counselling clients or that things were getting too much with my ocd,and everytime they got too much,it would let up.And now i have potential clients! so who knows if thats coincidence or because i put the thoughts out there!

Edited by Guest

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Nope, I don't give the idea of Karma much credence either I have to say.

It's often used when people have been hurt, for example "don't worry, they'll get what's coming to them evenutally" etc but if this is true, then the pain a person is feeling which makes them wish this on someone must be deserved too, they must have done something bad to feel bad, badly explained I know!

Basically I think it's a nonsense and stuff really does just happen!

xx

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Guest Ramos28

great replies guys...

I really wish there was no karma and you can just make mistakes and learn from them without being worries that something is going to bite you in the ass. I have this fear of the future and the unknown, and so it does bother me big time.

Also, the hole idea of spells and magical thinking...I have this ocd thoughts that i can send negative energy to people which will bring misfortune in their lives...i'm not trying to do that, i wish all people well, but its just my ocd kicks in. The scary thing is not that I will do something, but that negative thought/energy will, and that causes a lot of anxiety.

Magical thinking sucks pretty much, but it feels so real.

about putting negative/positive thoughts out there...what if my brain is stuck on the negative thoughts, will they come true then? that is what causing me a lot of anxiety now a days since i think negative thoughts 24/7 and i'm stuck in that pattern.

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Also, what do you think of Karma? I can't even think a negative thought or say something slightly not nice, because i feel like Karma is going to come and bite me in the ass.

Hi Ramos28,

I've got to confess I know very little about Karma and how it supposed to work, so I might have got this kinda wrong.

One thing I was wondering though, is how much you think you're OCD and magical thinking may have adapted your perception Karma and how it 'is', I suppose. It just seemd to me that your - possibly OCD assisted - view of Karma is one of some sort of overzealous spiritual policeman, that hands out punishment even for the slightest of infringements. I mean, is that really how Karma is supposed to work, as I does appear a tad harsh to me? :)

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about putting negative/positive thoughts out there...what if my brain is stuck on the negative thoughts, will they come true then? that is what causing me a lot of anxiety now a days since i think negative thoughts 24/7 and i'm stuck in that pattern.

I think sun&clouds is onto something - all OCD no matter how it manifests itself always exaggerates a concern (usually rational) to a point of irrationality.

I haven't really got any firm views either way about karma - it may be real or it may not, what really matters though is that it sounds as though the OCD has latched onto this aspect of belief to a point where it's no longer helpful to your quality of life.

In a way you've been trapped twice - both by the OCD (stuck in the pattern) but also how you view the role of karma (a form of magical thinking). All OCD is an attempt at control and trying to minimise uncertainty in our lives - unfortunately there are no certainties in life and realistically we only have so much control/influence in our lives.

You will never be able to either prove or disprove the existence of karma - what matters is living your life how YOU would like to live it and NOT how the OCD dictates. It may mean that for you to move forward you have to break the cycle by standing up to OCD and your beliefs about karma itself.

No matter what form of OCD we each have it's always counter-productive - I think I'm right in saying that the true role of karma should be a positive one. The fact that it's now causing you so much anxiety shows that it's real message has been hijacked by the negative influence of OCD.

I haven't expressed that very well (quite a complex set of ideas), but I hope you get the jist of what I mean :original:

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Guest Ramos28

It just seemd to me that your - possibly OCD assisted - view of Karma is one of some sort of overzealous spiritual policeman, that hands out punishment even for the slightest of infringements.

This is SOOOOO TRUEEE!!! when i have been a Christian that was my view of God and I had a terrible time living life...when i deconverted i had a period when i was enjoying life and improving in my mental health, but i am back to THE EXACTLY SAME feelings of Karma being that policeman. ITS IDENTICAL!!!! So i'm back in the same thought pattern that I tried to run away from...

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Guest Ramos28

but besides to Karma there is another thing that i've mentioned before...

i've been thinking so much about negative things happening to my family that even now that i realize each individual thoughts can't do much, i am afraid that the sum of these negative thoughts sent into universe can be harmful and i don't know how to 'undo' it, and i know you know what i mean when I say 'undo'.

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When magical thinking OCD and religious concepts combine it can be very unhelpful. It's like pouring petrol onto a fire in my case!

You could describe OCD thinking as the perceived concept of Karmic thinking in a nutshell. ie "if I do, think or say "bad A" then "bad B" will happen to me" etc - one thing I heard recently about the meaning of Karma roughly translated means "your doing" which means it does not necessarily mean that lots of inordinately bad things will happen to you because of what you do, just that it's a teaching to be aware of the consequences of everyday actions.... Of course everyone with OCD can be fully aware of this but it doesn't stop the fear and dread which comes with it.

Edited by Guest

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In a way you've been trapped twice - both by the OCD (stuck in the pattern) but also how you view the role of karma (a form of magical thinking). All OCD is an attempt at control and trying to minimise uncertainty in our lives - unfortunately there are no certainties in life and realistically we only have so much control/influence in our lives.

An example of my own personal brand of magical thinking concerns itself with what music I listen to. If I listen to the ‘wrong’ album, then something bad is going to happen. Magical thinking has led me somehow to believe that a plastic disc with sounds burnt onto it, has the power to determine events within my life. It sounds ridiculous and of course is, yet I still get a little twinge from my OCD every time I reach for an album not on the ‘OCD and magical thought approved listening list.’ On one side I’ve got the magical thought and on the other I’ve got my OCD telling me that it’s too risky not to listen to the magical thought. I can’t back out of it. Like you've suggested, I’m surrounded.

The only real way out of it is to try and ignore both of them. That's one of those easily said as opposed to done things :) Though I think I'm gradually coming to the rational conclusion - hopefully - that the universe, or whatever, isn't particular interested in the music I listen to and even less in what unpleasant thoughts my OCD had generated.

Edited by Guest

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Guest legend

yep, sun and clouds, thats the problem, because we believe the ocd, we comply to its demands...

thats when the " feel the fear and do it anyway" comes into force, and of course, whats the worse that could

happen??? nothing

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An example of my own personal brand of magical thinking concerns itself with what music I listen to. If I listen to the ‘wrong’ album, then something bad is going to happen. Magical thinking has led me somehow to believe that a plastic disc with sounds burnt onto it, has the power to determine events within my life. It sounds ridiculous and of course is, yet I still get a little twinge from my OCD every time I reach for an album not on the ‘OCD and magical thought approved listening list.’ On one side I’ve got the magical thought and on the other I’ve got my OCD telling me that it’s too risky not to listen to the magical thought. I can’t back out of it. Like you've suggested, I’m surrounded.

The only real way out of it is to try and ignore both of them. That's one of those easily said as opposed to done things :)

Totally understand this one S&C! It had it worse when I was younger and even now the associations with listening to a particular song or album can trigger OCD spikes which on the whole I can ignore...

'Surrounded' is a great way of describing it - it's such a horrible time-wasting condition...

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yep, sun and clouds, thats the problem, because we believe the ocd, we comply to its demands...

thats when the " feel the fear and do it anyway" comes into force, and of course, whats the worse that could

happen??? nothing

Yep, absolutely Legend. I think I'm still in a bit of a fight with my OCD over this one - I think we're currently at a draw at the moment :). I might just get all the albums I make these associations with and just listen to them, one after another.

Edited by Guest

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I might just get all the albums I make these associations with and just listen to them, one after another.

That would be brilliant ERP - show OCD you're the boss :boxing: sun&clouds

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