4 Goes Mad Season - Jon Richardson: A Little Bit OCD

[Biccy]

I found the program very good I felt it explained ocd . I think they did show how it affects the mind and I think it will open the eyes of those who think its just hand washing

[Guest Elle Belle]

5/10 for me.

There was a lot of good about the programme, but on the whole, I was disappointed.

I liked how they touched upon intrusive thoughts - but they really only touched upon them. (Blink and you missed it.) The majority of reading I have done about OCD and posts on this forum and my own experience have led me to the conclusion that OCD is often much more obsession driven; however I still think that on seeing that programme many people would see it as compulsion driven. I kept smiling at the start because I do so many of things Jon and the other guy do with regards to balancing out sensations on each side - and have done since I was five. But I can honestly say in my case, like Jon, the compulsions don't distress me much at all. Nothing like as much as the obsessions. Yet there was so little on this.

I know this will sound ridiculous but I had a fear before watching the programme that they'd go into the nature of intrusive thoughts (which I really wanted them to and was disappointed they didn't) and that people who know me, especially at work, would wonder if I'd had harm/sexual obsessions (which I have).

Then when watching the programme they didn't at all and then I worried that because I don't have contamination fears (other than moral/mental) that people who know me would watch and think 'she's lying - she doesn't have OCD as she's not like that!' Did anybody else think that?

Aside from intrusive thoughts, there are so many facets of OCD which remain untouched by the media - hyper responsibility, moral/religious, checking. Why???

Maybe we should write to them!

[Guest Zee]

Felt it was interesting to watch but as many have said there was hardly any mention of intrusive thoughts ocd - felt it just reinforced the stereotype that everybody with ocd washed their hands many times a day.

Shame

[jennielouises]

I really enjoyed it and just love Jon Richardson even more now. As Claire1704 says, the look on Russell Howards face when Jon said he slept in the car was powerful. For him to realise that their 'joking' around with the spoons and the mess actually made Jon feel that way was quite significant. I watched this with my hubby to be who has never quite grasped OCD. He still asks me why I can't just stop what I am doing and just not worry. As if it were that simple! I have lived with severe OCD for 11 years now so if I could just stop I would!!

My OCD is stereotypical in that it is mainly contimation (with a little bit of checking) but I can see what people mean about the intrusive thoughts not being covered. I nearly cried when the lady was talking about her son killing himself because of OCD (I'm not really a crying type so that is saying a lot). I have been at what I thought was the bottom with my OCD but I never got so low that I would have killed myself. It sadens me to know that there are people out there who feel they just can't carry on.

I'm not going to watch the hoarding one though, that just looks distressing.

Also, I actually had to turn away when the woman was stroking the toilet and then rubbed it all over herself. I asked my fiance if he would do that and even him, a non sufferer, said he wouldn't. That was just WRONG!!!

Edited July 26, 2012 by jennielouises

[Guest saltwaterb]

While I enjoyed the program and I am a fan of Job Richardson, I do think they should at least have given some brief mention of intrusive thoughts, but they didn't really. Still, it was a good program and I imagine it was eye-opening to how severe and life-destroying the condition can be.

But one thing did concern me. Jon Richardson seemed content to continue living his life the way he was when the test at the end found he only had sub-clinical OCD, but even he acknowledged that in the past his score would probably have been higher. He kept insisting "I don't have the illness, it's my choice". Well... yes, in a sense that may be true, but it is obviously quite seriously affecting his life. After all he refused to even let the camera men into his bedroom, and his behavior while walking, sorting magazines, and complaing about things not being symmetrical shows how seriously it's impacting his life. It will likely limit has ability to have relationships, and the stories of him sleeping in the car were just so sad.

The problem is that I think he could be at risk of getting worse if he's content to continue living his life this way - he didn't seem like he wanted to get better, even though he knew the way he acted was unhealthy.

Regarding touching the toilet then rubbing it on yourself, I would totally do that no problem, but of course my ocd isn't contamination - I can understand the feelings of someone who would find that too disgusting or frightening to do.

[Guest FobicFairy]

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/jon-richardson-a-little-bit-ocd/4od

Recently, Ashley posted a message about how well someone from the ocd forum had done after being an inpatient at Springfield Hospital in London. This OCD documentry includes a visit to the hospital and shows the sort of therapy that needs to be done to recover from contamination OCD.

Joanne, I hope you watch this, what Dr Drummond is doing is the sort of thing you could aim for.

I was on that ward for 6 months and it was nice seeing it on tv, I recognised all the rooms, it was a trip down scary memory lane, it was the hardest but best thing I have ever done having treatment there.

I hope this programme inspires other people on here to face their fears and fight back.

FF

[Guest FobicFairy]

Just watched some more of it, Professor Paul Salkovskis is in it as well, I wonder why no one else has brought up these programmes on the forum? Maybe they have and I missed them! Anyway, the clinics/hospitals featured are the best the NHS has to offer in this country, so it's worth watching the programme.

It just might inspire some of you to take a risk and push your OCD boundaries.

I do hope so.

FF

[joanne123]

I did watch this programme and the part in the clinic where she rubbed her hand on the toilet seat made me feel bad i must admit i feel like if i did that i would think i was going to die. Then jon did it and he seemed a little more anxious but still touched his clothes and carried on but i can`t see myself ever being able to do it as i am struggling to sit on a seat i think is dirty. How do you get to a point where you can think you will be ok doing that i hope i can it makes me want to try but it is so scarey i only have to use a public toilet without sitting on the seat and i think life will end. I admire anyone that can now do that who has had contamination ocd and one day i hope to be able to but i am not sure how my mind will accept it

Joanne xx

[Guest *Lou*]

Hey,

Pros:

- Showed how severe, ultimately life-threatening OCD can be

- Jon Richardson was empathic and non-judgemental in his approach

- The OCD types that were explored are perhaps more socially acceptable at present!

Cons:

- Only touched the surface on intrusive thoughts- should have gone into this more

- Could have discussed the OCD spectrum- even if they didn't interview sufferers with other variants of OCD they could have briefy mentioned them

Lou- I just looked for an animation on 4OD but couldn't find it- what title is it under?

xx

Hi Annabel,

http://4goesmad.channel4.com/MadWorld.html

[Guest FobicFairy]

Hi Joanne,

You have to buld up gradually to do the exposure of touching the loo seat. Some people can't even go into a public loo. I used to think if my clothing tuched the wall it was germy and I would soak the fabric through with Dettol that I carried everywhere with me.

I built up to touching handles quite early on in the therapy, and then taps, but all these things are done a week at a time, and you do the same thing 3 times a day. You very quickly learn that whatever you do that your anxiety falls faster and faster each time you do the therapy, so when you come onto bigger things you already know that the therapy will work and that you will be ok.

It's much easier to do toilet seat touching when you've had several weeks building up to it. If you did the toilet seat touching straight away it would be classed as 'flooding' which could possibly make you worse.

If anyone see the film and are inspired, get a decent CBT therapist to work with you, it's much easier if you have an experienced therapist to guide you, although some people seem to do really well using a book and the support of the forum. You have to do whats best for you.

FF x

[joanne123]

thanks ff i think it just scared me seeing them touch the seat then their clothes but it is good that it is a gradual thing to get to that point or as you say it could be to much to soon. I am glad that there is this help available and it worked for you i hope i can be there one day you have done really well and achieved so much as i know it must have been really hard i think your very brave xx

[Guest PartVie]

But one thing did concern me. Jon Richardson seemed content to continue living his life the way he was when the test at the end found he only had sub-clinical OCD, but even he acknowledged that in the past his score would probably have been higher. He kept insisting "I don't have the illness, it's my choice". Well... yes, in a sense that may be true, but it is obviously quite seriously affecting his life. After all he refused to even let the camera men into his bedroom, and his behavior while walking, sorting magazines, and complaing about things not being symmetrical shows how seriously it's impacting his life. It will likely limit has ability to have relationships, and the stories of him sleeping in the car were just so sad.

The problem is that I think he could be at risk of getting worse if he's content to continue living his life this way - he didn't seem like he wanted to get better, even though he knew the way he acted was unhealthy.

I thought I was the only one thinking this saltwaterb, I too became concerned for Jon after his shall we say 'near diagnosis'. I took issue with him saying that it was his choice because it seemed to me that he was 'choosing' to give into compulsions to reduce his anxiety, rather than just doing them as a lifestyle choice. I would also cite the examples you gave of: not letting anyone in his room, his walking 'habits', straightening things - magazines & newspapers, being uncomfortable with things not being tidy & symmetrical at shows, and of course the obvious one of him resorting to sleeping in the car because he was so uncomfortable in the house. Also, as you said he noted that he previously would have scored higher. Plus he said that living with people made it hard but living alone made it worse (which I'm sure some of us could relate to). I am a jon Richardson fan, and if you've listened to more of his work such as the 'am I normal' segment in his previous radio show, you would see just how deep the rabbit hole goes. I think his sometimes grumpy persona is just him acting on the stress his obsessions are causing him.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not questioning Dr Paul Salkovskis and his expertise; it's just that I fear Jon may have not been entirely honest with himself about how much distress it causes him. Jon does seem to get agitated easily and perhaps he doesn't recognise this as being distressed. Also maybe the fear of being diagnosed with OCD caused him to down play his symptoms in his mind. I know before I was diagnosed I thought I was perhaps a mild case, if that at all; turns out I have a severe case. I think we often tend to underestimate our symptoms and think we're doing alright, when actually we aren't.

Maybe being a Jon Richardson fan plays a part in me being concerned for him. I just don't want to see him avoiding a possible diagnosis by or underating his symptoms/distress or out of a fear of being labelled with the condition (and what that would then mean for him personally). Of course I don't know him and these are only based on my observations of the life he has shared with the public. I don't wish to have an overdiagnosis of OCD but I just worry that Jon may continue to struggle and live in denial when he could get some help. If he sought help for anxiety at least, I think it would be a positive thing for him.

Edited July 27, 2012 by PartVie

[Guest FobicFairy]

I felt concerned about him as well, I can't help but wonder if he wasn't quite honest with himself when filling in the questionaires, I think he has OCD bad enough to warrant CBT. If you can't let anyone in your bedroom then you have a big problem.

I am also a fan of his and think he did a good job presenting the programme. Lets hope he see's sense and gets some help. Perhaps he didnt want to admit on screen how bad his OCD is. At least now he has the information needed to get help if he wants to go down that route.

He is such a poppet, I feel very motherly towards him, ha ha.

FF x

[Guest sarah1984]

Hi FF,

Just out of interest, can I ask whether other types of OCD are treated at the Springfield Centre? The programme gave the impression that it was purely for contamination sufferers.

Sarah

[Guest FobicFairy]

Hi Sarah,

They treat all types of OCD and also related conditions such as BDD. Springfield is pretty much at the forefront of OCD treatments, other specialist centres are the Maudsley and Bethlem, but they are out patient hospitals.

Three other patients that were at Springfield when I was all had contamination OCD, but the things we worried about were very different. There was a person with BDD. A person who just couldnt sit still and had to have everything perfect and things like paint being chipped off a wall would really mess with their head.

There was a guy who had violent thoughts about stabbing family and friends who towards the end of his treatment would stand in the hallway waving a kitchen knife around his head. A younger lad who had to do very long winded and complicated sets of mental rituals to prevent anything bad happening to his neice.

There was a women who had to do complicated rituals such as spitting, banging her coffee mug on things, unable to flush the toilet and having to do complicated foot steps in patterns so she felt that things were alright!

Sprinfield is set up to treat people with multiple conditions which perhaps are too difficult to treat in the community.

I didnt really notice that the programme gave the impression that only germ issues were dealt with at Springfield but thats because I know what goes on there anyway. I suppose they film a lot more than we see, but there is only so much that can fit into one programme and a lot ends up on the cutting room floor.

Shame.

FF x

[Ashley]

They treat all types of OCD and also related conditions such as BDD. Springfield is pretty much at the forefront of OCD treatments, other specialist centres are the Maudsley and Bethlem, but they are out patient hospitals.

Bethlem (ADRU) is residential rather than outpatient, so a cross between inpatient and outpatient in that patients stay there Monday to Friday, but return home at weekends.

[Ashley]

I took issue with him saying that it was his choice because it seemed to me that he was 'choosing' to give into compulsions to reduce his anxiety, rather than just doing them as a lifestyle choice.

Certainly made me think too. To be honest Paul had told me last week that during his assessment Jon had not got OCD (which would be shown on TV, so he was not telling me anything untoward), but I was surprised when watching the programme at how much it appeared to be OCD. the fact he came out of the Springfield with his arms held out in front of him away from his body really struck a chord with me.

[Guest PartVie]

the fact he came out of the Springfield with his arms held out in front of him away from his body really struck a chord with me.

Oh yeah, I noticed that too, he looked very awkward/uncomfortable didn't he. Then I went on to wonder if he'd kept his hands dirty and touched his car with them. I like to pretend that he washed (either his hands before driving or the car after contact with his hands), he he.

Edited July 27, 2012 by PartVie

[Ashley]

I like to pretend that he washed (either his hands before driving or the car after contact with his hands), he he.

Nooooo, you have to think he kept them dirty, means he does not have OCD

[Guest PartVie]

Lol. Well I do think thats what he actually did. However, doesn't mean he doesn't have OCD, just means he doesn't have severe contamination OCD. Plus, I'm just thinking that to keep my OCD happy, lol.

Edited July 27, 2012 by PartVie

[Guest Elle Belle]

Yes, or he was doing that hands thing for the camera? When they showed footage at the start of him saying 'it's not OCD, it's just the right way of doing things' I thought at that point it sounded like he had Obsessive Compulsive Personality Disorder and nearly switched off. Glad I didn't!

I wondered about the 'choice' thing. I didn't think it sent out a very helpful message. You could argue that all compulsions are a choice. Taking the decision not to perform them is not an easy choice - in fact it's often torturous. However, I thought that him saying 'it's my choice, therefore I don't have a big problem' could encourage others to say the same.

Can somebody explain to me if OCD is obsession or compulsion driven? Or does it vary from person to person? Jon didn't detail that he had any obsessions - not to say he doesn't, and perhaps he didn't want to admit to them, but would he recognise them as such?

To digress slightly, I had compulsions before I had (or at least realised I had) obsessions.From the age of 5 I had to balance out sensations and even out how my feet stood on bits of the pavement, like Jon... but that was about it. (I had others which were obsession driven such as unplugging everything to avoid fire and not touching the microwave to avoid radioactive poisoning.) However, that symmetery compulsion was never related to an obsession. I did not have a fear that something would happen if I didn't do it. My mum's friend once asked me 'what are you afraid will happen if you don't do that?' and I said, honestly and incredulously, 'nothing'. Jon seemed similarly surprised by the thought that a compulsion could be linked to a certain fear.

Can Obsessive Compulsive Disorder exist or be diagnosed without obsessions?

[Guest Icicle]

Oh yeah, I noticed that too, he looked very awkward/uncomfortable didn't he.

Plus he sought reassurance saying "I'm not going to die am I. Am I going to die? Get Lynn to tell me I'm not going to die", I know he said it jokingly but I thought it was in the reassurance seeking vein all the same. The fact he said at the end he 'chooses' to do them to relieve his anxiety says it all for me because that's what all us ocd sufferers do - we physically could stop, but we 'choose' to carry on because it relieves the anxiety.

[Guest Elle Belle]

The fact he said at the end he 'chooses' to do them to relieve his anxiety says it all for me because that's what all us ocd sufferers do - we physically could stop, but we 'choose' to carry on because it relieves the anxiety.

Exactly! Better put than I wrote it.

[Guest PartVie]

Plus he sought reassurance saying "I'm not going to die am I. Am I going to die? Get Lynn to tell me I'm not going to die", I know he said it jokingly but I thought it was in the reassurance seeking vein all the same. The fact he said at the end he 'chooses' to do them to relieve his anxiety says it all for me because that's what all us ocd sufferers do - we physically could stop, but we 'choose' to carry on because it relieves the anxiety.

Yeah, true. Well said. I was worried that people would think I was trying to make him fit into the OCD box/ trying to make him 'one of us' or something and tell me to shut it. So I wasn't gonna say anything at first but at least now I know that other people have their suspicions too.

[Guest PartVie]

Oh and I agree with a lot of what has already been said...

It was good in that it showed the seriousness of the condition and that it pointed out that most people have some obsessive behaviour but that it isnt OCD unless it is distressing and impacts on your life. I'm also glad to see it did show that there is treatment available, it could have gone into this a little more/shown some people who have recovered though.

However, even as someone with mostly contamination problems, I did feel it featured too heavily on this. I would have like to have seen some stuff on magical thinking, intrusive thoughts, harm OCD, relationship OCD etc. Basically it would've been ideal if some people could have been shown with those types, but if not, at least a quick explanation that they exist would've been nice. Also, I would've liked to see them discuss the difference between OCD and OCPD, even just briefly.

Overall now; Jon did a great job presenting it, especially when he was angry at OCD and how clearly moved he was by the mother's story of her son. He dealt with it sensitively and respectfully, even managing to upset the usually jovial Russell Howard when he spoke about sleeping in the car. I felt that the documentary definitely showed people that OCD is no laughing matter but more work needs to be done to show what a variety of symptoms/types of OCD someone can present with.

Edited July 28, 2012 by PartVie