Are these classed as intrusive thoughts?

[Guest ocdlfc]

I've been suffering from pure obsessional thoughts and anxiety for the past 5 months. Basically I constantly worry about having severe mental disorders such as schizophrenia or dissociative identity disorder. Lately I've developed intrusive thoughts and I'm confused if they are classed as voices or intrusive thoughts. These thoughts are in my own internal voice, the voice I use to read and think etc. however these thoughts constantly go against my views and morals and can cause me great distress. For example when bad things occur horrible things like "they deserved it " pop into my head which I don't mean at all. Sometimes contradictory thoughts enter my head, eg. When I don't want to do something because I class it as morally wrong my own voice says, "you know you want to". I really don't understand why I'm doing this. Are these OCD intrusive thoughts or are they something more sinister? Thanks

[Guest Hockey30]

Hi ocdlfc,

What you have described is pretty much intrusive thoughts in a nutshell. Fear of being Schizophrenic is also a very common theme in OCD. I have had this underlying fear for a couple of months. All I would put it down to is the fact you are now very much aware of the inner chatter that is going on in your mind, whilst before it was just background noise. The OCD has caused you to turn up the volume on the thoughts. As you said that the voice is your voice I would think that this is just OCD at play, although if you are really worried I would suggest going to see your local GP.

Hope this helps!

[Guest ocdlfc]

Okay so do you actually hear them as how you would HEAR them when people talk, this probably is INTRUSIVE THOUGHTS and you are now starting to pick up this sense of hearing things in your head but really it could just be these thoughts just going over everything in your head. Schizophrenia is a imbalance of something in the brain, and when I was in hospital they was a very ill boy and one of the staff said it normally is always there but just develops at some stage of life but I would just say for now these are probably just intrusive thoughts but I am no medical professional so I can't diagnose you.

TheZone! :-)

Happy New Year!

No, They're not audible, they're not like hearing people talk. It's like an inner voice

[Guest ocdlfc]

Hi ocdlfc,

What you have described is pretty much intrusive thoughts in a nutshell. Fear of being Schizophrenic is also a very common theme in OCD. I have had this underlying fear for a couple of months. All I would put it down to is the fact you are now very much aware of the inner chatter that is going on in your mind, whilst before it was just background noise. The OCD has caused you to turn up the volume on the thoughts. As you said that the voice is your voice I would think that this is just OCD at play, although if you are really worried I would suggest going to see your local GP.

Hope this helps!

Thanks, what I don't understand is, how does my mind produce such horrible thoughts even though I disagree with them completely and think they're wrong?

[Guest sarah1984]

The reason your mind produces these thoughts is because everyone experiences distressing intrusive thoughts, regardless of whether they suffer from OCD or not. Here's a list of common intrusive thoughts experienced both by OCD sufferers and non-sufferers:

1. Urge to hurt or harm someone
2. Urge to say something cruel to someone
3. Thoughts of harm to, or death of, close friend or family member
4. Thoughts of acts of violence during sex
5. Urge to deliberately crash car while driving
6. Urge to act cruelly towards animals
7. Wishing someone were dead
8. Worrying whether you have committed a particular crime when you read reports in the papers/watch the news
9. Worries that you might be going crazy
10. Thoughts of engaging in inappropriate sexual acts e.g. rape or paedophilia
11. Urge to jump in front of a train/push someone under a train
12. Urge to be rude and abusive
13. Urge to violently attack a loved one
14. Urge to curse God or shout out something blasphemous during a religious ceremony

The difference between the OCD sufferer and the non-sufferer is the signficance they place upon the thoughts. While the non-sufferer finds the thoughts distressing, they can see they are ultimately irrational and they can brush them off relatively easily. In contrast the OCD sufferer finds it difficult to dismiss these thoughts for one or all of the following reasons:

• They believe the intrusive thoughts say something about them as a person - that they are mad, bad or dangerous
• They believe that having the thoughts increases the likelihood that they will come true
• They believe that the thoughts must be significant simply because they occurred in the first place
• They believe that having a thought is as bad as acting upon it - in reality, the 'goodness' or 'badness' of a thought is dependent upon the thinker's willingness to act upon it. Although many OCD sufferers worry that they are capable of acting upon their thoughts, in reality it's the last thing they want to do. As of yet, psychologists have never come across a case where an OCD sufferer has acted on their intrusive thoughts.

Most OCD sufferers desperately want to understand why they have such distressing thoughts. There is a pattern: loving parents experience intrusive thoughts about harming or abusing their kids; gentle people are troubled by thoughts of violence and religious people by blasphemous thoughts. Sufferers are persecuted by overwhelming feelings of guilt. In contrast genuine psychopaths thrive on thoughts of violence and paedophiles get a kick out of thoughts about abusing kids - they certainly don't feel guilty for having these thoughts! Intrusive thoughts always prey on a person's worst fears. Psychologists call these thoughts 'ego-dystonic' which means that the thoughts are inconsistent with a person's values, beliefs and character.

When someone first experiences intrusive thoughts, it's natural to want to get rid of them asap. Unfortunately, the more you fight the thoughts the more persistent they become. There's also a scientific explanation for this. When you are afraid to have a specific thought again your body moves into defence mode and starts to produce adrenaline. This causes your muscles to tense, your heart rate and breathing to increase and your thoughts start to race. And what thoughts come to mind? How not to have that particular thought again! When you are scared of your intrusive thoughts and you deliberately seek to prevent their reoccurrence, your body's response actually brings the thoughts to mind.

Here's a list of the ways in which your thoughts and behaviour can encourage an obsession to return:

• If you are afraid of your obsessions
• If you actively fight back against them
• If you deliberately seek to avoid situations that might remind you of them
• If you set yourself a goal of 'never ever' having a thought again
• If you worry about the next time you might have an obsession

A well-known example of the difficulties of thought control is the 'white bear story'. Try as hard as you can not to think of a white polar bear. Do not think about its furry white coat, its shiny black nose and the cute cubs snuggling up to their mum. What happened? I bet you couldn't stop thinking about that polar bear! If it's so difficult to block thoughts about neutral topics such as polar bears you can see how difficult it is to suppress thoughts that cause us distress.

As well as trying to stop their thoughts, sufferers can spend hours ruminating in attempts to reassure themselves that what they fear couldn't possibly happen. Just like thought control, reassurance seeking doesn't work. It may provide a temporary relief from anxiety but sooner or later the mind will find a flaw in the reassuring argument and a nasty voice pops up that says "Ah, but what if....?" For every reassuring argument you can come up with, there will always be an accompanying "What if?" thought.

So if thought suppression and reassurance seeking doesn't work, what does? The most successful strategy is to accept the presence of the intrusive thoughts and to let them be without trying to push them away or engage with them at all. Obviously this is much easier said than done! The best way to learn to do this is via a course of cognitive behavioural therapy (CBT). To learn about CBT and how it is used to treat OCD visit the following page: http://www.ocduk.org...vioural-therapy. The therapist will teach you exposure response prevention techniques (ERP). ERP involves confronting your intrusive thoughts head on (exposure) while resisting the urge to use your usual compulsions to reduce your anxiety (response prevention). The idea behind ERP is that through repeated exposure to distressing thoughts, something called 'habituation' happens. This means that the sufferer's tolerance for the thoughts increases with each exposure and they cause less and less of a fearful reaction. Eventually, through repeated exposure, the thoughts cause little to no anxiety and they don't interfere with the sufferer's life.

The two important things to remember about intrusive thoughts are:

1. It's not the thoughts that are the problem but the way in which you respond to them.
2. You may not be able to control the presence of the thoughts but you can change the way in which you respond to them.

I'd strongly recommend speaking to your GP about the possibility of a referral for CBT. Here's a list of books and articles that I found particularly useful when developing strategies to deal with my intrusive thoughts:

1. OCD and Thought Suppression: http://www.ocdla.com...-1249#more-1249

2. Reassurance seeking in OCD: http://www.ocdla.com...ty-597#more-597

3. 'Thinking the Unthinkable' http://www.ocdonline...phillipson1.php and 'Rethinking the Unthinkable' http://www.ocdonline...unthinkable.php. I'd also recommend having a look at some of Steve Phillipson's other articles: http://www.ocdonline...sphillipson.php

4. 'Treating Morbid Obsessions' http://www.wsps.info...l-phd&Itemid=64

5. Break Free from OCD: Overcoming Obsessive Compulsive Disorder with CBT by Dr Fiona Challacombe, Dr Victoria Bream Oldfield and Prof Paul Salkovskis: http://www.ocdshop.c...products_id=163

6. Overcoming Obsessive Thoughts: How to Gain Control of Your OCD by David Clark and Christine Purdon: http://www.ocdshop.c...21271fdeb80e408

7. The Imp of the Mind: Exploring the Silent Epidemic of Bad Thoughts by Lee Baer: http://www.ocdshop.c...products_id=100

Hope you find this helpful

Sarah