"Pure O" sufferer talks about paedophilia and homosexuality obsessions in today's Guardian

[Guest Tricia]

Not wishing to make this more controversial, but some specialists actually believe different symptoms might have different causes and may eventually be classified as separate conditions. I'm not so sure I agree with that, as my OCD has drifted through almost every symptom and I have friends who have experienced the same.

[Guest yinyang]

Not controversial really, but when people say they have pure o . they tend to think that all of the compulsions are mental, where in fact

they have outward ones, as an eg reassurance seeking, checking, googling, avoidance of fears

So yes it is "different" to handwashers/checkers in that sense, totally agree

You are right in saying we do have kind of outward compulsions also, which are often less obvious. Although I wouldn't class them as physical. I would argue that googling etc.. Is a mental compulsion? Other than physically typing on the keyboard the rest is all in the mind. That's how I see it anyway

[Guest yinyang]

Not wishing to make this more controversial, but some specialists actually believe different symptoms might have different causes and may eventually be classified as separate conditions. I'm not so sure I agree with that, as my OCD has drifted through almost every symptom and I have friends who have experienced the same.

Oh dear that's thrown a spanner in the works! :lol:

[felix4]

Oh dear that's thrown a spanner in the works! :lol:

Even more controversial, I am wondering if some wrongly diagnose GAD as pure O?

Having had multi themed OCD since 2005, & only a diagnoses of anxiety prior to this, I can actually see differences in the 2. I guess the treatment is basically going to be the same, but I think OCD seems to be possibly including lots of other illnesses that have their own classifications already?

Edited September 2, 2013 by felix4

[Guest legend]

You are right in saying we do have kind of outward compulsions also, which are often less obvious. Although I wouldn't class them as physical. I would argue that googling etc.. Is a mental compulsion? Other than physically typing on the keyboard the rest is all in the mind. That's how I see it anyway

if it were mental, it would therefore be internal. So what you are doing is carrying out an outward compulsion, by typing, which is a form of checking.

As would be asking for reassurance and avoiding fears and triggers.

Mental rumination, is internal compulsions.

this link from ocduk homepage gives good info. in regards to pure o . http://www.ocduk.org/pure-o

Edited September 2, 2013 by legend

[Guest yinyang]

Hmmm.. I'm not convinced with the typing. As its not the typing itself that is the compulsion it's the reassurance of finding the information you want to make you feel better. Which I would class as mental, in my opinion.

I have read that "pure o" information on this site before but thanks for the link. Maybe I perceive my illness in a different way or maybe I'm special

[Guest Elle Belle]

My OCD is a shape shifter. It has its 'pure' elements but I also have physical compulsions, such as checking and symmetry.

[Guest yinyang]

Even more controversial, I am wondering if some wrongly diagnose GAD as pure O

True actually as GAD could be considered very similar with the intrusive thoughts

Having had multi themed OCD since 2005, & only a diagnoses of anxiety prior to this, I can actually see differences in the 2. I guess the treatment is basically going to be the same, but I think OCD seems to be possibly including lots of other illnesses that have their own classifications already?

That's not a spanner that's the whole tool box!

[Guest yinyang]

My OCD is a shape shifter. It has its 'pure' elements but I also have physical compulsions, such as checking and symmetry.

Same here I think I have both personally. As my "pure o harm theme" isn't related to my "OCD theme" with physical compulsions eg, checking. It's getting complicated now..

Edited September 2, 2013 by yinyang

[Guest legend]

Hmmm.. I'm not convinced with the typing. As its not the typing itself that is the compulsion it's the reassurance of finding the information you want to make you feel better. Which I would class as mental, in my opinion.

I have read that "pure o" information on this site before but thanks for the link. Maybe I perceive my illness in a different way or maybe I'm special

What you've done is recognise it as a compulsion.. . reassurance seeking/checking

OCD

Edited September 2, 2013 by legend

[Guest yinyang]

What you've done is recognise it as a compulsion.. . reassurance seeking/checking

OCD

Nope I think my head has :blowup: Your going to have to explain it to me

[Guest legend]

see an eg of confusion of when you try to differentiate between pure o and ocd.

you had a thoughts that cause anxiety etc, so to try and look for certainty, and or rid oneself of it,(anxiety) you then get an urge to google. because

you've given the thoughts importance

Did you need to google ? what made you google ?

[Guest yinyang]

see an eg of confusion of when you try to differentiate between pure o and ocd.

you had a thoughts that cause anxiety etc, so to try and look for certainty, and or rid oneself of it,(anxiety) you then get an urge to google. because

you've given the thoughts importance

Did you need to google ? what made you google ?

Yep I get that but I don't agree that it is a physical compulsion. Which in my eyes differentiates OCD and Pure O

[Guest legend]

Yep I get that but I don't agree that it is a physical compulsion. Which in my eyes differentiates OCD and Pure O

ocd is ocd. treated the same with cbt and erp.

it may have differentuals in regards to its flavours and compulsions., but it is ocd., regardless of mental, ruminations, googling, reassurance seeking, washing

checking, avoidance, touching things in a certain way.

would you say checking a door that's its checked is a physical compulsion ? to get that just right feeling ?

is googling for symptoms a compulsion, and outward one, checking ? do you do it once or do you keep doing it to look for certainty?

what other compulsions do you have, apart from googling?

mine were . checking. googling. reassurance seeking. drinking alcohol. avoidance. drinking water to try and cleanse my self of it, rumination

all from the same thought

Edited September 2, 2013 by legend

[whitebeam]

I think the constant rumination aspect of OCD is one of the more difficult compulsions to deal with. This is a compulsion that can last 24/7 or at least through waking hours. Before I knew I had OCD, I had terrible anxieties which I tried to deal with by ruminating. i remember the times where ruminations were bad as some of the worst in my life.

[Guest ADD]

Even more controversial, I am wondering if some wrongly diagnose GAD as pure O?

It is very similair. Though I think the only distinction and difference with GAD is that the fears are never that far off from reality of what could happen. They are about the real life risks of everyday dangers and are simply excessively nervous or pessimistic. They are the same though as far as the anxiety and the intolerance to the uncertainty. Though there's no magical thinking with GAD. It always has a realistic possible nexus between the risks and the fears.

Before I had OCD, I had GAD and my fears were really different with it. I didn't get any intrusive thoughts or images. I only got anxiety and worries and strong intolerances to not knowing and needing reassurance of safety.

My fears were things like when my fiancé would leave and fly somewhere I couldn't relax until I knew his plane landed safely and the entire time I'd have the flight website up that showed the image of the plane and where it was and then would show it landed.

Then other times like when he'd be gone driving and there was a bad storm and flooding and lots of warnings on the radio, I'd be freaking out that he was so late and I his phone was off and I couldn't reach him. Since I couldn't figure out why he'd not call or would be taking so long, I'd assume he was hurt or dead and couldn't relax, already grieving his death. Not able to relax or have patience to know the answer or take my mind off it until I knew.

And whenever we'd take our dog places and tie him up outside a store, I'd fear that someone would steal him so I couldn't relax and would have to keep looking out and checking that he was still there.

All kinds of things that could happen, though rarely do. Though with my OCD it was almost always more irrational, magical thinking with compulsions that have no nexus to the fears.

Strangely after developing OCD, my GAD went away. I guess the magical thinking type of stuff and compulsions are an alternative type of coping mechanism to deal with anxiety and uncertainties in life.

No matter what type of anxiety disorder or compulsions, it's all the same that there is some perceived 'threat' and then there are reactions that believe the threat is a real danger and then maladaptive coping mechanisms to deal with the anxiety or trying to escape or prevent it.

As far pure o is concerned, the only true mental compulsion is silent rumination and thought compulsions. Rumination is far more difficult to stop than physical compulsions cause it's all just thoughts. If you have a compulsion to wash your hands, you have to get up, go to the sink and do it. And you have to actually have nearby access to a sink with water and soap to perform that compulsion. So if you're driving you can't perform that compulsion. If you physically limit your access to do it by getting rid of all your soap, you can't do it. A lot like drinking, if you stay away from bars and liquor stores you can't drink. Though a thought compulsion, weather it's a rumination or counting silently in your mind or something, that is only a millisecond away and you always have access to it. And not only that, though since it's such an automatic habit, you'll find yourself doing it automatically in response to stimuli or intrusive thoughts and even if you manage to get yourself to stop, it'll often start up again before you're even aware of it. Much like trying to concentrate and then realizing your mind wandered off again. And cause the intrusive thoughts are also thoughts and you're supposed to allow those, while resisting and trying to stop the compulsive reactive thoughts to the intrusions, it becomes a tangled mess. Which ones are the intrusive thoughts and which ones are the compulsive reactions? They seem to happen together and go around in a circle and entangle together. I suppose trying to push intrusive thoughts away is a compulsion and other mental intuitive and instinctive reactions to them.

Edited September 3, 2013 by ADD

[Guest yinyang]

what other compulsions do you have, apart from googling?

mine were . checking. googling. reassurance seeking. drinking alcohol. avoidance. drinking water to try and cleanse my self of it, rumination

all from the same thought

How dare you suggest I Google!

Yep all of the above and more. Seems to be a grey area here and major flaw in my fiendish master plan to prove "pure o's" existence.

Next on the list.. Santa Claus..

[Guest yinyang]

Though a thought compulsion, weather it's a rumination or counting silently in your mind or something, that is only a millisecond away and you always have access to it. And not only that, though since it's such an automatic habit, you'll find yourself doing it automatically in response to stimuli or intrusive thoughts and even if you manage to get yourself to stop, it'll often start up again before you're even aware of it. Much like trying to concentrate and then realizing your mind wandered off again. And cause the intrusive thoughts are also thoughts and you're supposed to allow those, while resisting and trying to stop the compulsive reactive thoughts to the intrusions, it becomes a tangled mess. Which ones are the intrusive thoughts and which ones are the compulsive reactions? They seem to happen together and go around in a circle and entangle together

Wow, you just put into words exactly how I feel better than I ever could.

I have come to realise now that I probably do have outward compulsions as well as mental ones. I don't believe that my outward ones are as frequent as the constant phrases in my head etc.. But it does question whether "pure o" really does exist or if it even matters

[Guest legend]

Also I might add, is that people who suffer from contam/checking forms of ocd, ruminate and carry out other types of compulsions, other

than washing and checking.

In regards to santa claus. ying. in theory , at a young age , it can become a part of magical thinking , when the parents say "if your not a good boy

then santa wont come !! " REALLY !! lol

legend

[Guest yinyang]

In regards to santa claus. ying. in theory , at a young age , it can become a part of magical thinking , when the parents say "if your not a good boy

then santa wont come !! " REALLY !! lol

legend

Don't start that one!

I think we could both agree that "PO" or not. There does seem to be a group of sufferers which are much more internal and subtle with any outward compulsions.

Now whether that needs a label or not I'm not sure but the 100% "PO" theory does seem to be flawed

[Guest legend]

Don't start that one!

I think we could both agree that "PO" or not. There does seem to be a group of sufferers which are much more internal and subtle with any outward compulsions.

Now whether that needs a label or not I'm not sure but the 100% "PO" theory does seem to be flawed

Most defintly ying, and I recall from a conference I attended that (don't quote me lol ) this type of ocd can be more difficult to treat . In the sense that

like you said, the compulsions are subtle, and internal

However, since then, more knowledge about ocd is available, and a good therapist would help to unlock it all with the person.

Enjoyed discussing this. thanks for your time and responses ying

legend

[Guest yinyang]

Likewise, I do enjoy stretching my last few brain cells to their full capacity from time to time :blowup:

[Guest ADD]

Also I might add, is that people who suffer from contam/checking forms of ocd, ruminate and carry out other types of compulsions, other

than washing and checking.

Of course. Pretty much all themes have a wide variance of compulsions as almost anything can become a compulsion if it's used as a coping mechanism in an unhealthy way to escape what they can't tolerate. Including things like video games, sleeping, eating etc.

Though the physical compulsions are much more straight forward to stop and to know that you did them or not.

I used to wash my hands 60+x a day and I couldn't stop. Though then my life changed and I moved and I was always out, never home. Always somewhere else or driving around or something, so I didn't have access to wash my hands much. So instantly it went down to only like 5 to 10x a day. As long as I wasn't near a sink I was ok going without it and wasn't going to go out of my way for it. Since I had gotten it down to such a normal level and was fine with it, I thought I was over it. Then I moved again and was home all the time again and it then started back up in excess frequency again cause of ease of access. Now it's back to normal again cause I'm always at Uni all day.

[Guest legend]

Of course. Pretty much all themes have a wide variance of compulsions as almost anything can become a compulsion if it's used as a coping mechanism in an unhealthy way to escape what they can't tolerate. Including things like video games, sleeping, eating etc.

Though the physical compulsions are much more straight forward to stop and to know that you did them or not.

I used to wash my hands 60+x a day and I couldn't stop. Though then my life changed and I moved and I was always out, never home. Always somewhere else or driving around or something, so I didn't have access to wash my hands much. So instantly it went down to only like 5 to 10x a day. As long as I wasn't near a sink I was ok going without it and wasn't going to go out of my way for it. Since I had gotten it down to such a normal level and was fine with it, I thought I was over it. Then I moved again and was home all the time again and it then started back up in excess frequency again cause of ease of access. Now it's back to normal again cause I'm always at Uni all day.

Yes, but what one has seen is that sufferers then take a handwash bottle with them, so if they don't have access to sinks, they use this instead

NOT that I am suggesting it to you x

[Guest ADD]

A hand wash bottle, lol. Hand sanitizer wipes are much easier and more convienant.

Reminds me of the first therapist I saw. She asked me if I used hand sanitizers and I said no. So she said, " that's great, don't start." Though then when she said that I thought to myself, "hmm, that's a good idea". Then I went out and bought some on my way home from the session. Lol!

Though I don't use those much now either. Only before eating finger food or to clean something like my headphones.

Edited September 3, 2013 by ADD