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Guest Tricia

Ouija board as therapy.

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I just wanted to add that I am sure Tricia's persistence stems from an anxiety to prevent harm coming to anyone. I'm not sure if that has been recognised?

I'm sure everyone recognises that, without fear the problem wouldn't exist.

But Tricia has made a decision based on her beliefs/evidence and beyond that we simply have a debate on Ouija Boards.......even the discussion as to whether therapists should suggest it as an exposure cannot be resolved either because again, that will differ based on an individuals belief and on the beliefs of the therapist suggesting it (or against it). We will not arrive at a point of accord no matter how long it's discussed.

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Sorry, I don't think I explained myself very well. I do completely agree that further discussion of the topic would not be helpful to anyone. I was just wondering if it would be helpful to address the hyperresponsibility element and ease the burden of responsibility that Tricia carries. Does that make any sense?

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I'm perplexed by what appears to be a British aversion to people disagreeing with each other.

In any event, I focused on the concept of choice because I believe it lies at the center of the problem people have with OCD. Belief is a choice. It is not inherent. There are people out there (and I am among them) who choose not to believe the hype surrounding Ouija boards. If I can choose to not believe the hype then other people must choose to believe it. It only makes sense. I too have heard stories about weird goings on with Ouija boards, yet I still choose not to believe there is anything sinister going on.

This then leads to OCD. There are those who would champion the belief that performing compulsions is not a choice but some sort of inherent, automatic thing that is completely beyond the control of the sufferer. I do not buy into that belief. I believe that performing compulsions is a choice, because people can choose not to perform compulsions.

We had a young woman on the forum recently who had the belief that if she did not perform compulsions, bad things would happen to people she knew/loved. In fact she knew of several instances where she did not perform a compulsion and consequently someone she knew got sick. In my mind, she chose to believe that her not performing compulsions was tied to people getting sick. It was a choice. She could also choose to not believe that she or her OCD had any power over the well being of others. And therein lies the problem. OCD can convince you of things that are not true, yet to get better you have to challenge your OCD by making different and better choices. You can't overcome OCD by making the same old choices.

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I'm perplexed by what appears to be a British aversion to people disagreeing with each other.

An American lady where I work says the same thing :)

I like a good debate as much as anyone (in fact probably more so!) but I think the difference here is that it has strayed into a debate regarding belief in Ouija boards or not - there's not a lot to debate as you either believe or you don't believe. Personally I agree with you, Polarbear, and do not buy into the idea of Ouija boards or anything supernatural - but plenty do and their opinion is as valid as mine. This debate has now spanned over 14 pages and nobody has budged on either side - nor is it about OCD anymore on the whole, so not really serving the purposes of this forum or helping anyone. There are other forums where people can and do discuss such topics for hours.

Just my twopenny worth.

Edited by gingerbreadgirl

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Guest Tricia

I'm perplexed by what appears to be a British aversion to people disagreeing with each other.

Well, PB, you and I disagree on so much, but I am totally with you over your sentence above! Mind you, if you were to visit our Houses of Parliament you'd find plenty of disagreement 'happily' occurring!

I have been quite surprised by the reaction of some on this thread. I'm not referring to anything you've said or to others for disagreeing with me, but to those who seem upset by any form of disagreement.

Once again I differ with you over the young woman you mentioned. If she was terrified that her lack of any compulsions caused harm to others, I really don't think it was a conscious choice! Some things we don't choose - love, fear, guilt, shame etc...

As to the subject of this thread. I feel GBG is right, and clearly you and I will never agree on the issue. I will say this, though, had I not experienced what I have, I'd be agreeing with you, GBG, David Veale and others.

The thread has probably been exhausted and I'm happy to leave it now. I do just have two people to respond to who asked questions yesterday.

Edited by Tricia

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Guest Tricia

Everyone can believe what they want, but let me ask you (people who believe in the powers of Ouija board) this: do you believe that a piece of paper with alphabet written on it can serve as an Ouija? Going further, do you believe that anything with letters written on it, for example a book, can serve as an Ouija? If yes, then how do you manage to live with that? I'm asking because I started to believe that at one point in my life. You could say I had a fear of letters, however absurd it may sound. If you don't believe it, then how is Ouija board different than the things I mentioned? What makes it so special?

Yes, I believe pieces of paper with letters on could have the same effect, but it depends entirely upon one's intentions. Letters are harmless, it's only if you deliberately try to conjure up spirits and use the letters as you would the Ouija. My mother and her army friends did this during the war. The Ouija board is not special, it's what you do with it.

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Guest Tricia

so what does lee baer suggest for cbt in religous type ocd ?

He often refers his patients to one of his therapist colleagues who is a former Catholic priest. But his general advice is for the person with religious obsessions to consult with a religious leader in their denomination whom they fully trust. He also says it's important for the therapist to talk to this religious leader, as clearly not all are knowledgeable about OCD, and therefore could do more harm than good and reinforce the obsessions.

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Guest Tricia

I just wanted to add that I am sure Tricia's persistence stems from an anxiety to prevent harm coming to anyone. I'm not sure if that has been recognised?

Bless you and Daisy for understanding my intentions here!

I suddenly thought back to when I was 16 and queuing to watch The Exorcist (illegally). There were three priests begging us not to enter the cinema. Not one of us listened to them and I just realized the tables have been turned and I am now behaving rather like the priests. It's a lost cause and I'll give it up! xx

P.S. The Exorcist is also recommended (as therapy) in David Veale's book!

Edited by Tricia

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I was always a skeptic but from what I've seen and from what others I've known have experienced, I would stay well away from that. There are certain things we as humans do not understand and it can be dangerous to mess with that.

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Well, PB, you and I disagree on so much, but I am totally with you over your sentence above! Mind you, if you were to visit our Houses of Parliament you'd find plenty of disagreement 'happily' occurring!

I have been quite surprised by the reaction of some on this thread. I'm not referring to anything you've said or to others for disagreeing with me, but to those who seem upset by any form of disagreement.

Once again I differ with you over the young woman you mentioned. If she was terrified that her lack of any compulsions caused harm to others, I really don't think it was a conscious choice! Some things we don't choose - love, fear, guilt, shame etc...

As to the subject of this thread. I feel GBG is right, and clearly you and I will never agree on the issue. I will say this, though, had I not experienced what I have, I'd be agreeing with you, GBG, David Veale and others.

The thread has probably been exhausted and I'm happy to leave it now. I do just have two people to respond to who asked questions yesterday.

Mark this day on your calendar, folks. Tricia and PB agreed on something. Lol.

As for your comment on the young lady and whether she had a choice or not, thank you. You've given me something to think about.

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Yes, I believe pieces of paper with letters on could have the same effect, but it depends entirely upon one's intentions. Letters are harmless, it's only if you deliberately try to conjure up spirits and use the letters as you would the Ouija. My mother and her army friends did this during the war. The Ouija board is not special, it's what you do with it.

I see. Thanks for answering. I understand what you mean by deliberately trying to conjure up spirits, I believed this myself. Thing is, when you are constantly flooded with thoughts like: "I want to summon a demon which will possess me and make me kill my entire family" or you're afraid of written text, because you fear that when you'll have a certain thought it will act as an Ouija board, you have to make a choice of what you want to believe, as Polar said. I chose not to believe some things and treat them with CBT. In the end they were just like any other compulsions. Even now I had to do a quick CBT, because writing on my keyboard in this topic made me nervous.

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a good vicar/religous leader will work though it with you cbt wise .

cbt works . its ok to have horrid thoughts , whether you are religous or not , and exposures to feared oppositions of religion is ok .

religion and ocd at same time is tough , what works for one , doesnt work for another , but i do know that cbt works if you are prepared to walk it

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a good vicar/religous leader will work though it with you cbt wise .

cbt works . its ok to have horrid thoughts , whether you are religous or not , and exposures to feared oppositions of religion is ok .

religion and ocd at same time is tough , what works for one , doesnt work for another , but i do know that cbt works if you are prepared to walk it

I know it works. I have this theme mostly managed - it sometimes spikes a little (like today), but it's under control. I guess what I meant is that OCD magnified my superstitious beliefs and I include Ouija board among them. It went from: "I don't know, maybe it's true, maybe not" to: "it's completely true, I'm doomed". Then I had CBT and I decided to not believe in certain things anymore. Not only because it suited me, but also because it was the right thing to do considering my "true" beliefs. Ouija board, among others, I consider now as "false" beliefs - existing only because of fear, anxiety and uncertainty. Take these things out, and there's no reason for me to believe them anymore.

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