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Saz

'Innocent people don't confess...'

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It's been done before, Legend can stand testament to the repercussions of that and all it entails. .....and having done that is there tangible evidence, solid proof for them to follow up or are the Police going to have to work with the same shaky evidence, consisting only of your thoughts and what you "fear you might have done"? Are you ready to involve those others (who have been idamaged by your crime) in a Police investigation? Are you ready to out yourself to your friends family etc, to lay yourself bare?

If everyone on this forum (never mind sufferers nationwide) turned themselves in to the Police because of their fears and doubts the force would collapse and an incredible amount of Police time wasted. You are not unique in having this type of severe doubt. Fortunately, eventually, most sufferers seek help and start the necessary, painful work to start and deal with it. I'll be honest Saz, you don't take the advice on board, you don't work with the suggestions....you just carry on with the same compulsions and it stands to reason that nothing changes for you.

So you go to the Police, they find you guilty and you go to jail. The alternative (and likely outcome) is you go to the Police, they investigate and find there's no crime to answer......What then Saz? Do you seriously think that you'll simply go "Phew....that's a relief" and everything will be okay, that you'll suddenly feel fine? You're in complete denial and not taking on responsibility for your own role in improving your situation.

I'm sorry if that seems tough but this is the reality and it needs saying.

totally agree.

The facts are saz. Ocd is beatable if you are prepared to make changes , roll up your sleeves and be prepared for showing some guts and determination

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I know how this feels Saz because I had one too. I've had loads but they were all proven to be untrue quite easily and quickly but then last September I had an utterly horrific one. I felt worthless, like everyone would hate me if they knew and it consumed my every waking moment. The only way I managed to get away from it was by doing what the others have suggested. I'm not going to lie, it wasn't instant, it took weeks for me to accept fully that this was ocd not me but eventually I fully believed and understood. At the time, I think it was Roy or Ginger talking about taking a leap of faith which is pretty much what I had to do because ruminating over it and thinking about all the reasons why it might or might not be true didn't work. And if it was true, it would have been serious, a life changer. 4 months down the line, I can see it for what it was, an evil trick played on me by the bully in my head. But back then, I was utterly terrified. I know that yours has gone on for a lot longer than mine but if you'd read my posts at the time, what advice would you have given me?

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The question is often 'why do innocent people confess to crimes they did not commit?' Thus, innocent people don't confess to crimes they did not do.

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The question is often 'why do innocent people confess to crimes they did not commit?' Thus, innocent people don't confess to crimes they did not do.

Handy. you posed a question, gave no argument to support it and drew a premature conclusion 'thus'... followed by a sentence which was more like the opening statement of a debate than a concluding proof. :confused1:

I'm guessing you weren't top speaker of the debating society then. :laugh:

I have to admit I'm fascinated by how your brain repeatedly tries to twist things and ends up only confusing itself in the process. I've yet to decide if you're trying to be clever and failing, eager to join in the conversation and just looking for things to say (even if it's nonsense), or simply living on a different planet to the rest of us. :alien1:

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At the time, I think it was Roy or Ginger talking about taking a leap of faith which is pretty much what I had to do because ruminating over it and thinking about all the reasons why it might or might not be true didn't work. And if it was true, it would have been serious, a life changer. 4 months down the line, I can see it for what it was, an evil trick played on me by the bully in my head.

Thank you butterflylady for joining the thread and spelling out pure and simply what has to be done; and showing the complete futility of carrying out compulsions.

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Thanks Roy. Terrifying though it was, I think it was only taking that leap of faith that started turn it around. The ocd started to lose its grip and although I kept expecting the knock on the door so to speak, gradually those fears went away. It took a long time to finally be free of it, but now I can see things clearly, I know it wasn't true.

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Handy what do you mean?

You must either mean one of the following. ..

1. People who confess are NOT innocent

Or

2. It's not a real confession because they ARE innocent

Please explain. I know it shouldn't matter because I doubt myself anyway and am feeling so scared about it all now and majorly confused.

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Saz

Focus on what butterfly lady has said - that is of real practical value and if you follow what she did - which has been our suggestion all along - then you can get back on track.

Edited by taurean

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Saz

Focus on what butterfly lady has said - that is of real practical value and if you follow what she did - which has been our suggestion all along - then you can get back on track.

This is good advice, Saz.

Ignore Handy's post. I've nothing against Handy as a person, but his reply to this thread is counterproductive. It poses the exact sort of questioning dilemma that fuels OCD doubts and encourages the ruminating thought processes you need to stop doing to feel better.

Because you're in that mentally tangled place already you jumped on it and asked him to elaborate further - eager for clarity, wanting definite answers to unanswerable questions. This is exactly what you're doing with this other doubt in your head, asking if it's true or false when the only person able to give you an answer (you) is too confused to think straight, let alone decide.

If you involve yourself in further philosophical discussions of this type you're inviting your OCD to escalate.

Get back on track with butterfly lady's advice:

'...taking a leap of faith was pretty much what I had to do because ruminating over it and thinking about all the reasons why it might or might not be true didn't work. '

We know it's hard, but you're dooming yourself to suffer unless you take the leap of faith that this is OCD and stop thinking about possible truth or falsehood.

We know it's scary to take that leap of faith because you're thinking '...but what if that faith is misplaced, what if there's even the smallest, teeniest, tinniest possibility this really is true...'

But that's your choice. Keep digging yourself into an ever deeper hole or take a leap of faith and trust that once you're out of the hole you'll be able to see much more clearly.

Right now your thinking is so tangled you wouldn't recognise the truth if it came up and punched you on the nose. You have to get yourself out of that tangled thinking to come up with the answer you're seeking. You'll never find the answer in the bottom of that big black hole your digging.

Allow for the smallest, teeniest, tinniest possibility that we might be right and take that leap of faith today. :)

Edited by snowbear

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And I have to say, taking the leap of faith was so scary. But I can look back and know that back 4 months ago, my mind was the tangled mess that Snowbear describes. I was almost scared to do it because of the that I'd get the clarity I wanted and realise it was true. But in the end, it was the only way. Hugs Saz, I know how frightened you feel and mine only went on for a relatively short time xxx

Edited by butterfly lady

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Hi Saz. I think a useful exercise for you would be a suggestion made by Caramoole recently.

Imagine your post was made by someone else. What would you say?

No 'yes but' or 'but this is different' or 'I just think' or anything else.

Seriously imagine - that I or Roy or Orwell or someone else had written the exact post you've written above.

What would you say?

NO qualifying statements afterwards!

Please give this a go, Saz. If you are going to try and take on board our advice in any way - can you give this exercise a go?

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Handy what do you mean?

You must either mean one of the following. ..

1. People who confess are NOT innocent

Or

2. It's not a real confession because they ARE innocent

Please explain. I know it shouldn't matter because I doubt myself anyway and am feeling so scared about it all now and majorly confused.

Saz, I read what your topic was then you asked 'what does it mean?' So I did some research on it & posted what that was. I'm not sure what snowbear is commenting on, as anyone can search for the phrase & its possible definitions.

I believe it refers to if someone didn't do the crime or whatever, they don't have anything to confess. But people do confess if they are not guilty, usually to protect someone that they love.

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Thanks everyone and I know you all care deep down.

I feel like I have took the leap of faith and have carried on as normal (or at least tried my best) but I'm no clearer to the answer or at least I don't have a reasonable amount of clarity (I know I will never achieve certainty).

I go through periods where by I feel better with a perhaps a little more clarity some days but then I always end up back to square one.

I feel like this false memory situation needs dealing with in a rational way. I feel like I need someone to sit with me and explain how this is actually a false memory (if that makes sense). I know how this sounds - I know it sounds like I need reassurance - but because of the seriousness of this image/scenario in my mind I think I need someone to speak to me rationally. However that time has gone, I tired to speak to one or two friends about this at the time, which was horrendously difficult for me, and they were just like 'don't be silly' etc etc but they mustn't have understood.

Anyway I'm sorry x

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Thanks everyone and I know you all care deep down.

I feel like I have took the leap of faith and have carried on as normal (or at least tried my best) but I'm no clearer to the answer or at least I don't have a reasonable amount of clarity (I know I will never achieve certainty).

I go through periods where by I feel better with a perhaps a little more clarity some days but then I always end up back to square one.

I feel like this false memory situation needs dealing with in a rational way. I feel like I need someone to sit with me and explain how this is actually a false memory (if that makes sense). I know how this sounds - I know it sounds like I need reassurance - but because of the seriousness of this image/scenario in my mind I think I need someone to speak to me rationally. However that time has gone, I tired to speak to one or two friends about this at the time, which was horrendously difficult for me, and they were just like 'don't be silly' etc etc but they mustn't have understood.

Anyway I'm sorry x

You're right back to square one again. I have been telling you, going on two years now, that you won't get a reasonable amount of clarity. I have flat out told you to stop looking for clarity. It is that search for clarity that is keeping you stuck. No amount of thinking about this is going to bring you the clarity you seek.

No amount of rational talk is going to convince you either. No one is going to be able to talk you to a final solution. The doubt will come back and you'll be starting over again.

Once again, you have to give up your search for certainty/clarity, whatever you want to call it. If you don't you will remain stuck.

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Honestly, Saz - and I don't mean this to sound harsh but I don't know how else to say it - you don't ever appear to take any of our advice on board, ever, and I have been talking to you about this for a long time now.

In all honesty I don't know why you continually ask us as I have never seen you take our advice on board or accept there's even a chance we could be right, not once - you assume we are all wrong, we don't understand, we assume it is OCD because it is an OCD forum, we fail to understand the seriousness of the situation, etc.

Caramoole made some very good points in her last post. I think you need to take a long hard look at your own role in this situation rather than responding in a knee jerk fashion.

Edited by gingerbreadgirl

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Taking a leap of faith means giving up compulsing.Right across all the themes of OCD we say that compulsing feeds the disorder, gives it power and strength.

But you just posted another huge dollop of compulsing Saz. Even in the face of hard evidence from Ginger and butterfly lady as to exactly what you need to do to get better - which is nothing, leave it all alone and trust what we have been saying....

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Here is a statement of my belief as to what constitutes a compulsion. I just thought this up while dozing so switched the phone back on.

"Any connecting - in any way or form - with an OCD intrusion, or the meaning being given to it, is a compulsion".

Hopefully Saz this will now show you what you have to give up doing.

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This thread has really exhausted it's usefulness. Everything that could be said, has been said, in as many formats and ways as possible. I don't think there's much more to add that (at the moment) isn't going to simply maintain the dialogue with Saz's OCD.

The next steps can only be made by Saz, by implementing the many suggestions and advice given as best she can.

If the conversation just continues on the same lines it will probably be better to close the thread :(

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Ok well no need to close the thread on my account.

I'm just stuck and I strongly disagree that I do not try and implement the advice given because I do.

I won't comment further but thanks as always

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If you look carefully at this thread and you're really honest with yourself you will see every single post is a compulsion.

And that's just this thread.

We asked you several times to attempt a simple exercise which we believe would help you, but so far you have refused to try.

This is why Caramoole is saying the thread is of limited usefulness.

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Hi Saz,

I don't think I can add anything here. I really feel for you because I've been where you are- it does get easier, I promise. You have to take the leap of faith and not engage.

Hang in there matey.

Binx

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Hi Saz. I think a useful exercise for you would be a suggestion made by Caramoole recently.

Imagine your post was made by someone else. What would you say?

No 'yes but' or 'but this is different' or 'I just think' or anything else.

Seriously imagine - that I or Roy or Orwell or someone else had written the exact post you've written above.

What would you say?

NO qualifying statements afterwards!

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Hi gbg

Sorry for sounding thick here but when you say 'no qualifying statements afterwards' do you mean I'm not supposed to write down on the forum what my response would be but instead just tell it to myself? X

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