Stuck, again trying to figure out if me wanting things a certain way is OCD

[saddaniels]

1 hour ago, PolarBear said:

Is zooming in and out on your TV a compulsion or is it you just being fussy about the way things are? In order for it to be a compulsion there must have been an intrusive thought that causes distress first. You can't have a compulsion without a corresponding obsession coming first. I think you're just fussy about some things and you're confusing that with doing compulsions.

This is what I'm analyzing over & over again to death. I'm not sure if its a compulsion. I start to think maybe I should just approximate it and not zoom in & out for an exposure, but I feel like that would just be a compulsion to have things not as I choose them to be. So, in the end, I think I should just keep it how I like it and take the attitude of "So what, maybe zooming in & out twice is a compulsion, but I can live with that." << Now, that phrase causes me anxiety. I'm focused in so hard on what my intrusive thoughts are, what my compulsions are, that i'm beginning to have uncertainty with those as well. 

[saddaniels]

And thank you for the responses, all of you. I'm glad to know I'm not alone in that it is possible to doubt pretty much everything with OCD & that there is no limit to what the disorder can latch onto. The more I try to think things through, the more I feel uncertain. OCD will not give me certainty over anything, and i need to accept this. I've got to get out of this over-analyzing mess.

Edited December 14, 2016 by saddaniels

[PolarBear]

12 minutes ago, saddaniels said:

I start to think maybe I should just approximate it and not zoom in & out for an exposure,

Forget about exposures! You're fixated on exposures! I don't know where you got this wrong idea that you have to do exposures all the time. It makes no sense. Just because you do a compulsion does not mean you do an exposure. That's not how ERP was set up.

[saddaniels]

I think I've gotten it from myself because I use the mindset that if I slip and do a compulsion, that must mean I have an irrational fear of something, so I immediately look for that fear and think of how I can expose myself to that fear. 

I think it comes from my intensive treatment having way too much focus on ERP and not enough cognitive work to be honest.

Yes, I'm beginning to see in my mind how my logic is basically torture and its wrong. I'm trying to stray away from wanting to do exposures as well.

[saddaniels]

Now, I'm second guessing that I'm trying so hard not to do exposures by choosing things the way I like them, that I should actually not worry so much about if I did happen to do an exposure. Which in turn would mean I should not set the TV how I like by my own standards. Maybe I shouldn't zoom in out a couple times the way I like to.

I don't know anymore. I doubt everything and this sucks. At first I thought I had an answer, but I don't anymore. I don't know what to do.

[taurean]

You must see that all of this is completely and utterly worthless. It is typical OCD, makes us tear ourselves to shreds over something of no real value at all.

You did have the answer - but then you started letting the disorder peddle you doubt. 

Stop listening to it. The rational answer you came to is what to do! No doubting, just keep to the path and ease gently back if you stray. 

 

 

Edited December 14, 2016 by taurean
typo

[PolarBear]

1 hour ago, saddaniels said:

Now, I'm second guessing that I'm trying so hard not to do exposures by choosing things the way I like them, that I should actually not worry so much about if I did happen to do an exposure. Which in turn would mean I should not set the TV how I like by my own standards. Maybe I shouldn't zoom in out a couple times the way I like to.

I don't know anymore. I doubt everything and this sucks. At first I thought I had an answer, but I don't anymore. I don't know what to do.

You do know what to do. We've been over this again and again. You are allowed to have preferences. Everyone is. The problem right now is all the ruminating you do, analyzing how to proceed. That's what's got to be curbed. You've got to clamp down and really fight the urge to sit there and ruminate over all of this.

You are allowed preferences. Period.

[saddaniels]

So, I just set the TV on my preference. And now, go figure, OCD is shouting at me "Actually, how can you be sure you set it on your preference. What if you set it on something you didn't like? What if you couldn't bring yourself to have a preference & make a decision based on what you wanted to do?" Its a never-ending hell hole I'll tell you. I'm past caring about my stupid TV, so what if its on the wrong setting? I. do. not. care. but now OCD is hitting in a place where I can't take a risk, and that is my ability to make decisions, have a preference, and be human. Its making its way in now making me doubt that I just made a decision based on my preference, but instead made a decision against my preference.  This feels like torture. Basically, I'm doubting that I can even bring myself to be human.

OCD is laughing in my face right now telling me that I just made a decision I didn't like, even though I'm pretty sure I did set it on my preference. I feel like I'm at the end of the road with this stuff. Its annoying, its devastating, its depressing, and it all hurts like hell. 

[saddaniels]

So basically the intrusive thought is now "Oh no, what if I just made a decision against my preference?"

I can't live with that. I can live with "The TV might be wrong" or "The CD might not be burned right", but I cannot live with OCD making me doubt that I have an ability to make a decision based on what I like.

[PolarBear]

So get yourself involved with something else. Forget about OCD. It will yammer on and try to upset the apple cart but you can choose to not listen to it. Read a book, watch TV, clean out the cupboards, go for a walk, do something. Refuse to get into mind debates with whatever OCD is throwing at you.

[saddaniels]

But if my fear is "what if I went against my preference when I made my initial decision" wouldn't I face that fear by exposing myself to not go with my preference.

Let me ask this, would a therapist in their right mind ever ask a patient to go against their initial preferences for an exposure, ever? Would they ever do that? I start to think they would and I freak out thinking I might should do that "exposure". 

[PolarBear]

As I've said before, you are fixated on doing exposures. No, there is no reason to do an exposure here. I've said it multiple times already but let me say it one more time: YOU ARE ALLOWED TO HAVE PREFERENCES.

What you really need to work on is your ruminating. I know you are constantly going over this in your head. You're analyzing, trying to figure things out. That's what you need to get a handle on.

[saddaniels]

I agree, the ruminating is the worst part of it.

I just keep thinking about how when I was obsessing about TV settings, how my therapists would ask me to take the approach of "so what if your tv setting is off?" AND they would actually have me set the settings on the TV to how I didn't want them.

Now, with this new fear of me doubting my own ability to make a decision based on my preference (to be more specific the fear has become "what if some weird part of me is choosing against my preference. What if I can't remember making a choice & I somehow, oddly, deliberately went against my own preference on purpose."

I can see the therapists now saying " so what if you went against your preference?" And even worse "lets expose you to going against your preference until you habituate to not needing a preference."

I think that idea of an exposure is torture. I don't think anyone should be exposed to "oh, it's okay if you don't have a preference" who would really ever habituate to that exposure? I don't think anyone would. Thats almost like exposing someone to "oh, it's okay if you did hit someone with your car. Who cares?" No, never. There are some ideas & situations you should be exposed to and then there is pushing the limits to what it morally correct to be exposed to. 

[Franklin12]

Where have you got the idea from that the idea is to not care? The idea is to let yourself be scared. Let yourself be scared that you're watching the TV on the wrong setting. Let yourself be scared that you can't have a preference. Let yourself be scared that you're doing your therapy all wrong. That's the exposure, it's not about learning to not care about serious or important things.

[saddaniels]

I'm worried that my urge to do exposures will never diminish. I find myself always doubting whether or not I should do an exposure when i get an intrusive thought, after I do a compulsion. I doubt if I'm performing in compulsions or not. And if I am, I feel I should be doing exposures. Exposure therapy saves lives. It's been proven. It was the #1 treatment strategy at the residential program I was in. I saw it work for many people, but lately, the therapy has become an obsession. I feel like I'm doomed. I definitely cannot seem to accept that exposures may not be for me when I see them work for so many other people. Maybe exposures do work for me, but I'm approaching them all wrong. I don't know what to do. I don't know how long I should expose myself. I don't know which exposures would be beneficial & which ones would be considered distressing behavior. Don't know if I'm doing a compulsion or exposure. Don't know if I've really habituated or not. I doubt my anxiety levels. It's a mess and i want to get out of it. For me to simply do nothing seems far fetched. If I was supposed to leave everything alone, why do people do exposures after they participate in compulsive behavior. It's confusing. Very confusing. Also, during my exposure treatment in residential, I was never told that I was allowed to go back to having a preference or when I could go back to a preference. I felt like I had to be exposed forever to things being the opposite way of how i wanted them. I'm in quicksand and I'm sinking.

 

Edited December 16, 2016 by saddaniels

[saddaniels]

And PolarBear, I am not trying to undermine you, but in residential treatment people actually did "undo" their compulsions. It was a tool used by my therapists called specifically, the "undo" technique. Lets say for example a person just washed their hands as a compulsion, their "undo" would then be to touch something dirty. Therapists wanted patients to do this throughout the whole day when they noticed themselves giving into a compulsion. And so if I have a compulsion to check the TV settings/analyze my actions, my "undo" would be to set the TV setting on how I didn't prefer it/do an action I didn't prefer. This was a real thing. I don't agree with it, but it was used a lot at my treatment center. Its almost like they WERE MAKING NO ROOM FOR MISTAKES. When you did a compulsion, you fixed it immediately, even if the compulsion was ruminating .This is getting to my head way too much. I am on edge. My vision is getting blurry. This is bad, bad bad. I wasn't even this bad until I went into treatment. I don't have any hope anymore. I feel like I'm walking corpse. I can't see the light anymore.

Edited December 17, 2016 by saddaniels

[saddaniels]

I don't agree with the "undoing" technique, but my therapists said it would make me better so I have to keep doing it. Although it feels like torture, if they said to do the "undoing" technique they are the experts, but I don't agree with it. This is torture. I hate myself. I can not keep doing exposures every time I do minimal compulsions or else I won't be able to live. But, I have to do that if I want to get better. The therapists, the experts say so. I don't know what to do. I'm at the end of my rope. There is no hope left because apparently I'm supposed to devote my entire life to therapy according to the therapists "rules" & this stupid "undoing" technique that was spoon fed to all of us in treatment at residential.

Edited December 17, 2016 by saddaniels

[paradoxer]

Just getting the popcorn out of the microwave ... 

Edited December 17, 2016 by paradoxer

[saddaniels]

I don't know what to do about the undo technique. I don't know when to stop undoing and exposing myself and I need help. My therapists think I should always counter a compulsion with an exposure, but it's just making me miserable. I don't have time to live my life anymore because I'm always on guard for compulsions and when I do a compulsion, I have to make things wrong on purpose, even though I know it's the OCD that had me do a compulsion. This is awful I can't be perfect.

 

[PolarBear]

I don't have much time right now but what makes you think that choosing to have your TV a certain way is a compulsion? I have to agree with the concept if undoing washing your hands by touching something contaminated. But that's after doing a compulsion. I don't think you're undoing a compulsion. You're making a simple choice, a preference. 

Furthermore, your OCD, what you are having intrusive thoughts about, is therapy, not settings on your TV. 

[saddaniels]

If afraid that if I do happen to do a compulsion again surrounding my TV, then that will mean I have to do an exposure, by the logic of the undo technique. But if that's the case, I'm going to be doing exposures my whole life because I'm never going to be 100% compulsion free. Like we talked about, that's unrealistic. Even though I know it doesn't matter what setting the TV is on, I have a disorder that likes to check. Some part of OCD is unexplainable and never cured. What is driving me up the wall, is that since i will never be compulsion free, that means I will never be exposure free and then that means I'm going to have to have things the way I don't want them my entire life. Basically torture. I feel like I should be allowed a grace period for compulsions until they start to become debilitating . Then, I could see the point in going back to do exposures again. I just feel like the occasional compulsion shouldn't require an exposure because I'm never going to be 100% free of OCD, if that makes sense. Now multiple compulsions that interfere with my day, yes, maybe going back to exposures would be a good thing.

I feel like I'm allowed to make mistakes and let them go and remind myself that the mistakes/compulsions were pointless, rather than having to have things the opposite of how i want them after every compulsion.  That's trying to be too perfect. I don't think that's realistic, but again, maybe im wrong.

 

Edited December 17, 2016 by saddaniels

[saddaniels]

And paradoxer I think it's disgusting that you are getting off on my suffering "sitting back with popcorn". Ever stopped to think that maybe you are psychotic?

[snowbear]

Hey, hey, folks. Let's not start bickering!  

It's easy to read something the wrong way online. We haven't got facial expressions or tone of voice to clue us in to what the person is saying and may take the words at face value instead of 'reading between the lines'. Especially so if we're already feeling confused and vulnerable. 

Saddaniels, I'm certain all Paradoxer meant by his popcorn comment was 'here we go again' in a sad, rolling of the eyes way. He's not laughing at you or getting off on your misery. Just wondering (as we all are) how else to help you get off this merry-go-round of thoughts. It's hard to watch someone circling through the same trapped thinking and behaviours when the way to escape the cycle is so obvious to outside observers. 

Paradoxer, we all fall foul of it sometimes, but it's important to take a moment before posting to ask ourselves how we'd feel reading our words and whether what's on the screen is likely to be read the way we intended. Remember that sarcasm in particular relies on tone of voice and often doesn't come across in written form, being read instead as malicious or taunting. 

Everybody, please remember that on the forums:-

When there's room for doubt about what was intended, step back, take a deep breath and let it go.

[PolarBear]

Now does it sound logical that you should be doing exposures forever or does it sound more likely that you've got the wrong idea about recovery going on?

I'll say it again, though this is like the sixth time now, you're allowed to have preferences. Choosing a preference is not a compulsion and does not require an exposure to be done.

[paradoxer]

1 hour ago, snowbear said:

Hey, hey, folks. Let's not start bickering!  

It's easy to read something the wrong way online. We haven't got facial expressions or tone of voice to clue us in to what the person is saying and may take the words at face value instead of 'reading between the lines'. Especially so if we're already feeling confused and vulnerable. 

Saddaniels, I'm certain all Paradoxer meant by his popcorn comment was 'here we go again' in a sad, rolling of the eyes way. He's not laughing at you or getting off on your misery. Just wondering (as we all are) how else to help you get off this merry-go-round of thoughts. It's hard to watch someone circling through the same trapped thinking and behaviours when the way to escape the cycle is so obvious to outside observers. 

Paradoxer, we all fall foul of it sometimes, but it's important to take a moment before posting to ask ourselves how we'd feel reading our words and whether what's on the screen is likely to be read the way we intended. Remember that sarcasm in particular relies on tone of voice and often doesn't come across in written form, being read instead as malicious or taunting. 

Everybody, please remember that on the forums:-

When there's room for doubt about what was intended, step back, take a deep breath and let it go.

Snowbear, noted. Thanks.