Norovirus and flu outbreaks

[BelAnna]

There are high levels of both norovirus (various strains) and flu (various strains) at the moment and I'm having a hard time.

My Dad has just returned to work and took a train today so had to pick up a ticket from one of those disgusting touchscreen machines. I am freaking out- we live in the Midlands and apparently hand hygiene is poorer on average here (this obviously doesn't mean everyone has poor hand hygiene!!) than some other places in the country AND thousands of dirty fingers will have touched the screen. Even nice clean people who shower and wash their hands will have germs on their hands from using public toilets, shops, shaking hands with colleagues etc.

I am scared that we're going to get ill. I understand that other people don't care but I am absolutely terrified of stomach bugs and a bit scared of flu. When I was at the Anxiety Disorders Residential unit we had to make 'Anxious predictions' as part of CBT and then record the result- so here goes:

Anxious Prediction: My family and I will contract flu/norovirus within the next 7 days as a result of hand-mouth transmission of pathogens from the train/touchscreen/public loos.

Likelihood (subjective): 65%

Anxiety level: 9/10

Edited January 31, 2018 by BelAnna

[PolarBear]

What do you want us to say?

You can't know that your family will get sick. But, the possibility exists that you will get sick. People get sick. It's a fact of life. If you do, you'll deal with it. And I'm betting that actually being sick would not be worse than the torment you put yourself through in anticipation.

[PolarBear]

Put another way, the fear you have of being sick is worse than actually being sick.

[Angst]

Of course the subjective probability is your prediction of the likelihood of getting a bug and has little to do with the empirical and observational probability. Nonetheless it’s a good starting point to discuss risk with a therapist or with yourself in a session of self reflection. Where did the figure of the poor hygiene of Midlanders come from? And how on earth was it measured? Que será  será -there’s nothing you can do. Worry serves no objective purpose.

[Storm]

Sounds like you’ve done some research there. I can’t imagine how difficult it must me to live with emetiphobia fears, however I doubt your fear of being sick is any stronger than mine is of making my child ill (I’m not making it a competition but I want you to understand it’s possible to overcome or at the very least manage your fears).

today I’ve been shopping to loads of shops touched baskets and trolleys and started to feel really hungry and a bit light headed so picked up a boiled egg and spinach pot (yucky! But a healthy slimming world friendly option). With no access to cutlery, and a really busy day ahead I ate the snack with my hands and went home and made lunch. Then drove to the hosp, ran to the shops (again), used my hands to take a painkiller, picked up a kinder egg for the little one, picked her up from school, held her hand then she ate her kinder egg with her hands and then nipped to docs for a prescription (she was holding onto to counter and was peering over it) then we went home, all without washing hands.

This stuff did make me feel uncomfortable but it’s getting on with my day without letting ocd ruin every waking second. Sep 2016 I had bleeding split hands, struggling to even make a sandwich for my daughter, i couldn’t leave the house with handgel, wipes etc. I was a mess. It’s not been easy and I battle every day with contamination issues, but things have improved greatly and it’s down to cbt and putting what I’m learning into practice, and ultimately trusting my therapist.

apologies for the poorly written reply, and to think I want to teach for a living! 

You can overcome these fears BelAnna.   

[BelAnna]

1 hour ago, PolarBear said:

Put another way, the fear you have of being sick is worse than actually being sick.

Hi Polarbear,

Thanks, the problem is that I have had Emetophobia since I was 7 and the times that I have thrown-up with Norovirus (I've not had food poisoning yet nor have I got quite drunk enough to be sick) have been horrendous and only reinforced my fear.

I did have a rotavirus infection 11 years ago (the last time I was sick) and it wasn't too bad but I'm not sure whether the fear or the vomiting is worse really. However I need to realize that I've wasted around 8000 days (the days that I've had this phobia) in fear of vomiting and only spent about 30-40 days actually vomiting/being unwell so even if I catch a bug and it's horrendous it will last about two days in the whole year and I could save 363 days of compulsions  if I let go of my Emet/contamination... still easier said than done!

1 hour ago, Angst said:

Of course the subjective probability is your prediction of the likelihood of getting a bug and has little to do with the empirical and observational probability. Nonetheless it’s a good starting point to discuss risk with a therapist or with yourself in a session of self reflection. Where did the figure of the poor hygiene of Midlanders come from? And how on earth was it measured? Que será  será -there’s nothing you can do. Worry serves no objective purpose.T

Thanks Angst, I'm sure the real probability is massively lower- I think it's more just that my OCD is telling me that it is more likely than not that we will get ill. The study into regional hand hygiene used a self-report questionnaire asking about whether people washed their hands after using toilets and how frequently they showered- the Midlands was poorer than other regions. I think that there was another region-based study where they took swabs from door handles and surfaces in public places and looked at levels of coliform bacteria. Anyway, thanks Angst, I know it isn't helpful to think like this.

1 hour ago, Storm said:

Sounds like you’ve done some research there. I can’t imagine how difficult it must me to live with emetiphobia fears, however I doubt your fear of being sick is any stronger than mine is of making my child ill (I’m not making it a competition but I want you to understand it’s possible to overcome or at the very least manage your fears).

today I’ve been shopping to loads of shops touched baskets and trolleys and started to feel really hungry and a bit light headed so picked up a boiled egg and spinach pot (yucky! But a healthy slimming world friendly option). With no access to cutlery, and a really busy day ahead I ate the snack with my hands and went home and made lunch. Then drove to the hosp, ran to the shops (again), used my hands to take a painkiller, picked up a kinder egg for the little one, picked her up from school, held her hand then she ate her kinder egg with her hands and then nipped to docs for a prescription (she was holding onto to counter and was peering over it) then we went home, all without washing hands.

This stuff did make me feel uncomfortable but it’s getting on with my day without letting ocd ruin every waking second. Sep 2016 I had bleeding split hands, struggling to even make a sandwich for my daughter, i couldn’t leave the house with handgel, wipes etc. I was a mess. It’s not been easy and I battle every day with contamination issues, but things have improved greatly and it’s down to cbt and putting what I’m learning into practice, and ultimately trusting my therapist.

apologies for the poorly written reply, and to think I want to teach for a living! 

You can overcome these fears BelAnna.   

Thanks Storm, I'm sure my Emet-contamination is no worse than yours; it's just very difficult to cope with! Until recently I was showering in bleach and Dettol and wearing disposable gloves most of the time so things aren't at their worst at the moment. There are so many things that I cannot do as a result of this fear such as visit the GP,  dentist, hairdressers etc.

It sounds like you are doing amazingly well despite having to cope with severe OCD at the moment- it's inspirational! Do you still feel very anxious/uncomfortable when facing your contamination fears or has the anxiety been getting less over time?

Edited January 31, 2018 by BelAnna

[daja]

7 minutes ago, BelAnna said:

Until recently I was showering in bleach and Dettol and wearing disposable gloves most of the time so things aren't at their worst at the moment.

I have a phobia of bleach and Dettol. I used to wear gloves for everything.

Edited January 31, 2018 by daja

[PolarBear]

Do you understand that mot visiting those places is in fact reinforcing your fear of getting sick? You think you're doing it to protect yourself but you're only making matters worse.

[BelAnna]

51 minutes ago, daja said:

I have a phobia of bleach and Dettol. I used to wear gloves for everything.

Weirdly I'm now quite scared of chemicals/cleaning products too! I worry about accidentally harming my dog by using them! (but still can't avoid it sometimes).

 

32 minutes ago, PolarBear said:

Do you understand that mot visiting those places is in fact reinforcing your fear of getting sick? You think you're doing it to protect yourself but you're only making matters worse.

Yes I do, I know that anxiety increases with avoidance and that you falsely learn that you are safe because you are avoiding feared situations rather than learning that there is nothing to be afraid of.

[JennieWren]

I'm so glad you've managed to stop some of the more extreme responses you have to your fear. The thought of you thinking you need to shower in bleach is upsetting. But thank you for sharing as it shows the challenge you face.

I think slow change might be the way to go. If you can change how you shower, you can slowly change other behaviours. Could you try giving yourself one challenge?

The dentist might be a good one as they tend to be very clean and use gloves and sterile instruments.

So, things that will challenge you but not overwhelm you? 

[legalseagull]

Hi BelAnna, I'm really struggling with the same fears at the moment. I keep telling myself that being sick is not that bad. It doesn't matter that I don't believe it, it's just a case of chipping away at the negative/catastrophic thoughts that we have 100s of time a day.

Of course vomiting often makes emetophobes worse, as happened in your case (and mine).  This is because we didn't process the event in a healthy way. Some people become terrified of vomit after quite a mild experience whilst others have horrible experiences with vomiting without becoming phobic. It's all to do with how we mentally deal with it afterwards. Shrugging it off, even  laughing about it and not changing any behaviour is a healthy way. Pretty much the opposite of what we do.

I know how hard this is, it's making my life a misery. I'm determined to brainwash myself into thinking differently. Try it - even if we're lying to ourselves at the moment, it's got to be worth a go.