Issues that sit alongside OCD

[gingerbreadgirl]

15 minutes ago, Isthisreality said:

It is OCD i am 100 certain

I'm not claiming this isn't OCD or I don't have OCD.  I think you are misunderstanding what I'm saying. 

[Gemma7]

Franklin, no one wants to feel guilt and shame and it's completely normal to not want to feel those things

I think this is your problem... 

16 minutes ago, Franklin12 said:

Logically I know that this is stupid and that I live my life with chronic mild bad feelings to avoid an acite episode of very intense bad feelings.

What if the things you do every day don't prevent having sometimes very intense bad feelings, what if they only contribute negatively to you? What if sometimes feeling bad is inevitable. That's what you find out with therapy. 

Also finding better ways to handle these feelings is important, why are they so bad? Do you think in certain ways, like expecting more from yourself than others, that contributes to these feelings being worse for you. What or who do you have in your life that can help you feel more resilient when you get these feelings. 

10 minutes ago, gingerbreadgirl said:

I think what you need to do is expose yourself to the possibility of feeling bad, just as everyone else does, and live with that uncertainty and possibility without trying to mitigate it, just allowing it to be a grey area. 

This too  

[gingerbreadgirl]

2 minutes ago, Franklin12 said:

Ha ha that is strange! Completely opposite! Well I’m exposing myself now - work is incredibly stressful and I feel like any time now is my fall from grace. I am already in flight mode, mentally resigning and going to live on a small holding with some chickens.

ha that sounds great!

I think you need to accept this could happen, as it could to anyone, even if the chances are remote.  I think you need to have a "to hell with it" approach.  A few years ago I had an "I'm going to prison" fear and I got past this by (although since come back, but still) just saying "OK, maybe.  Fine."  Eventually I adapted to this and didn't need to rule it out completely (just as with many other remote possibilities), I accepted it was a remote possibility and got on with my life.  By trying so hard to prevent your fear from occurring, you are reinforcing how important it is and your mind is fixated on it. if you just think "meh" then your brain thinks it's safe to move on. 

[Isthisreality]

9 minutes ago, gingerbreadgirl said:

I'm not claiming this isn't OCD or I don't have OCD.  I think you are misunderstanding what I'm saying. 

But i see what you are doing and you need to put all this aside for a time id you want that recovery.

You dont need more explainations. What in you are getting defensive when i say this? 

It is OCD

 

What i am saying is that it is ok analyze about how to be a good person WHEN you have recovered. 

And franklin: no more thougjts about guilt before you are recovered

Edited April 5, 2018 by Isthisreality

[gingerbreadgirl]

41 minutes ago, Isthisreality said:

But i see what you are doing and you need to put all this aside for a time id you want that recovery.

You dont need more explainations. What in you are getting defensive when i say this? 

It is OCD

 

What i am saying is that it is ok analyze about how to be a good person WHEN you have recovered. 

And franklin: no more thougjts about guilt before you are recovered

ok fair enough  

[gingerbreadgirl]

2 hours ago, Franklin12 said:

Ha ha that is strange! Completely opposite! Well I’m exposing myself now - work is incredibly stressful and I feel like any time now is my fall from grace. I am already in flight mode, mentally resigning and going to live on a small holding with some chickens.

how was your day in the end Franklin?

[taurean]

I am going to toss into the ring a piece of knowledge that helped me enormously.

I have never favoured the method of agreeing with the OCD - exposing oneself to the possibility that we are bad, we could do harm etc. 

What I found terrific is the cognitive knowledge that with this sort of manifestation OCD turns a corresponding core value on its head and alleges the opposite. 

In other words, the knowledge that it is OCD  making out I am bad, I could harm someone or -  as Caramoole said on another thread - lose control. 

This really resonated with me, in fact it was a lightbulb moment, a real dealmaker. 

And it worked well for me.  And in my exposure and response prevention I felt the OCD suggestions but, because I knew my true core value remained intact, I could tough it out and feel the anxiety dissipated. 

I was so thankful that my therapists preferred this method. 

Edited April 5, 2018 by taurean

[gingerbreadgirl]

3 minutes ago, taurean said:

I am going to toss into the ring a piece of knowledge that helped me enormously.

I have never favoured the method of agreeing with the OCD - exposing oneself to the possibility that we are bad, we could do harm etc. 

What I found terrific is the cognitive knowledge that with this sort of manifestation OCD turns a corresponding core value on its head and alleges the opposite. 

In other words, the knowledge that it is OCD  making out I am bad, I could harm someone or -  as Caramoole said on another thread - lose control. 

This really resonated with me, in fact it was a lightbulb moment, a real dealmaker. 

And it worked well for me.  And in my exposure and response prevention I felt the OCD suggestions but, because I knew my true core value remained intact, I could tough it out and feel the anxiety dissipated. 

I was so thankful that my therapists preferred this method. 

This is interesting Roy.  I still haven't made my mind up what I think about this, whether it is better to agree with thoughts or not.  I have to say the various themes I have beaten in the past, I've done so without agreeing with the thoughts but by not engaging with them.  But then, I am now worse than ever so who knows!!

[snowbear]

31 minutes ago, taurean said:

I have never favoured the method of agreeing with the OCD - exposing oneself to the possibility that we are bad, we could do harm etc.

So in essence you're saying you're afraid of even the possibility of being bad, would find it unacceptable to consider you could possibly do harm?  

But what happens if you unintentionally cause harm? How do you live with yourself if your core value is stuck on 'I am a good person who never harms anybody and any thoughts to the contrary are just OCD'?   How do you accept your natural and inevitable imperfections? Or do you fool yourself you haven't got any??  

That's why I found agreeing with the thoughts was liberating. Ultimately it enabled me to accept myself as human (a mix of good and bad and able to forgive the bad) which left fears of failure/wrongdoing/doing harm/being of an evil nature nowhere to go. 

At one time I went all out with it and not only agreed with the thoughts but welcomed them. Yeah, I'm bad - so what? Don't mess with me then!  That was the turning point where my self-confidence returned after several years of total withdrawal due to shame, guilt and self-blame. 

I think agreeing/accepting your worst fear is a possibility (and understanding the world doesn't end and you'll cope whatever) is empowering. It builds confidence and self-esteem. 

Developing self-compassion is also very important. If you can forgive yourself as readily as you forgive others then you need not fear making a mistake or error of judgement that might be considered bad. Often the fear isn't 'being bad' but a fear of not being forgiven/doing the unforgivable. When you realise everything is forgivable it puts a different slant on the fear and therefore on the need for perfect goodness, without turning you into a bad person. Far from it - in recognising nothing is beyond forgiveness you actually become a better, more compassionate person.  

[Franklin12]

I didn’t do great unfortunately - I didn’t do any of the right things and carried on thinking the worst case scenario. I can definitely feel myself resisting letting go - I really know I logically need to, and I dearly wish I could pretend not to care. I blame lack of sleep and overwork though - tomorrow is a new day. It’s either change or chickens. 

Thanks for all the advice, it’s interesting to see other people’s perspectives, I just need a bit of courage on this one!

[gingerbreadgirl]

 

4 minutes ago, Franklin12 said:

I didn’t do great unfortunately - I didn’t do any of the right things and carried on thinking the worst case scenario. I can definitely feel myself resisting letting go - I really know I logically need to, and I dearly wish I could pretend not to care. I blame lack of sleep and overwork though - tomorrow is a new day. It’s either change or chickens. 

Thanks for all the advice, it’s interesting to see other people’s perspectives, I just need a bit of courage on this one!

sorry to hear that Franklin.  Go easy on yourself, though.  Most people struggle with bad days at work and lack of sleep at the best of times, without OCD to contend with as well. 

Tomorrow's a new day, and all that.  And I think it's important to take it in baby steps rather than trying to overhaul your whole mindset all at once.  Rome wasn't built in a day etc.  It's important to give yourself a break x

[Franklin12]

Thanks GBG (and Snowbear Roy and Gemma!). Hope you’re doing ok too. 

[gingerbreadgirl]

have you tried doing what you did with your murder fear - i.e. going all out with it "this is definitely going to happen, I'll get fired and have to raise chickens etc" - if so how did it make you feel?

[Franklin12]

No I haven’t tried that with this one. This just rumbles on without being intense so it’s easy to let it be there and just hindering my life - the murdering one I had to do something because I was slipping into a very dark place. Maybe I’ll give that a try! Thanks. 

[taurean]

1 hour ago, snowbear said:

2 hours ago, taurean said:

I have never favoured the method of agreeing with the OCD - exposing oneself to the possibility that we are bad, we could do harm etc.

So in essence you're saying you're afraid of even the possibility of being bad, would find it unacceptable to consider you could possibly do harm?  

But what happens if you unintentionally cause harm? How do you live with yourself if your core value is stuck on 'I am a good person who never harms anybody and any thoughts to the contrary are just OCD'?   How do you accept your natural and inevitable imperfections? Or do you fool yourself you haven't got any??  

Ah but I don't think like that at all. My therapist asked me to put together my real character reference and keep it safe somewhere. To make sure it was realistic, Julie (my wife)  helped me. 

At first there were times I needed to refer back to my true character reference, but not for long.I knew it well enough.

I had got the knack of changing my thinking based on what I knew of the thinking distortions OCD was using. The cognitive side was prevailing. 

I didn’t come up with this idea, my therapists did. I was grateful, because I didn't believe in the wisdom or efficacy of the believing you could in exposure therapy. 

In the structured exposure and response prevention sessions with this method, the strength of the intrusion is gradually rendered benign by the cognitive knowledge that OCD is turning my core character values on their head. But I need have no fear, need not believe that erroneous core belief because I know it is false. 

 

Edited April 5, 2018 by taurean
amendment

[gingerbreadgirl]

11 hours ago, taurean said:

Ah but I don't think like that at all. My therapist asked me to put together my real character reference and keep it safe somewhere. To make sure it was realistic, Julie (my wife)  helped me. 

At first there were times I needed to refer back to my true character reference, but not for long.I knew it well enough.

I had got the knack of changing my thinking based on what I knew of the thinking distortions OCD was using. The cognitive side was prevailing. 

I didn’t come up with this idea, my therapists did. I was grateful, because I didn't believe in the wisdom or efficacy of the believing you could in exposure therapy. 

In the structured exposure and response prevention sessions with this method, the strength of the intrusion is gradually rendered benign by the cognitive knowledge that OCD is turning my core character values on their head. But I need have no fear, need not believe that erroneous core belief because I know it is false. 

 

I am starting to realise that there are different routes to recovery and essentially they are different ways of letting go of compulsions.