Getting teenage son to do what counsellor says and help himself

[paulfoel]

Having a hard time with this. 

We've had issues with taking his medications. Didn't take for about a month because he "forgot". Now we have to supervise him at same time every day otherwise he wouldn't take them. We were out the other night and gran was at home looking after - he forgot. One day on his own. 

Very annoying because these meds do help him a lot. And to get this we've had to pay over £400 in private psych fees and take him to appointments an hours drive away!

Hes seeing CAMHS at the moment and the counsellor is pretty good. She comes up with things for him to do. (His OCD/compulsions) are to do with bathroom rituals. Previous appt he had to try and cut one thing out.

Did he bother to try? Nope. Not at all.

Last time, she gave him sheets to fill out to time himself. She suggested we get a timer so we did. Week gone by now has he done it - nope.

We tried the positive approach - we'll give you x if you do it for x days - Nope.

We've reminded him nicely 2-3 times. We've upped it and said he needs to follow advice - nope. We gave him a final warning. Last night we had the "I forgot" excuse again so he lost the use of his PC which he was not happy about. We had no other choice.

Part of the problem is his PC. All he cares about is getting back on his PC asap. Which is why other things take a back seat. We've got 2 bathrooms and another toliet at home. If he spends an hour in there (which he does) then it doesn't cause much hassle. We tell him not to use all the hot water but he ignores us (it has no effect on him he doesnt pay the bills!)

We're going away shortly - there won't be three toilets. It will be a problem but I know full well he won;t give a monkeys. He rarely wants to leave the house because of things like this. We've managed to stop it now but we;'ve had some nightmares with public toilets with him. He used to like to spray EVERY surface (it would be like it had rained in the bathroom) and spead toilet roll on every inch of the floor. He once completely blocked (and they had to close it for the rest of the flight) toliet on a plane which was not cool.

Hes happy to go to appointments but makes no effort to try to help himself. He just wants to carry on as normal and not make any efforts. Its all too easy for him at home but of course life isnt like that. He seems to be blinkered to just seeing PC games, go in toilet/shower at home for an hour if he likes and nothing else.

Hes ok in school - but he just doesnt use the toilet - which is not reallty a solution but hes happy to just go with it. (although in the past we have caught him taking anti diarhoea tables out of the cupboard to stop himsef needing loo at school - that wont end well with everyday use of course).

"You can lead a horse to water" etc. We just don't know what to do to encourage him....

[lostinme]

11 hours ago, paulfoel said:

Having a hard time with this. 

We've had issues with taking his medications. Didn't take for about a month because he "forgot". Now we have to supervise him at same time every day otherwise he wouldn't take them. We were out the other night and gran was at home looking after - he forgot. One day on his own. 

Very annoying because these meds do help him a lot. And to get this we've had to pay over £400 in private psych fees and take him to appointments an hours drive away!

Hes seeing CAMHS at the moment and the counsellor is pretty good. She comes up with things for him to do. (His OCD/compulsions) are to do with bathroom rituals. Previous appt he had to try and cut one thing out.

Did he bother to try? Nope. Not at all.

Last time, she gave him sheets to fill out to time himself. She suggested we get a timer so we did. Week gone by now has he done it - nope.

We tried the positive approach - we'll give you x if you do it for x days - Nope.

We've reminded him nicely 2-3 times. We've upped it and said he needs to follow advice - nope. We gave him a final warning. Last night we had the "I forgot" excuse again so he lost the use of his PC which he was not happy about. We had no other choice.

Part of the problem is his PC. All he cares about is getting back on his PC asap. Which is why other things take a back seat. We've got 2 bathrooms and another toliet at home. If he spends an hour in there (which he does) then it doesn't cause much hassle. We tell him not to use all the hot water but he ignores us (it has no effect on him he doesnt pay the bills!)

We're going away shortly - there won't be three toilets. It will be a problem but I know full well he won;t give a monkeys. He rarely wants to leave the house because of things like this. We've managed to stop it now but we;'ve had some nightmares with public toilets with him. He used to like to spray EVERY surface (it would be like it had rained in the bathroom) and spead toilet roll on every inch of the floor. He once completely blocked (and they had to close it for the rest of the flight) toliet on a plane which was not cool.

Hes happy to go to appointments but makes no effort to try to help himself. He just wants to carry on as normal and not make any efforts. Its all too easy for him at home but of course life isnt like that. He seems to be blinkered to just seeing PC games, go in toilet/shower at home for an hour if he likes and nothing else.

Hes ok in school - but he just doesnt use the toilet - which is not reallty a solution but hes happy to just go with it. (although in the past we have caught him taking anti diarhoea tables out of the cupboard to stop himsef needing loo at school - that wont end well with everyday use of course).

"You can lead a horse to water" etc. We just don't know what to do to encourage him....

Hi paulfoel,

I totally understand and guess at times it can be quite frustrating. However I think it varies a lot between each child, some fourteen year olds are quite mature and can readily deal with their own responsibilities, but some children develop these skills at a later age. Also at this age a lot of teenagers have no sense of values, I don’t think it’s through ignorance, more they don’t understand the importance of how much things cost, they only start to realise this when they start earning their own money and spending and saving themselves. Maybe you could set a time when you are altogether, such as teatime? and get him use to taking his tablet at this time. This will hopefully over time learn him some responsibility and get him use to taking it. 

Im afraid to say a positive approach that we will give you xyz won’t make any difference when he’s trying to do therapy, it’s very difficult especially in the early stages and very frightening. If someone said to me I’d give you a million pound if you can get over this in six months time, it wouldn’t make any difference. With what I can see he as only been with camhs for a short period of time, it takes time to start to view and percieve his thoughts differently through the cognitive side of things and it takes time to begin to make changes to the behavioural side of things also. There will be weeks where he feels unable to achieve any tasks given even through the later stages of therapy, it takes extreme courage to do so. If it was so easy, if we could all just avoid doing one compulsion a week, we would all be better in no time at all, sadly it’s not so easy. 

The best positive approach for your son is to praise him for every baby step he takes no matter how small, be there for him when he falls and encourage, love and support him every single day, even on bad days. Also making an heirachy from the least anxiety provoking one, to the worst, so when he starts working through therapy he starts on the easiest one first. When he achieves this and it no longer causes him anxiety or upset move on to the next one and so on, it does take time and it’s something that won’t happen overnight. I’ve been doing cbt for two years now and I’ve still a way to go, but everyone varies considerably depending on how severe their OCD is, how many compulsions they do and how it impacts on their lives, it can take anything from 6 months/ 1 yr/ 2 yr etc I’m afriad it’s something you can’t put a time limit on. 

 

 

 

[BelAnna]

10 hours ago, paulfoel said:

Having a hard time with this. 

We've had issues with taking his medications. Didn't take for about a month because he "forgot". Now we have to supervise him at same time every day otherwise he wouldn't take them. We were out the other night and gran was at home looking after - he forgot. One day on his own. 

You obviously love your son and it's great that you've put so much effort, money and time into trying to help him to get better. I wonder though if you're quite resentful and annoyed with your son for the effect his condition has on the family.

Please keep in mind that he is only 14, he's just a kid so he might really forget to take his medication- it's probably best to supervise him with them. It's not the kind of thing to feel annoyed with him about. Another possibility is that he does not feel very good on the medication but doesn't feel able to express this because he knows that it's supposed to be helping and that you're very invested in it working.

10 hours ago, paulfoel said:

Very annoying because these meds do help him a lot. And to get this we've had to pay over £400 in private psych fees and take him to appointments an hours drive away!

Hes seeing CAMHS at the moment and the counsellor is pretty good. She comes up with things for him to do. (His OCD/compulsions) are to do with bathroom rituals. Previous appt he had to try and cut one thing out.

Did he bother to try? Nope. Not at all.

Are you sure? I am also currently in CBT; my therapist pushes me to do homework- sometimes I haven't managed it because my anxiety is too great or because there are other stresses in my life that make it hard for me to cope with the added anxiety of resisting a compulsion. Your son is so young that he probably has an even harder time rationalising his anxiety. 

10 hours ago, paulfoel said:

We tried the positive approach - we'll give you x if you do it for x days - Nope.

This ^^ actually demonstrates that he is probably finding the tasks too tricky- if he cannot complete tasks despite an incentive to do so.

10 hours ago, paulfoel said:

We've reminded him nicely 2-3 times. We've upped it and said he needs to follow advice - nope. We gave him a final warning. Last night we had the "I forgot" excuse again so he lost the use of his PC which he was not happy about. We had no other choice.

Part of the problem is his PC. All he cares about is getting back on his PC asap. Which is why other things take a back seat. We've got 2 bathrooms and another toliet at home. If he spends an hour in there (which he does) then it doesn't cause much hassle. We tell him not to use all the hot water but he ignores us (it has no effect on him he doesnt pay the bills!)

 

10 hours ago, paulfoel said:

We're going away shortly - there won't be three toilets. It will be a problem but I know full well he won;t give a monkeys. He rarely wants to leave the house because of things like this. We've managed to stop it now but we;'ve had some nightmares with public toilets with him. He used to like to spray EVERY surface (it would be like it had rained in the bathroom) and spead toilet roll on every inch of the floor. He once completely blocked (and they had to close it for the rest of the flight) toliet on a plane which was not cool.

Honestly I wouldn't be so sure- he will probably feel incredibly anxious that he won't have sole use of one bathroom. He might feel much more stressed out with having to share a bathroom and he's likely to react by extending his bathroom visits. 

Re. Public toilets I can imagine both he and you really have had a nightmare of a time with them. He will be feeling absolutely terrified, surrounded by a mist of chemicals and feeling as though he has lost control. 

I bet he was really embarrassed about blocking the toilet on the plane, as were you.

10 hours ago, paulfoel said:

He's happy to go to appointments but makes no effort to try to help himself

He just wants to carry on as normal and not make any efforts. Its all too easy for him at home but of course life isnt like that. He seems to be blinkered to just seeing PC games, go in toilet/shower at home for an hour if he likes and nothing else.

Hes ok in school - but he just doesnt use the toilet - which is not reallty a solution but hes happy to just go with it. (although in the past we have caught him taking anti diarhoea tables out of the cupboard to stop himsef needing loo at school - that wont end well with everyday use of course).

It's good that he's willing to go to appointments as some sufferers don't feel motivated or able to do so. 

Poor kid, taking anti-diarrhoeals to get through a school day.

 

10 hours ago, paulfoel said:

We just don't know what to do to encourage him....

Make sure he knows you're on his side. Explain to him how important it is that he engages in therapy and limit computer time but don't punish him if he feels unable to complete it. Keep conversation open and ask him how he's coping and what you can do to help. 

[Lost_in_a_Dark_Maze]

Totally agree with BelAnna and Lostinme. Also, just to add, be aware that his time on the computer is probably the only relief your son gets from the constant anxiety. And having Aspergers will make change seem even more scary for him.

[paulfoel]

11 hours ago, lostinme said:

Hi paulfoel,

I totally understand and guess at times it can be quite frustrating. However I think it varies a lot between each child, some fourteen year olds are quite mature and can readily deal with their own responsibilities, but some children develop these skills at a later age. Also at this age a lot of teenagers have no sense of values, I don’t think it’s through ignorance, more they don’t understand the importance of how much things cost, they only start to realise this when they start earning their own money and spending and saving themselves. Maybe you could set a time when you are altogether, such as teatime? and get him use to taking his tablet at this time. This will hopefully over time learn him some responsibility and get him use to taking it. 

Im afraid to say a positive approach that we will give you xyz won’t make any difference when he’s trying to do therapy, it’s very difficult especially in the early stages and very frightening. If someone said to me I’d give you a million pound if you can get over this in six months time, it wouldn’t make any difference. With what I can see he as only been with camhs for a short period of time, it takes time to start to view and percieve his thoughts differently through the cognitive side of things and it takes time to begin to make changes to the behavioural side of things also. There will be weeks where he feels unable to achieve any tasks given even through the later stages of therapy, it takes extreme courage to do so. If it was so easy, if we could all just avoid doing one compulsion a week, we would all be better in no time at all, sadly it’s not so easy. 

The best positive approach for your son is to praise him for every baby step he takes no matter how small, be there for him when he falls and encourage, love and support him every single day, even on bad days. Also making an heirachy from the least anxiety provoking one, to the worst, so when he starts working through therapy he starts on the easiest one first. When he achieves this and it no longer causes him anxiety or upset move on to the next one and so on, it does take time and it’s something that won’t happen overnight. I’ve been doing cbt for two years now and I’ve still a way to go, but everyone varies considerably depending on how severe their OCD is, how many compulsions they do and how it impacts on their lives, it can take anything from 6 months/ 1 yr/ 2 yr etc I’m afriad it’s something you can’t put a time limit on. 

 

 

 

 

Problem is in a year I'd say he has made ZERO effort AT ALL. He just cannot be bothered and would rather play computer games all day long.

I know hes ill but its difficult to maintain a sense of trying to help him when he blatantly ignores everything his parents and professionals say to him. It gets to the point where he just does what he wants, carries on as before and doesnt give a monkeys.

See my other post. Hes getting increasingly violent too. After last time, he swore blind he'd change and it was discussed in counselling. BUT I know full well hes not made any attempts. Especially after last night where his fists were swinging at me (I've got marks on my face today). All because he got told off about something - not that bad.

Hes sorry now but has made no attempt to change or follow advice from counsellor. I'm running out of sympathy to be honest. I

[paulfoel]

11 hours ago, BelAnna said:

You obviously love your son and it's great that you've put so much effort, money and time into trying to help him to get better. I wonder though if you're quite resentful and annoyed with your son for the effect his condition has on the family.

Please keep in mind that he is only 14, he's just a kid so he might really forget to take his medication- it's probably best to supervise him with them. It's not the kind of thing to feel annoyed with him about. Another possibility is that he does not feel very good on the medication but doesn't feel able to express this because he knows that it's supposed to be helping and that you're very invested in it working.

Are you sure? I am also currently in CBT; my therapist pushes me to do homework- sometimes I haven't managed it because my anxiety is too great or because there are other stresses in my life that make it hard for me to cope with the added anxiety of resisting a compulsion. Your son is so young that he probably has an even harder time rationalising his anxiety. 

This ^^ actually demonstrates that he is probably finding the tasks too tricky- if he cannot complete tasks despite an incentive to do so.

 

Honestly I wouldn't be so sure- he will probably feel incredibly anxious that he won't have sole use of one bathroom. He might feel much more stressed out with having to share a bathroom and he's likely to react by extending his bathroom visits. 

Re. Public toilets I can imagine both he and you really have had a nightmare of a time with them. He will be feeling absolutely terrified, surrounded by a mist of chemicals and feeling as though he has lost control. 

I bet he was really embarrassed about blocking the toilet on the plane, as were you.

It's good that he's willing to go to appointments as some sufferers don't feel motivated or able to do so. 

Poor kid, taking anti-diarrhoeals to get through a school day.

 

Make sure he knows you're on his side. Explain to him how important it is that he engages in therapy and limit computer time but don't punish him if he feels unable to complete it. Keep conversation open and ask him how he's coping and what you can do to help. 

 

To be honest, we've tried it all. No matter what happens he just cannot be bothered. He gets cut so much slack its unbelievable but all we get is the same time and time again.

It came to a head last night again where he assaulted me (Again). This time pretty bad. Same old same old.

Yes, of course I'm not happy hes the way he is. But yes I do love him and care about him - I wouldnt be wasting my time on here otherwise!. But yes I am resentful that hes been given EVERY HELP POSSIBLE by myself, his mother and the professionals and he still cannot be bothered. I can see where this is going, due to his violence, and it will involve a break up of the family.

 

[paulfoel]

4 hours ago, Lost_in_a_Dark_Maze said:

Totally agree with BelAnna and Lostinme. Also, just to add, be aware that his time on the computer is probably the only relief your son gets from the constant anxiety. And having Aspergers will make change seem even more scary for him.

Of course, and he has plenty of time. We cut him loads of slack. But we still expect a few things - homework gets done, he "tries" to implement some of the recommendations from the counsellor.

Latest episode - counsellor asked him to print out sheets and get a timer for the bathroom.

3 days it took him to print out after we asked him to do, 3 more days to take from kitchen to bathroom, 4 more days to selotape to wall. Over a week now, timer is there, sheet not even started to be filled in.

We found out a few weeks ago he hadnt taken his meds for 3-4 weeks. Didn't even shout at him just said OK well we'll keep them downstairs and you can take at 10pm when you go to bed. We had ONE night out - nanna was at home and he forgot to take his tab.

Problem is he doesnt see this as important at all. Important is playing computer games. His OCD/compulsions are an inconvenience to him, thats all and no-one else matters.

[lostinme]

11 hours ago, paulfoel said:

 

Problem is in a year I'd say he has made ZERO effort AT ALL. He just cannot be bothered and would rather play computer games all day long.

I know hes ill but its difficult to maintain a sense of trying to help him when he blatantly ignores everything his parents and professionals say to him. It gets to the point where he just does what he wants, carries on as before and doesnt give a monkeys.

See my other post. Hes getting increasingly violent too. After last time, he swore blind he'd change and it was discussed in counselling. BUT I know full well hes not made any attempts. Especially after last night where his fists were swinging at me (I've got marks on my face today). All because he got told off about something - not that bad.

Hes sorry now but has made no attempt to change or follow advice from counsellor. I'm running out of sympathy to be honest. I

The thing is paulfoel, he might have been in therapy for a year, but it depends on what therapy? He needs to be under a professional OCD CBT therapist to even begin to make progress, talking therapy is not the answer. Is he having CBT at Cahms and how many sessions as he had so far? 

Obviously I don’t know your son and can only answer as a sufferer myself and how I see it from a sufferers point of view, personally I doubt that he is purposely ignoring any advice given, my thinking is he is possibly a scared young boy and doesn’t know where to start? He carries on like before because he is too afraid to make changes and feels compelled to carry out his compulsions. This condition is a very sad, scary and lonely life especially for the sufferer who doesn’t really know what’s happening to them or even understand it. 

If he as both aspergers as well as OCD then things are going to be even more difficult for him. I’m thinking may be his anger issues can be down to frustration, fear etc being afraid of what’s happening to him and not being able to control it?  It’s difficult to say from an outsiders point. You also mentioned counsellor, is this for his anger issues? 

[paulfoel]

On 5/4/2018 at 20:23, lostinme said:

The thing is paulfoel, he might have been in therapy for a year, but it depends on what therapy? He needs to be under a professional OCD CBT therapist to even begin to make progress, talking therapy is not the answer. Is he having CBT at Cahms and how many sessions as he had so far? 

Obviously I don’t know your son and can only answer as a sufferer myself and how I see it from a sufferers point of view, personally I doubt that he is purposely ignoring any advice given, my thinking is he is possibly a scared young boy and doesn’t know where to start? He carries on like before because he is too afraid to make changes and feels compelled to carry out his compulsions. This condition is a very sad, scary and lonely life especially for the sufferer who doesn’t really know what’s happening to them or even understand it. 

If he as both aspergers as well as OCD then things are going to be even more difficult for him. I’m thinking may be his anger issues can be down to frustration, fear etc being afraid of what’s happening to him and not being able to control it?  It’s difficult to say from an outsiders point. You also mentioned counsellor, is this for his anger issues? 

I can see that - but it can't carry on as it is. Hes getting increasing violent and it WILL end up with him being removed from the  home for everyones safety.

After the latest incident we took away his PC, mobile, etc. When we do this his behaviour improves dramatically. We sat him down explained that he needed to try to do the thing the counsellor said, talk to us if he had issues, etc. We bought him a book on aspergers for teems - gently asked him to take a look because it might help. Thought no PC distraction he might finally do it - we've found with the PC it takes all his attention so you've got no chance.

In 4 days, despite a few gentle reminders, hes done nothing. The book has been left on the coffee. Nothing has been done. Hes been well behaved but nothing has changed - if we give him his PC back it'll be exactly as before and he'll be swinging his fists at me again.

We've sat him down and said we'll do whatever we can to help him. But, he really just cannot be bothered. I don't know what to do - not being spiteful but he can't have his PC back and things go back as they were. I know hes got "issues" but how do we get through to him?

Yes hes been doing CBT at CAMHS (3 sessions so far). Before that it was anger management with a private counsellor. All completely pointless because he just goes with the flow, comes home and carries on as normal. We've had multiple counsellors tell us they can't help him because he is just not willing to engage at all.

[Wonderer]

Hi, 3 cbt sessions is nothing, my son is only starting ERP next week and he’s been in CAMHS for a year, that’s not their fault, they just wait until the child is in such a place that they will cope with the therapy ahead, the previous sessions have still been cbt but weren’t touching the OCD just anxiety management and education on OCD and how it works. As a sufferer myself I found that I didn’t feel better til around 14 sessions and even then I struggled for months after that and had to apply my own therapy, unfortunately OCD is a severe mental illness and things will take time, a very long time somethings. I feel so sorry for young kids going through this because the illness feels like hell on earth and I wouldn’t wish it on my worst enemy.x

[lostinme]

21 hours ago, paulfoel said:

I can see that - but it can't carry on as it is. Hes getting increasing violent and it WILL end up with him being removed from the  home for everyones safety.

After the latest incident we took away his PC, mobile, etc. When we do this his behaviour improves dramatically. We sat him down explained that he needed to try to do the thing the counsellor said, talk to us if he had issues, etc. We bought him a book on aspergers for teems - gently asked him to take a look because it might help. Thought no PC distraction he might finally do it - we've found with the PC it takes all his attention so you've got no chance.

In 4 days, despite a few gentle reminders, hes done nothing. The book has been left on the coffee. Nothing has been done. Hes been well behaved but nothing has changed - if we give him his PC back it'll be exactly as before and he'll be swinging his fists at me again.

We've sat him down and said we'll do whatever we can to help him. But, he really just cannot be bothered. I don't know what to do - not being spiteful but he can't have his PC back and things go back as they were. I know hes got "issues" but how do we get through to him?

Yes hes been doing CBT at CAMHS (3 sessions so far). Before that it was anger management with a private counsellor. All completely pointless because he just goes with the flow, comes home and carries on as normal. We've had multiple counsellors tell us they can't help him because he is just not willing to engage at all.

I think the most important thing at the moment is a good support structure for your son. I don’t think for one minute with what you’ve explained that he is being violent because he likes tpo. I think it’s more to do with the fact that he is a frightened frustrated young man that doesn’t know how to express his inner emotions. Having aspergers and OCD together can be very tiring and very frustrating as well as frightening for the sufferer. 

Personally I wouldn’t say he has got issues, he has a mental health disorder and they are different. I understand you have spent an awful lot of money to help your son, but I don’t think anger management with a counsellor is the answer, he needs to be seen by someone who specialises in CBT for Aspergers as well as OCD for the therapy to be affective. 

It’s a good thing that you have finally managed to get him in into CAMHS, hopefully in time it will prove helpful, but it’s really early days and only 3 sessions so far, it’s no wonder he hasn’t made progress yet. It takes time, he hasn’t even had  the chance to start to understand it, never mind challenge it, very well explained by Wonderer in her post. 

Depending on what counsellor he has already seen, depends a lot on what progress he makes 

 

[Orwell1984]

Hi Paul- I would contact the national autistic society if I were you and get some more advice and signposting from them. It looks like ASD is the root cause of everything. If your son can learn how to deal with life and understand it better from ASD coaching then the OCD, fists etc will be less problematic. I think so anyway. Again, not that I know much about the various areas of autism, a lot of what you are saying looks like 'oppositional defiant disorder' which is autism under another name https://www.dealwithautism.com/what-is-oppositional-defiant-disorder/

[paulfoel]

2 hours ago, lostinme said:

I think the most important thing at the moment is a good support structure for your son. I don’t think for one minute with what you’ve explained that he is being violent because he likes tpo. I think it’s more to do with the fact that he is a frightened frustrated young man that doesn’t know how to express his inner emotions. Having aspergers and OCD together can be very tiring and very frustrating as well as frightening for the sufferer. 

Personally I wouldn’t say he has got issues, he has a mental health disorder and they are different. I understand you have spent an awful lot of money to help your son, but I don’t think anger management with a counsellor is the answer, he needs to be seen by someone who specialises in CBT for Aspergers as well as OCD for the therapy to be affective. 

It’s a good thing that you have finally managed to get him in into CAMHS, hopefully in time it will prove helpful, but it’s really early days and only 3 sessions so far, it’s no wonder he hasn’t made progress yet. It takes time, he hasn’t even had  the chance to start to understand it, never mind challenge it, very well explained by Wonderer in her post. 

Depending on what counsellor he has already seen, depends a lot on what progress he makes 

 

I guess. Early days yet. Yes I know its a mental disorder (have vast personal experience of that) so wasn't making light of it by calling them "issues". 15-20 years of anxiety/depression for me and I'd sometimes describe myself as having "issues". 

This is just what the counsellor is also telling me that he is not trying at all. I know everyone is different and hes a kid but I was probably the opposite - I wanted EVERYTHING to try and get better.

Not quite sure why you mentioned the money again - thats a bit unfair. Please don't start on the "parent spent money and expect results - havent got a clue". It really is unfair when others suggest that.

Yes his counsellor is mainly CBT for OCD. Aspergers diagnosis we are still waiting for - good old NHS!

"In time" Hmmm. In an ideal world yes we could be patient. BUT like I said, I KNOW its going to come to a head WAY BEFORE THAT!!!! 

Yes I might come across as very frustrated and angry but there is no-one to help. CAMHS are pretty useless - last time he was violent they just said to phone the police. Do you really think I want to see my teenage son arrested and placed in the cells or something? That's really not going to help anyone least of all him. Even more so, is him assaulting a member of the family and causing real harm (remember he has a 4 year old sister) - what happens then? Im sure that would end up becoming a life changing event for all involved and not for the best and not for him certainly.

So yes I'm angry when people say "give it time". WE DON'T HAVE TIME. I tell CAMHS I tell the GP. No-one listens or cares.

And yes I'm frustrated when my teenage son one day is throwing fists at me, and the next day is completely ignoring any attempts to help him. Like I said, I know he has difficulty and is scared but I know the road this going down. 

Sorry for the rant but I really am looking to avert what is rapidly becoming a massive issue....

 

 

[lostinme]

12 hours ago, paulfoel said:

I guess. Early days yet. Yes I know its a mental disorder (have vast personal experience of that) so wasn't making light of it by calling them "issues". 15-20 years of anxiety/depression for me and I'd sometimes describe myself as having "issues". 

This is just what the counsellor is also telling me that he is not trying at all. I know everyone is different and hes a kid but I was probably the opposite - I wanted EVERYTHING to try and get better.

Not quite sure why you mentioned the money again - thats a bit unfair. Please don't start on the "parent spent money and expect results - havent got a clue". It really is unfair when others suggest that.

Yes his counsellor is mainly CBT for OCD. Aspergers diagnosis we are still waiting for - good old NHS!

"In time" Hmmm. In an ideal world yes we could be patient. BUT like I said, I KNOW its going to come to a head WAY BEFORE THAT!!!! 

Yes I might come across as very frustrated and angry but there is no-one to help. CAMHS are pretty useless - last time he was violent they just said to phone the police. Do you really think I want to see my teenage son arrested and placed in the cells or something? That's really not going to help anyone least of all him. Even more so, is him assaulting a member of the family and causing real harm (remember he has a 4 year old sister) - what happens then? Im sure that would end up becoming a life changing event for all involved and not for the best and not for him certainly.

So yes I'm angry when people say "give it time". WE DON'T HAVE TIME. I tell CAMHS I tell the GP. No-one listens or cares.

And yes I'm frustrated when my teenage son one day is throwing fists at me, and the next day is completely ignoring any attempts to help him. Like I said, I know he has difficulty and is scared but I know the road this going down. 

Sorry for the rant but I really am looking to avert what is rapidly becoming a massive issue....

 

 

I’m sorry if my post as caused you upset. That wasn’t my intentions at all, that is the last thing I wanted to do.

I was offering you help, support and advice from a suffferers point of view. With the hope that this will help you to understand why your son may not be able to start connecting with therapy, maybe to soon, the wrong therapist, afraid, there could be all sorts of reasons behind this. Not everyone takes to therapy straightaway for a number of reasons, it doesn’t mean they don’t want to, it’s usually because they are to afraid to?

 I mentioned the money out of kindness and nothing else, I didn’t want to see you forking out such an expense on a counsellor that may not be the right one for your son?  that is all.

I’m sorry that things are so bad and that’s why I was offering some advice with the hope that the more understanding you have regarding this the better. 

Sorry for any upset caused, I will refrain from answering your posts. 

Hope you manage to get things sorted soon for your son and your family, only best wishes intended, lost 

 

[paulfoel]

1 hour ago, lostinme said:

I’m sorry if my post as caused you upset. That wasn’t my intentions at all, that is the last thing I wanted to do.

I was offering you help, support and advice from a suffferers point of view. With the hope that this will help you to understand why your son may not be able to start connecting with therapy, maybe to soon, the wrong therapist, afraid, there could be all sorts of reasons behind this. Not everyone takes to therapy straightaway for a number of reasons, it doesn’t mean they don’t want to, it’s usually because they are to afraid to?

 I mentioned the money out of kindness and nothing else, I didn’t want to see you forking out such an expense on a counsellor that may not be the right one for your son?  that is all.

I’m sorry that things are so bad and that’s why I was offering some advice with the hope that the more understanding you have regarding this the better. 

Sorry for any upset caused, I will refrain from answering your posts. 

Hope you manage to get things sorted soon for your son and your family, only best wishes intended, lost 

 

No Lost - please accept my apology. I know you're trying to help.

No excuses but, as you can imagine, its a very hard time for us at the moment, so things really are getting on top of me. :-(

Please don't feel like you've got to apologise or stop posting.

[paulfoel]

LOST - looking for how to deal with this at the moment. Been trying to contact CAMHS today and also Young Minds helpline (impossible to get throuigh). Next it'll be autism helpline.

Do you mind if I ask you a question? 

 

Have you ever had any compulsions or behaviours that had a really serious negative effect on others? Sort of like my son with some of his violent behaviour. I get that when your wrapped up in mental illness inc OCD/Aspergers  etc you see things differently. Others can see that its got to change but you can't see it I guess. Is this right?

If you've ever had this, is there anything that worked that a family member/parent/friend/counsellor said or did that made any difference to you? Just so I can try a different approach because, as I've said, the situation is going downhill rapidly.

[Lost_in_a_Dark_Maze]

Hello,

I know I'm the wrong Lost, but I thought I'd reply anyway, I hope you don't mind. 

When I was 13, there was a period where I behaved aggressively and at times violently towards my mother. I am deeply ashamed of this, but at the time I was in such a state with my OCD and barely sleeping, and the fear consumed me so that I wasn't thinking of anything or anybody else. For me, it felt as if performing whatever compulsion it was (cleaning, checking etc.) was the most important thing in the world - it genuinely felt like a matter of life and death. If, say, my mum wouldn't give me the cleaning product I needed, it felt as if she didn't understand or care - that she had the power to solve the problem and stop my terror, but wouldn't. I suppose I resorted to the only method that would get me what I thought was necessary. My fear was of me or my family getting ill and dying.

I don't remember much about that time or what I did, but I know it was taking medication (fluoxetine in my case) that calmed me down most. Incidentally, I have wondered recently if I may have undiagnosed Aspergers.

I'll leave it there for now, but I can write more if you'd like.

Please don't let anybody make you feel like a bad parent. I know my mum did/does, but it's an illness like any other and not your fault. You are doing your best in extremely challenging circumstances, and you have your little girl to think of too. It's only natural that you feel frustrated and angry. It sounds as if you are being badly let down by the mental health services.

Edited May 8, 2018 by Lost_in_a_Dark_Maze

[paulfoel]

His behaviour is getting worse. Yesterday he sneeked his mobile phone out that we;d taken off him and I caught him on it at 1am. Today caught him on his PC when hes knows hes banned from it. Looks like this is whats been happening - when we go out hes on his PC. Now we have no choice but to physically remove the items.

Tonight then hes kicked off big time - shouting, screaming, etc.  No provocation nothing just did not like the answer I gave him when I said no he can't have his PC back just yet. I praised him for making some effort (although I know hes made not much effort) but told him he needed to try and follow up on some of the things counsellor had told him and that he didn't need any more distractions.

Its as if 5 days ago when he punched me in the face didnt happen. His attitude is all "its so unfair you're all picking on me and always accuse me of lying". Pointed out that he'd gone behind out back but he just grunts and can't explain that.

At the moment, we just can't seem to get through to him. Strange thing is he has NO problems at all at school - he managed just fine. We've mentioned in the past to his teachers and they look at us as if we're talking about a different kid. Really don't understand this at all how school doesn't have a problem but at home hes a nightmare.

He just is not interested. Book I bought him remains unread. Hes not interested in going on forums for teens with Aspergers etc. Not at all.

Is this still OCD/Aspergers especially showing no signs at all at school or are we seeing elements of bad behaviour here also?

 

[paulfoel]

7 hours ago, Lost_in_a_Dark_Maze said:

Hello,

I know I'm the wrong Lost, but I thought I'd reply anyway, I hope you don't mind. 

When I was 13, there was a period where I behaved aggressively and at times violently towards my mother. I am deeply ashamed of this, but at the time I was in such a state with my OCD and barely sleeping, and the fear consumed me so that I wasn't thinking of anything or anybody else. For me, it felt as if performing whatever compulsion it was (cleaning, checking etc.) was the most important thing in the world - it genuinely felt like a matter of life and death. If, say, my mum wouldn't give me the cleaning product I needed, it felt as if she didn't understand or care - that she had the power to solve the problem and stop my terror, but wouldn't. I suppose I resorted to the only method that would get me what I thought was necessary. My fear was of me or my family getting ill and dying.

I don't remember much about that time or what I did, but I know it was taking medication (fluoxetine in my case) that calmed me down most. Incidentally, I have wondered recently if I may have undiagnosed Aspergers.

I'll leave it there for now, but I can write more if you'd like.

Please don't let anybody make you feel like a bad parent. I know my mum did/does, but it's an illness like any other and not your fault. You are doing your best in extremely challenging circumstances, and you have your little girl to think of too. It's only natural that you feel frustrated and angry. It sounds as if you are being badly let down by the mental health services.

My son seems different (to me at least anyway).

Hes got his compulsions etc  but he doesn't seem to get stressed about it at all. He just seems to accept it as "oh well this is the way it is then". He will literally spend hours playing PC games, go to the bathroom/shower for an hour, then back on his PC. Easy as pie. At home hes in the comfort zone because he can do this.

He does not get stressed about it, he does not have any fears. Its just the way things need to be done in his head. (This is the counsellor telling us - shes explored this with him).

What he will not do is anything else. Not because it stresses him but because he can't be bothered (his words). Its almost as if you'd come back in 20 years time, and he'd still be doing the same day in day out. As far as hes concerned thats it.

[Orwell1984]

I think you need to pay for your son to get a private ASD assessment which will be a better use of your financial resources and which will get your son quicker access to different forms of help for adolescents on the spectrum.  The NHS waiting list is too long for remedying his condition which as you say is deteriorating rapidly.

 

[Lost_in_a_Dark_Maze]

It is very common with OCD for people to behave very differently at home. My teachers wouldn't have believed how I was either. I could hold it together and be almost normal at school, but meltdown when I got home.

I think you said your son avoids using the toilet at school? I did that too.

I think I read somewhere that those with Aspergers have difficulty showing their emotions. I am wondering if this could be why it seems as if he doesn't care? Also with Aspergers is the fear of change, and a great need for routine.

I'm not saying she's wrong, as obviously I don't know, but I wouldn't necessarily believe everything the counsellor says. Maybe your son isn't being honest with her about how he feels. It can be very embarrassing to talk about your fears, especially for a teenage boy, I'd imagine!

Fear/anxiety can be expressed as anger.

[paulfoel]

10 hours ago, Orwell1984 said:

I think you need to pay for your son to get a private ASD assessment which will be a better use of your financial resources and which will get your son quicker access to different forms of help for adolescents on the spectrum.  The NHS waiting list is too long for remedying his condition which as you say is deteriorating rapidly.

 

Yes it is an option. Last time I looked it was near enough £1000 for this though which is a lot.

If he does get diagnosed what would change though? I don't want to pay £1000 just to get a label on it.

Yes nightmare getting it done on the NHS. CAMHS are dealing with OCD but the Aspergers is different they say. Even school is dragging its feet sending the forms in.

[paulfoel]

9 hours ago, Lost_in_a_Dark_Maze said:

It is very common with OCD for people to behave very differently at home. My teachers wouldn't have believed how I was either. I could hold it together and be almost normal at school, but meltdown when I got home.

I think you said your son avoids using the toilet at school? I did that too.

I think I read somewhere that those with Aspergers have difficulty showing their emotions. I am wondering if this could be why it seems as if he doesn't care? Also with Aspergers is the fear of change, and a great need for routine.

I'm not saying she's wrong, as obviously I don't know, but I wouldn't necessarily believe everything the counsellor says. Maybe your son isn't being honest with her about how he feels. It can be very embarrassing to talk about your fears, especially for a teenage boy, I'd imagine!

Fear/anxiety can be expressed as anger.

Yes I've since read about "masking". Seems to make sense - thats exactly like him.

I don't know about not showing emotions. He gets angry VERY quickly. He was very upset after the last outbreak as well.

Trouble is its literally days later and he thinks it all forgotten about. I know he needs routine but I just wish I could get through to him to at least think about things a little and understand how things are.

I've seen loads of kids forums for ASD etc but hes just not interested. I dont understand that. Surely thats a safe way of speaking to other people with no need for face to face. Its almost sometimes as if hes denying there is a problem.

[Wonderer]

Hey Paul, I just wanted to say, I totally get ur frustration, as a parent of a child with both Aspergers and OCD myself I too get extremely frustrated at times, the difference between u and I is that I also suffer with OCD so in a way I totally get it 109% because I’ve been there, I don’t think anyone fully understands the disorder unless they’ve suffered themselves and while you can research and listen to others, it isn’t the same as totally getting the actual hellish feelings that OCD brings. That being said, even I will get impatient at times, I think to myself I’ve explained what he needs to do, he has a therapist who’s telling Him what he needs to do and he’s just not doing it...then I remember how difficult it was for me, as an adult to implement my therapy and what an excruciatingly painful experience it was and sometimes still is. Recently I’ve noticed a massive improvement in my son, and I was pretty sure he was getting a handle on things, but last night he allowed me to read a diary entry and my heart broke in pieces, as he explained his own frustrations at himself despite knowing what to do he explained it’s too hard and that he doesn’t trust his own brain, that made me so sad, because outwardly at the moment u would hardly know he’s struggling compared to a few months back when everything was so obvious on the outside. Frustration, anger and impatience are natural emotions for us as parents in our situation, the best advice I can give around these feelings is to make sure you and ur wife take time to yourselves to go out and relax from time to time, and to maybe take ur daughter out for some quality time without your son, be kind to yourselves and try and schedule as much time out as u can.even if it’s juts shutting yourself into your bedroom and having a cup a quiet cup of tea. It’s extremely difficult for the family too. Everyone is affected in one way or another. One of my major compulsions was avoidance, and a couple of years back this affected my family because I became agoraphobic and wouldn’t leave the house, so family days out became non existent and I spent an entire week of a holiday not leaving the apartment while my partner took our kids out everyday to do fun things, so while I wasn’t violent or abusive I certainly negatively impacted on my family, it wasn’t too long before I realised this though and began fighting it and slowly but surely got things back to normal, but I mostly did if for my kids, there was no bigger motivation for me. I think if I had of been younger without kids then I could’ve stayed that way as nothing would motivate me as much as they did.xx 

[lostinme]

23 hours ago, paulfoel said:

Have you ever had any compulsions or behaviours that had a really serious negative effect on others? Sort of like my son with some of his violent behaviour. I get that when your wrapped up in mental illness inc OCD/Aspergers  etc you see things differently. Others can see that its got to change but you can't see it I guess. Is this right?

If you've ever had this, is there anything that worked that a family member/parent/friend/counsellor said or did that made any difference to you? Just so I can try a different approach because, as I've said, the situation is going downhill rapidly.

I think all OCD issues have a negative affect on others as well as the sufferer, not only does it upset their lives it often causes upsets for their surrounding family too, even though not intensionally. The thing is you can’t really see it’s got to change at this stage, because all you can see is your own damaged mind and all you want is for it to just stop and wake up tomorrow feeling normal without these dreaded thoughts and the things you just feel so compelled to do. To us as a sufferer we don’t see no way out at this time, we just feel crazy and someone of damaged mind and don’t see no end to this dreaded nightmare. The behaviours are a must in the mind of the sufferer regardless of any other surrounding upsets it may cause, it’s not that they want to do it, it’s more a feeling they have to do it. Their behaviours are not intentional by any means it’s a case that the need to do these things are stronger than any other surrounding issues going on around them. It’s difficult to explain, but I hope this explains it a little better. 

I am from a family of 7 children, with one bathroom and one toilet, so as you can guess at times there was issues. Things did break out into arguments and upsets and at times, rather nasty sometimes too, but not violent( but I don’t personally suffer with Aspergers and this makes a big difference) but saying that my sister as two sons that do and I’ve spent a lot of time around them throughout their lives so I’ve got a fair bit of knowledge regarding it. It was only when they realised that i had a problem that things settled down and they became more understanding and supportive and the arguments subsided. After this, if upset did occur because of my behaviours and I got disturbed doing my compulsions etc, my mum would just say time out, not defend one or the other, even if it was her too and we would go to our rooms to calm down and discuss and talk things through later when things had settled down, this worked a treat and things was back to calm. I’m not sure if it’s the same for you? And why the arguments break out? But mine broke out usually when I was confronted over my behavioural problems and my disorder and it interfering and having an impact with others in the house hold. Usually it would break out from such statements as why don’t you just stop it, you don’t have to do it etc. Or I would be disturbed doing my compulsion etc, this would make matters much worse for me because I’d get more anxious and then I would need to start all over again. Are most of your arguments surrounding his disorder, or his behaviours such as bathroom/ toilet etc that usually cause the arguments? When your son gets violent is it usually escalated by some OCD issue? If when your son shows aggression do you show it back too? this could be the problem why it escalates so bad, he learns from your behaviour too, your teaching him that it’s ok to show aggression when you are having a disagreement. 

 

Obviously I’m older now and a bit more aware of this disorder and quite a good way on my journey towards recovery, however there was still times when the anxiety was so high that if I was disturbed when doing a compulsion arguments would still arise, even though I live alone with my daughter now. I’ve suffered with OCD for 42  years now, since I was 8. Throughout this time I’ve had numerous therapists with no improvement, not because I didn’t engage with the therapist, but more so because of the kind of therapy I received and what knowledge the therapist had regarding OCD and believe me this makes a huge difference. I’m now under a fantastic CBT specialist and for the first time in years I don’t feel like I’m going crazy. I’ve been doing CBT now for over two years, but it took at least three months initially, cognitively, before I started to view things differently ready to try to start to try to tackle behavioural changes. This is why I said it takes time and lots of patience. 

Hope this helps, feel free to ask anything, as I said via PM I’m only trying to be helpful. 

Lost