Cleanliness/contamination

[gingerbreadgirl]

Over the last few months I have been developing an obsession around cleanliness and contamination, which has started to get a bit out of hand of late. 

It's is not cleanliness per se which I am bothered by (having never been particularly bothered by this kind of thing) but whether I am doing the right thing by my partner, who has got quite strong issues around cleaning and always has done.  When we first moved in together (10+ years ago) we agreed some rules we would both follow.  Over the years I have agreed to some extra rules and refused some others.  We have bickered about it from time to time but it's only in the last year or so it has developed into a real issue for me.  Since this relapse I regulaly monitor what I am doing, whether it would pass muster with my partner, and I've realised that over the years I have unthinkingly been doing a lot of things which I know she wouldn't like.  In the past I haven't bothered with this, on the grounds that it's my house too and I shouldn't have to monitor my actions like this.  (My partner agrees by the way, she doesn't think I should do this.) I have started doing more and more to "put right" unclean things I have done, and if I can't "put it right" then I feel like I have to confess it.  I have resisted this at times but it feels like I am deliberately doing something wrong. This is becoming a real issue of late and I try to avoid doing certain things that I never had an issue with before because I'm worried I will do something I "have to" confess.

I have spoken to my partner and she is very supportive of me not giving into these urges, in theory.  However, in practice her perspective on cleanliness is very skewed and she thinks a lot of these things I'm suddenly obsessing over are actually common sense (they're not!) and I should have been doing them anyway.  This really feeds my OCD as it makes me feel my constant monitoring is justified.

Anyway I know I really need to challenge this but every time I try and do ERP I end up caving and confessing because it feels like I am deliberately doing something my partner would hate.  I have even started internalising some of her feelings around it so I can feel like something is contaminated when I never did before.  I think it's OK that I did these things unthinkingly before - but it's very different choosing to do them deliberately.  It's my partner's house as well as mine, afterall.

BTW I know this stuff around cleanliness isn't rational and my partner is very irrational about cleaning (which I tell her all the time and she agrees!) I'm not worried that there is a rational basis to it.  It's more I'm worried about knowingly leaving something in a way that would upset my partner (rational or not) and what this means about me as a person/wife etc.

Any tips for how I can approach this?

[Avo]

Hi GBG,

I think you sum it up well when you say the following

6 hours ago, gingerbreadgirl said:

Since this relapse I regulaly monitor what I am doing, whether it would pass muster with my partner, and I've realised that over the years I have unthinkingly been doing a lot of things which I know she wouldn't like.  In the past I haven't bothered with this, on the grounds that it's my house too and I shouldn't have to monitor my actions like this.  (My partner agrees by the way, she doesn't think I should do this.) I have started doing more and more to "put right" unclean things I have done, and if I can't "put it right" then I feel like I have to confess it.  I have resisted this at times but it feels like I am deliberately doing something wrong. This is becoming a real issue of late and I try to avoid doing certain things that I never had an issue with before because I'm worried I will do something I "have to" confess.

Things that were not an issue have become one, as you say its your house as much as your partners. You are not being malicious by not doing some things, it was you unthinkingly doing things. You shouldn't have to monitor your every move and action, and to be fair to your partner she seems to acknowledge this too.

I am sure I unthinkingly do things that annoy the heck out of my wife - in fact I know I do she tells me I have a blind spot for the domestic chores which need doing. To a point I have tried to be a bit more considerate. She is the type of person who draws up lists of things to do as it helps her feel less overwhelmed by the tasks to do if she writes them down. 

I have hardly ever written a list in my life, I just don't think that way, I think somewhere in the middle is the right balance - I have tried to be more aware of things I do to help my wife feel less stressed, (often basics like making the bed in a morning or taking clothes up the stairs to put away if there is a clean pile downstairs -  yes believe it or not I over looked these things) but I do draw a line on things I feel are low priority my wife seems to be beholden to her list sometimes and as her lists are long and replenish themselves almost daily. 

Your and your partner are equal, and its a case of compromising. You seem to have become hyper aware of some actions almost looking out for whatever may not meet approval with your partner also - confessing is a compulsion I have/ am prone to. It just strengthens to false belief that we have to confess as we know its a vicious cycle, once you start to confess you feel the need to do it more and more. 

Attempt to stop the confessing, it will give you short term relief but will certainly lead to more confessing In the future, its easier said than done I know but stopping confessing will help. It will also take away from the false belief and 'importance' that you give to what are almost certainly minor things which people without OCD would dismiss without further thought. 

In terms of what it means about you as a person/wife - it means you are human with your own mind and opinions. It's important to retain your own personality and opinions and that's as it should be. 

 

[gingerbreadgirl]

Hi Avo,

Thank you so much for your thoughtful reply.

I definitely agree that doing something unthinkingly is not malicious.  I guess my issue is that I can no longer claim these things are unthinking, because now I've realised them, and so if I continue doing them it is in full knowledge.  I keep realising more and more things like this.  And continuing doing them does feel kind of malicious because they're not unthinking anymore.  But this is creating a vicious circle where I am finding more and more things of this nature, and doing simple tasks now seems like a minefield.  I know this is OCD and I need to tackle it.  But ERP seems to involve doing something like this which I know my partner would hate, and doing so deliberately, which I am finding hard to get my head around.  Sometimes I wish my brain would just shut the hell up!

43 minutes ago, Avo said:

Attempt to stop the confessing, it will give you short term relief but will certainly lead to more confessing In the future, its easier said than done I know but stopping confessing will help.

This is so true and I have found confessing to be the most self-perpetuating compulsion, if you do it even once it becomes impossible to stop.

Can I ask - if you get the urge to confess to your wife and you don't give into it, does the urge go away? Do you eventually feel OK about not having confessed? Have you done any cognitive work around this i.e. why you feel confessing "solves" things?

Thanks very much, and I hope you are doing OK x

[gingerbreadgirl]

BTW I think your wife and mine would have a lot to talk about haha

[Caramoole]

23 minutes ago, gingerbreadgirl said:

I know this is OCD and I need to tackle it

That's the crux of it GBG.

One of your big problems is that you debate, consider and relate those problems intelligently and eloquently but none-the-less you are almost endlessly ruminating.  This is such an easy trap to fall into under the guise of "research & problem-solving".

You have endless obsessions around your partner, what would please/displease, what's acceptable, confessions etc etc.  In every relationship there are differing standards and needs, these are usually sorted with a few tiffs, a few adjustments but little else...certainly not such soul searching, anxiety and distress.

This is very much a case of "If it feels like OCD it probably is"......and deep down I think you mostly know when it is.....so, it's working at resisting those compulsive urges as they arise and getting through difficult bit.  

Time to try as well not to endlessly think about OCD, what it is, how to cure it, consider all the theories etc etc......within reason of course but I think (albeit understandably) you are spending a huge amount of time putting most of your attention on OCD and it often has the opposite, adverse effect.

[Avo]

Hi GBG,

In terms of confessing to my wife, the urge may be there and it may increase in it's intensity. This is when I have buckled and confessed. In my CBT we looked at my confessing and realised it fed into the whole cycle of needing to confess, it was the fuel I was throwing on the fire to maintain it, the only thing is solved was providing me with a short term fix of reassurance. I could sometimes find myself wanting to confess again a few minutes later on another thing. I also would find myself maybe a few weeks down the line wanting to confess about things I had already confessed - doubting my memory have I confessed on this before? I am sure I have etc etc and I would start ruminating about the subject.

The aim of my CBT around confessing was to see what happened if I didn't confess - what would happen? would the guilt and anxiety get worse? or would it eventually subside if didn't confess? the result was that though my anxiety went high, it did eventually come down and the gradually every time I got the urge to confess it seemed to come with slightly less intensity and importance each time to the point where it didn't feel much of a big deal at all to me, and It helped change my flase mind set that suggested to me I was being a 'good' person by confessing. 

When you say you are now doing things in full knowledge  as opposed to unthinkingly. It seems to me your OCD had latched onto these issues and is making them important. If you try and monitor your every move and action it will only get worse, OCD will find more and more things you feel you have to do and it will get to the stage where it questions literally everything. You will become too restricted by it. 

What I would suggest is the things you did unthinkingly before mean they in your mind were either not wrong or not important enough to worry about. They were minor and you lived quite easily doing them and not feeling guilt. I think the thing may be to see how you go by doing them again? they are only important because you have given meaning to them that wasn't there before. 

To summarise my waffling! confessing is the worst thing you can do, it makes the false belief that you are doing wrong stronger and keeps you trapped in the cycle, adding fuel to the fire.

Hope this makes some sense?  

 

[Avo]

22 minutes ago, gingerbreadgirl said:

BTW I think your wife and mine would have a lot to talk about haha

Yes -- , they could probably relate to similar experiences of living with a partner with OCD. I am sure my ears would burn endlessly . 

[gingerbreadgirl]

11 minutes ago, Avo said:

Hi GBG,

In terms of confessing to my wife, the urge may be there and it may increase in it's intensity. This is when I have buckled and confessed. In my CBT we looked at my confessing and realised it fed into the whole cycle of needing to confess, it was the fuel I was throwing on the fire to maintain it, the only thing is solved was providing me with a short term fix of reassurance. I could sometimes find myself wanting to confess again a few minutes later on another thing. I also would find myself maybe a few weeks down the line wanting to confess about things I had already confessed - doubting my memory have I confessed on this before? I am sure I have etc etc and I would start ruminating about the subject.

The aim of my CBT around confessing was to see what happened if I didn't confess - what would happen? would the guilt and anxiety get worse? or would it eventually subside if didn't confess? the result was that though my anxiety went high, it did eventually come down and the gradually every time I got the urge to confess it seemed to come with slightly less intensity and importance each time to the point where it didn't feel much of a big deal at all to me, and It helped change my flase mind set that suggested to me I was being a 'good' person by confessing. 

When you say you are now doing things in full knowledge  as opposed to unthinkingly. It seems to me your OCD had latched onto these issues and is making them important. If you try and monitor your every move and action it will only get worse, OCD will find more and more things you feel you have to do and it will get to the stage where it questions literally everything. You will become too restricted by it. 

What I would suggest is the things you did unthinkingly before mean they in your mind were either not wrong or not important enough to worry about. They were minor and you lived quite easily doing them and not feeling guilt. I think the thing may be to see how you go by doing them again? they are only important because you have given meaning to them that wasn't there before. 

To summarise my waffling! confessing is the worst thing you can do, it makes the false belief that you are doing wrong stronger and keeps you trapped in the cycle, adding fuel to the fire.

Hope this makes some sense?  

 

Hi Avo,

This post is incredibly helpful, thank you.  I need to definitely see it as an experiment whereby I don't confess and see what happens.  I do try and do that but my anxiety becomes incredibly intense and I generally buckle.  My partner will try and stop me if she thinks I'm about to confess so I've taken to blurting it before she gets chance.  I know I MUST get a handle on this because the confessing has got way out of hand.

I also think you're right that I should do things as I did them before, that I didn't give meaning to them before - and actually this is exactly as my partner advised. She's actually being really good about this because I know in her heart she'd prefer me to sterilise everything in the vicinity haha!

Thank you so much, you've been really helpful x

[Avo]

Hi GBG,

 Its great if your partner has an understanding of OCD and is diplomatic and sensitive enough to realise that OCD is at play even if it maybe goes against their preference. It can be a big boost in our recoveries having that back up.

My wife is quite good too on this to be fair she is quite well versed in OCD and its sneaky ways and can tell when I am trying to confess - though I have taken to just blurting it out to try and bypass this.  I have become quite adept at confessing in a variety of ways over the years. !

Glad I could be of help 

[gingerbreadgirl]

39 minutes ago, Caramoole said:

That's the crux of it GBG.

One of your big problems is that you debate, consider and relate those problems intelligently and eloquently but none-the-less you are almost endlessly ruminating.  This is such an easy trap to fall into under the guise of "research & problem-solving".

You have endless obsessions around your partner, what would please/displease, what's acceptable, confessions etc etc.  In every relationship there are differing standards and needs, these are usually sorted with a few tiffs, a few adjustments but little else...certainly not such soul searching, anxiety and distress.

This is very much a case of "If it feels like OCD it probably is"......and deep down I think you mostly know when it is.....so, it's working at resisting those compulsive urges as they arise and getting through difficult bit.  

Time to try as well not to endlessly think about OCD, what it is, how to cure it, consider all the theories etc etc......within reason of course but I think (albeit understandably) you are spending a huge amount of time putting most of your attention on OCD and it often has the opposite, adverse effect.

I posted a reply to this but seem to have lost it/not posted, sorry Caramoole!!

I know all of what you say is right.  I know there is no new insight/theory/piece of knowledge that will solve this, I just have to make the effort to avoid ruminating every single time.... which I have been really bad at, I know.  The only person keeping this alive is me.  It's funny because the original thing which kicked this relapse off (the whole Harvey Weinstein thing) which worried me sooo much at the time has now been totally relegated... which I know is because I haven't been ruminating on it.

I guess with this I was just hoping for some pointers to deal with the confessing/cleanliness thing but Avo has given me some really good pointers.

Thank you, and I hope you're OK

 

[gingerbreadgirl]

4 minutes ago, Avo said:

Glad I could be of help 

You really have, thanks

[Caramoole]

4 minutes ago, gingerbreadgirl said:

I guess with this I was just hoping for some pointers to deal with the confessing/cleanliness thing but Avo has given me some really good pointers.

He has.....which meant I didn't need to

It's hard grind GBG but the alternative is worse.  Our themes are different but the way our obsessive minds work (not always specifically obvious OCD issues) are very similar.....taks one to know one and all that

Quote

Thank you, and I hope you're OK 

I am Thank You but have been having one of those days where I realise I've actually been ruminating.  Real life problem that I thought I was "thinking about"......it might have started that way but sure as hell I'm ruminating albeit not an obsession...that's what I mean by beware the obsessive mind set.  Kick up own butt was required!!

[gingerbreadgirl]

19 minutes ago, Caramoole said:

It's hard grind GBG but the alternative is worse.  Our themes are different but the way our obsessive minds work (not always specifically obvious OCD issues) are very similar.....taks one to know one and all that

I sometimes think it would be easier if it was a more obvious/common OCD theme.  But then I've had "obvious" themes too and they are just as difficult.  Whatever is happening right now always seems the worst! You're right though that I do just wish it would go away (like any OCD sufferer) but wishing it so much has just had the opposite effect.

19 minutes ago, Caramoole said:

I am Thank You but have been having one of those days where I realise I've actually been ruminating.  Real life problem that I thought I was "thinking about"......it might have started that way but sure as hell I'm ruminating albeit not an obsession...that's what I mean by beware the obsessive mind set.  Kick up own butt was required!!

I'm sorry to hear this.  You are always so wise and helpful to others it is easy to forget you are also a sufferer.  I'm glad you got the kipper out to yourself though

Edited May 12, 2018 by gingerbreadgirl

[taurean]

Some great advice on the thread GBG.

I will just add that I see a parallel here, in one aspect,  with my own problems - OCD making connections. 

It will do this. So you have those connections, all centred around your other half. They seem like different themes - but they are manifestations centred around your other half. 

So, look for the connections - uncloak them - and as Caramoole says, don't connect. 

We need to expect OCD's 'connections' in whatever guise and not connect with them. 

[gingerbreadgirl]

Thank you Roy.  You're so right in that my mind is making connections.  Although actually I don't think the connection is necessarily my partner (although she is a big part of it) - I think the big connection is anything related to "am I a good/moral person?" I need to resist connecting with this question on any level and just leave it unanswered.

Thank you very much as always for your great advice.

Edited May 13, 2018 by gingerbreadgirl