Sex compulsion

[kaheath80]

I’m struggling with this again. I’m stressing out because we didn’t do it last weekend and I feel like it won’t happen next weekend because we’re doing a sponsored run and will be too tired. And then I’ll be on my period. So I feel like we need to do it this week but it’s a really busy week and all the chances are slipping away and it’s making me really anxious. How do I not care about this? It feels like the most important thing in the world and that if we don’t do it we have a bad relationship and will break up.

[gingerbreadgirl]

It feels like the most important thing in the world because you are treating it as the most important thing in the world.  Your brain responds to the things you give significance too.

I'd say that having sex because you feel you have to is not a very conducive environment to having good sex that both of you wants.  How does your partner feel about this compulsion? Is frequent sex actually something you both want or is it just something you do to "prove" your relationship isn't bad?

I think you need to address your core faulty belief that a relationship will fall apart without regular sex.  I think sex between couples varies massively and is not in itself an indicator of how good or happy the relationship is.  Somewhere along the line you have absorbed this belief and you're holding to it rigidly.

[snowbear]

You're giving meaning to the thoughts again Kaheath. 

If we don't do it then it means....' 

It means nothing of the sort. Try to accept the meaning you've been giving it is false and therefore the consequences you fear are just fears, not based on anything real. 

[kaheath80]

Thanks for the replies 

Ive done quite well with most of my compulsions but this one is just so hard. I think because of my BPD, which makes me terrified of being abandoned. I have no idea why my brain has decided sex will stop that happening. Actually no, I do know, it was something I read (as per usual). 

Right now my boss is about to leave the job, which has totally freaked me out because of the BPD and I have noticed in the past that when things like this happen, the compulsion to have sex gets worse because I’m trying to stop anyone else leaving. I just don’t know how to get over it as to me it seems quite logical that if we hardly have sex we’ll drift apart and break up.

[kaheath80]

13 minutes ago, gingerbreadgirl said:

It feels like the most important thing in the world because you are treating it as the most important thing in the world.  Your brain responds to the things you give significance too.

I'd say that having sex because you feel you have to is not a very conducive environment to having good sex that both of you wants.  How does your partner feel about this compulsion? Is frequent sex actually something you both want or is it just something you do to "prove" your relationship isn't bad?

I think you need to address your core faulty belief that a relationship will fall apart without regular sex.  I think sex between couples varies massively and is not in itself an indicator of how good or happy the relationship is.  Somewhere along the line you have absorbed this belief and you're holding to it rigidly.

Sorry, I didn’t mean to ignore your question. My wife hates it. It stresses her out and causes a lot of problems between us.

[gingerbreadgirl]

OK so you have a core belief that regular sex will stop your relationship from disintegrating.  One part of you knows it's irrational, but on a deeper level you feel that obeying this "rule" will act as a talisman that prevents your wife from leaving you.

I think that the usual stuff applies around resisting compulsions, not ruminating, facing your fears, etc.  In your case, facing your fears would probably involve deliberately not initiating or mentioning sex for a good few weeks.  I imagine the prospect makes you extremely anxious but that's how exposure works.  Eventually you habituate to the idea and build evidence for a competing theory that your wife stays with you for other reasons aside from sex. 

I think also there is your wife to consider in all this.  Forgive me if I'm stepping out of line but I think it is wrong to constantly pressure or coerce your wife into sex, even if it is driven by OCD.  It is no different from forcing your family to shower as soon as they come in through the door if you have contamination OCD.  You owe it to her to face your fears with this and resist the urge to have sex compulsively.  I very much doubt either of you particularly enjoys it under these conditions.  Wouldn't it be so much better if you could have sex less often but with real meaning/passion/love, rather than just going through the motions, both of you under extreme pressure, because of some "rule" you read somewhere?

[kaheath80]

10 hours ago, gingerbreadgirl said:

In your case, facing your fears would probably involve deliberately not initiating or mentioning sex for a good few weeks.  I imagine the prospect makes you extremely anxious but that's how exposure works.  Eventually you habituate to the idea and build evidence for a competing theory that your wife stays with you for other reasons aside from sex. 

I did try this last year for 4 weeks and managed it ok. But after that I got anxious again. It’s been ok for a while as my wife has been wanting it every week, which is what my rule is. It’s just the last couple of weeks we haven’t had it and I’ve started to panic. My wife has a low sex drive and I feel it’s entirely possible that if I don’t mention or initiate it for a while, we won’t have it, and I don’t want a relationship without sex. I’m aware that most relationships don’t work this way regarding sex, but to be honest I can’t get my head around how it should work.

10 hours ago, gingerbreadgirl said:

I think also there is your wife to consider in all this.  Forgive me if I'm stepping out of line but I think it is wrong to constantly pressure or coerce your wife into sex, even if it is driven by OCD.  It is no different from forcing your family to shower as soon as they come in through the door if you have contamination OCD.  You owe it to her to face your fears with this and resist the urge to have sex compulsively.  I very much doubt either of you particularly enjoys it under these conditions.  Wouldn't it be so much better if you could have sex less often but with real meaning/passion/love, rather than just going through the motions, both of you under extreme pressure, because of some "rule" you read somewhere?

Nothing to forgive- I agree with you. But I’ve been doing this for so long (way before I knew I had OCD) that I can’t even understand how not to do it. What if we stop having sex entirely?

[gingerbreadgirl]

9 hours ago, kaheath80 said:

 my wife has been wanting it every week

has she though, or has she just been wanting to keep the peace? Not an accusation but a question. 

You say:

9 hours ago, kaheath80 said:

which is what my rule is.

That sounds like a hugely pressuring situation, one very much driven by your anxiety and one your wife has to go along with to keep to this rule and reassure you, or risk creating a firestorm of anxiety (I'm guessing this sometimes happens if she turns you down?)

9 hours ago, kaheath80 said:

 My wife has a low sex drive

If she has been wanting sex every week then I'd say her sex drive isn't particularly low... unless she hasn't wanted to and has just gone along with it? Again not an accusation but a question.  There is of course always compromise with these kinds of things.

I'm not meaning to have a go or accuse you, of course I don't know the situation within your relationship.  But I do think you must be mindful of being too coercive towards your wife, as this may have the unintended consequence of exactly what you don't want (pushing her away.)  There is of course a compromise when partners have differing libidos, but when the person with the higher libido is continually putting pressure on the other one, I think this can create quite a hostile atmosphere in the relationship.

9 hours ago, kaheath80 said:

I don’t want a relationship without sex.

I think it's worth unpacking this statement.  There is a huge difference between having sex every week and having a relationship "without sex". But putting that to one side - what about it is so very important to you? Is it because you enjoy sex, you want to be intimate with your partner, etc? (all very valid reasons?) Or is it because it makes you feel safe - it is reassurance to you? Do you actually want to have sex every week? If you had a 100% cast iron guarantee your partner would never leave you, how often would you want to have sex then? Do you actually enjoy it under these very rigid conditions?

None of these are questions you have to answer but I do think they're worth thinking about because your current situation sounds very unhealthy for both of you. 

I sometimes get anxious about sex too - but it is so far down the list of things that are important to me in my relationship.  I have never labelled it as the "be all and end all". Maybe it might be worth sitting down and thinking about the other things that you love about your relationship and your wife?

All these things are just thoughts and suggestions, so please feel free to tell me to mind my own business x

Edited May 31, 2018 by gingerbreadgirl

[Wonderer]

Hi kaheath, this obsession around having to have sex or else you may break up is actually doing more harm than good, if my partner pressured me into sex or had a rule that it had to be once a week, that would actually drive me away from him rather than being us closer together, I can’t imagine having to deal with so much pressure around sex. Sex is not the be all and end all of relationships, you must work on this so that u do not drive a wedge between you and your wife.xx

[kaheath80]

Totally fine with both your comments, and I agree with them. I just appreciate the advice. I’ve done so well with a lot of my other OCD, but I just can’t get my head around this at all. I’ve been good and not mentioned it today, and neither has my wife. Which just makes me convinced that if I don’t, it will never happen. So I think there’s two things going on here. One, if I don’t plan it it won’t happen. And two, what that means. I think they are both OCD related? Maybe that’s why it’s so hard, that and the fact that BPD is also involved.

I can’t tell half the time whether I want it or not as if a week has passed I feel the need to do it so much that it masks any actual desire. I’m just relieved when it’s over really as then I feel the danger has passed. I realise that sounds awful and I’m totally aware that it’s probably more likely to drive my wife away. So why can’t I stop it? I try so hard to not care about it but I can’t stop panicking when we don’t do it.

And yes, if she turns me down I get very upset and cry. As well as the ‘danger’, I also feel like she doesn’t love me when she says no.

I don’t want to be like this. But I can’t even understand how not to be.

[gingerbreadgirl]

I actually think what you should do is expose yourself to the idea of having a totally sexless marriage.  How does it make you feel, the idea of never having sex again? I think mentally you should really commit to that idea.  Would you stay together? What else would sustain you? How would you feel? How would your wife feel? I think it's important to explore this and really expose yourself to the anxiety you feel.

I think for you sex has become totally unhealthy and doesn't do anything for either of your right now.  I think you should give it up entirely and expose yourself to the possibility of never having sex again.  Really embrace that idea.  This for you is exposure.  Giving it up for a few weeks doesn't work because you are just thinking about when you'll have sex again.  You have linked sex indelibly with safety in your mind.  Committing to the idea of never having sex again is the anti-obsessional path, I think.

I think for you that is the only way you can habituate to sex not being the be all and end all.  I think that sex should be off the table for you until one day the day arrives that you want to do it for enjoyment/intimacy etc. etc. not because you have a compulsive need to do it to feel safe.  But I think until then you need to think "yes, OK, fine.  Our marriage will be a sexless one.  That is not ideal but there are many other reasons I love my wife and I can get used to the idea." I bet the idea makes you extremely anxious and that's why I think you should do it.

[kaheath80]

That fills me with horror. It’s an interesting idea, I’ll discuss it with my therapist if that’s ok? I do want to get over this so if it’s what’s needed I guess I need to try it.

I am struggling with how this works in practice. What if my wife initiates it? Do I have to say no? I feel you might say it depends on whether I actually feel like it, but I can’t tell that anymore. If it’s been weeks and she wants it i’ll want it to make me feel better, how can I tell through all that whether I actually want it as well?

[Wonderer]

Hey, I think GBG has some amazing advice there and I’d have to agree that her exposure plan is great! If ur wife initiates it then I would go with it, because that’s not the same as u NEEDING her to do it to make u feel better about things. However if she doesn’t, u need to resist those thoughts of it meaning anything about ur relationship, it really doesn’t. I have a friend who gets worried and hung up on the frequency of sex in her relationship, we had a chat and I told her that at the end of the day, if everything else is fine, there’s still cuddles and I love you’s and both are happy, it doesn’t matter wether sex happens once a day, week, month or year, there’s so much more to relationships, SO much more.xx

[Lynz]

I like GBG's idea, but I was wondering whether another option would be for you to just never initiate sex. Completely leave it up to your wife to initiate when she is in the mood without any pressure or prompting from you at all. You have this intense need to be in control of sex and I think that is something you need to give up.

The only reason I'm suggesting that is because I don't think it's fair on your wife to go from one extreme (being pressurised to have sex all the time) to the other (no sex at all even if she wants to). The goal here is to have a normal sexual relationship.

Also, you have this idea that if you never initiate sex once a week then you believe you will never have it at all and your marriage will suffer. I think this is the incorrect core belief that needs to be tested through exposures. One way of doing that is letting your wife take control of when you have sex, and then you can see whether your fears come true or not (they won't, but you need to face that possibility for you to be free of this).

[kaheath80]

Yeah that’s kind of what I tried before last year, but I couldn’t stick to it.

The trouble is not having sex also makes me feel totally worthless and like my wife doesn’t want me to and I should hurt myself. I feel unwanted and unloved. And I know the frequency will go down if I stop initiating it, and I don’t want to feel even more worthless than I feel now.

[gingerbreadgirl]

9 hours ago, Lynz said:

I like GBG's idea, but I was wondering whether another option would be for you to just never initiate sex. Completely leave it up to your wife to initiate when she is in the mood without any pressure or prompting from you at all. You have this intense need to be in control of sex and I think that is something you need to give up.

I agree with this.  I think this would be a really good exposure for you - to leave it to your wife to initiate.  And if this means you have a sexless marriage, then so be it.  This is what you need to test with exposure. 

[gingerbreadgirl]

1 minute ago, kaheath80 said:

Yeah that’s kind of what I tried before last year, but I couldn’t stick to it.

The trouble is not having sex also makes me feel totally worthless and like my wife doesn’t want me to and I should hurt myself. I feel unwanted and unloved. And I know the frequency will go down if I stop initiating it, and I don’t want to feel even more worthless than I feel now.

I think you need to do some serious CBT around this.  Maintaining a rule around weekly sex is not the answer to your feelings around worthlessness.  What about the other ways your wife shows you love? Maybe it's worth writing down a list of ways she makes you feel loved that don't involve sex.

[kaheath80]

I don’t know how to do this. There are too many issues wrapped up in this compulsion.

[Lynz]

What does your therapist say about it all and how you should approach it?

[gingerbreadgirl]

1 hour ago, kaheath80 said:

Yeah that’s kind of what I tried before last year, but I couldn’t stick to it.

Hi Kaheath,

Am I right in thinking when you tried last year you were possibly doing other compulsions to keep it alive in your mind (even if without realising)? Were you dwelling on it, analysing it, forcing the thoughts away, or anything else?

My thinking is that if you embrace the idea of having a sexless marriage - as an exposure - but then refuse to carry out further compulsions around it, then eventually this obsession wil start to fade, and it will no longer be linked so strongly with self-worth in your mind.  But you can't embrace it on the one hand, while on the other hand doing compulsions and hoping for it to end.  Just as you couldn't on the one hand embrace dirt as an exposure, while secretly going round and scrubbing all the surfaces later. 

I'm sorry you are struggling so much with this and I really hope you are able to get a handle on it x

[snowbear]

2 hours ago, kaheath80 said:

I don’t want to feel even more worthless than I feel now.

Excellent insights and advice here from GBG and others, Kaheath. 

This sentence is key to your cognitive therapy. Make a note of it and discuss possible alternatives for the 2 behavioural responses of wanting to self-harm and needing to have sex. 

2 hours ago, kaheath80 said:

I know the frequency will go down if I stop initiating it

You know nothing of the sort. With the pressure off and the reason for doing it being shared intimacy instead of 'fulfilling a rule' it's very possible your partner's libido could increase. Nothing kills sex drive faster than rules and obligations. 

The only way you'll find any of this out though is to test it - by not being the initiator, not putting any subtle pressure on your partner to be the initiator, and re-discovering the joys of intimacy and the values which make a relationship that aren't sex-related. 

[kaheath80]

The trouble is that my wife isn’t hugely affectionate. And because I have BPD I react to things in emotional ways. I only feel loved when I’m getting attention from her, and sex is really the only way I get that attention. Most of the time she’s in a mood and taking it out on me or she’s angry at me for having BPD and OCD. She says she doesn’t see them as illnesses and she says she’s sick of me having problems. If I try and ask for her to show she cares she just says my BPD is making me want attention and she’s not going to give it to me. And I’ve suggested we have therapy and she just refuses.

[kaheath80]

1 hour ago, gingerbreadgirl said:

Hi Kaheath,

Am I right in thinking when you tried last year you were possibly doing other compulsions to keep it alive in your mind (even if without realising)? Were you dwelling on it, analysing it, forcing the thoughts away, or anything else?

My thinking is that if you embrace the idea of having a sexless marriage - as an exposure - but then refuse to carry out further compulsions around it, then eventually this obsession wil start to fade, and it will no longer be linked so strongly with self-worth in your mind.  But you can't embrace it on the one hand, while on the other hand doing compulsions and hoping for it to end.  Just as you couldn't on the one hand embrace dirt as an exposure, while secretly going round and scrubbing all the surfaces later. 

I'm sorry you are struggling so much with this and I really hope you are able to get a handle on it x

Thank you x

I think you’re right. Even if I’m not trying to initiate sex I’m trying to plan in my head when we might have time to do it, asking her when we can do it, doing things like trying to make sure we go to bed early so we can fit it in, etc. Are these all compulsions? I don’t know how much of this is OCD and how much is other stuff. If we haven’t had sex for more than a week or so I just feel so depressed I can hardly function.

[Lynz]

4 minutes ago, kaheath80 said:

Even if I’m not trying to initiate sex I’m trying to plan in my head when we might have time to do it, asking her when we can do it, doing things like trying to make sure we go to bed early so we can fit it in, etc. Are these all compulsions? I don’t know how much of this is OCD and how much is other stuff.

All of those sound like compulsions to me, kaheath.

I understand where you're coming from with trying to decipher OCD-behaviour from normal behaviour as I often struggle with this. The best way I find to help though is to see what my intentions are when I do a particular behaviour. For example, am I trying to reduce any anxiety or uncomfortable feeling when I do this behaviour? If the answer is yes then that means it's a compulsion.

[gingerbreadgirl]

10 hours ago, kaheath80 said:

The trouble is that my wife isn’t hugely affectionate. And because I have BPD I react to things in emotional ways. I only feel loved when I’m getting attention from her, and sex is really the only way I get that attention. Most of the time she’s in a mood and taking it out on me or she’s angry at me for having BPD and OCD. She says she doesn’t see them as illnesses and she says she’s sick of me having problems. If I try and ask for her to show she cares she just says my BPD is making me want attention and she’s not going to give it to me. And I’ve suggested we have therapy and she just refuses.

Hi Kaheath,

I'm sorry to hear this and it does sound like there are issues going on beyond OCD, "real life" issues that I'm not sure I am able to comment on but that I think you and your wife need to work through together.  It isn't fair for your wife to pathologise normal emotions or refuse to discuss them on the basis that you have mental health problems.  I think if your wife doesn't show you she cares in any way then that is a problem.  That said, I suppose you need to think about how much that really is the case, whether it is in part how you are intepreting things due to your fears, or whether it has always been like this, or whether this is a temporary thing brought about by frustration/pressure etc.  As OCD-sufferers our partners do put up with a lot and we must understand it can be frustrating for them.  But I think it is a balancing act and if there really is nothing sustaining your care for each other other than sex (which is clearly not healthy right now), then there is a problem there that you need to work out.  How you do that is beyond what I can advise on but maybe others here can help.

All that though is a separate issue to the OCD problem you have around sex and I still think you need to commit to exposure, the anti-obsessional path, which in your case I do think means accepting your worst fear: "maybe our marriage will be sexless forevermore." I'm not suggesting that will or should be the case but I think for you to desensitise to your fears around this, you need to go to the most extreme fear and really embrace it, accept it, and find a way to live with it. 

I have a feeling if you really do this, as in really do this, and work to reduce and stop all your compulsions around it, then it may lead to an improvement in your relationship and your sex life, and the pressure your wife feels.  But I don't think you should do exposure banking on this being the case. 

Sorry to hear you are having such a difficult time at the moment and I hope things improve soon x

Edited June 2, 2018 by gingerbreadgirl