Sex compulsion

[kaheath80]

Firstly, I want to thank everyone who has posted here to give me advice and support through this. It means a lot to me and I am grateful.

I was maybe a little unfair to my wife- she can be supportive and caring at times, but how I described her above does happen a lot of the time too. Obviously I understand that no one here can help me with relationship problems.

I do have some questions and would be curious to hear what you think. I’ll number them to make it easier to answer them.

1. What if one day I do feel like I really want sex (as opposed to needing it)- do I still not instigate it? I assuming not, as if I do and she doesn’t want it I then end up crying and it causes problems. But I just want to make sure.

2. We did have sex this morning, totally her call. I didn’t actually feel like it, but I did it anyway as I felt like I needed it. Was that the wrong thing to do? The problem is that, ironic as this sounds, I think I actually have a low sex drive. If I said no every time she wanted it and I didn’t, plus never instigated it, we would hardly ever do it. And she’d get upset with me saying no all the time. Honestly I am confused about this. I feel fine now because it’s done, which makes me think I did a compulsion and shouldn’t have, but I’m not sure the alternative is any better.

3. I also feel like it doesn’t count unless certain things happen. I guess I was so stressed today that I had trouble getting into it, and it didn’t happen. And then she got upset with me and said she didn’t understand why it wasn’t happening, which made me stress even more. Eventually it did, but how can I stop being so stressed that it must happen that I can’t relax and it doesn’t? This happens quite a lot and it seems to annoy my wife. She then told me she wished I didn’t have these problems, which upset me even more.

4. My wife tends to do things like promise me ‘we’ll do it on Wednesday’ or something like that. I keep telling her not to but she keeps doing it. Then on that day I’ll be completely stressed worrying about every little thing that might mean it doesnt happen, and if it doesn’t I feel even worse than usual and like she doesn’t love me. Should I keep on insisting she doesn’t say things like this? And that if I specifically ask (I sometimes do), she just says something non-committal?

5. Even when I’m being really good and not mentioning or trying to instigate it, I can’t stop thinking about it, wondering will it happen today and so on, and I get really depressed because it feels like she doesn’t love me. She can tell when I’m depressed and questions me as to why, and we end up talking about sex and she reassures me we’ll have it or that she loves me etc. How can I get around this? She won’t accept me not wanting to talk if I’m depressed, she goes onto until I crack and tell her I feel I need to have sex, then we argue and I get upset.

6. Related to that, how do I stop the other compulsions? I’m sometimes able to not instigate it or talk about it or ask for reassurance, but I can’t stop going over it in my mind and trying to work out if she’s in the mood because I feel if it might happen i’ll have to make sure we go to bed early or don’t eat dinner too late etc. Is the best way just to assume that it won’t happen and so not to try and plan around it? 

[PolarBear]

Way too many questions. How do you think the rest of the human species survives? 

You've made a faulty connection between you being loved/wanted/needed to having sex. It's completely erroneous. 

[kaheath80]

They are serious questions about compulsions that I genuinely would like the answers to so I know what to do in the future! 

[PolarBear]

We can't possibly answer every question about every possible scenario that could arise concerning your sex life.

At this juncture i think you need to work on this belief that you need to have sex at a certain frequency or she'll leave you. That comes from disordered thinking. Stop planning it out. If things don't work out, it's not the end of the world.

Edited June 3, 2018 by PolarBear

[gingerbreadgirl]

I'm not sure that is what Kaheath is doing here, PB.  I think she is trying to plan the best way to approach CBT, bearing in mind there are real-life complexities to confront as well.

I will have a think about your questions Kaheath - obviously though I can only give my opinion and I am no expert and I don't know the ins and outs of your relationship, but I can give my bets outsider's perspective. 

[kaheath80]

6 minutes ago, gingerbreadgirl said:

I'm not sure that is what Kaheath is doing here, PB.  I think she is trying to plan the best way to approach CBT, bearing in mind there are real-life complexities to confront as well.

I will have a think about your questions Kaheath - obviously though I can only give my opinion and I am no expert and I don't know the ins and outs of your relationship, but I can give my bets outsider's perspective. 

That would be helpful, thank you.

[kaheath80]

22 minutes ago, PolarBear said:

We can't possibly answer every question about every possible scenario that could arise concerning your sex life.

At this juncture i think you need to work on this belief that you need to have sex at a certain frequency or she'll leave you. That comes from disordered thinking. Stop planning it out. If things don't work out, it's not the end of the world.

I do understand what you’re saying. But also, you often say that people aren’t trying hard enough or are not following the advice given here. I am really trying hard and I just want the best information so I know how to deal with this and get over the OCD.

[Lynz]

4 hours ago, kaheath80 said:

Firstly, I want to thank everyone who has posted here to give me advice and support through this. It means a lot to me and I am grateful.

I was maybe a little unfair to my wife- she can be supportive and caring at times, but how I described her above does happen a lot of the time too. Obviously I understand that no one here can help me with relationship problems.

I do have some questions and would be curious to hear what you think. I’ll number them to make it easier to answer them.

1. What if one day I do feel like I really want sex (as opposed to needing it)- do I still not instigate it? I assuming not, as if I do and she doesn’t want it I then end up crying and it causes problems. But I just want to make sure.

2. We did have sex this morning, totally her call. I didn’t actually feel like it, but I did it anyway as I felt like I needed it. Was that the wrong thing to do? The problem is that, ironic as this sounds, I think I actually have a low sex drive. If I said no every time she wanted it and I didn’t, plus never instigated it, we would hardly ever do it. And she’d get upset with me saying no all the time. Honestly I am confused about this. I feel fine now because it’s done, which makes me think I did a compulsion and shouldn’t have, but I’m not sure the alternative is any better.

3. I also feel like it doesn’t count unless certain things happen. I guess I was so stressed today that I had trouble getting into it, and it didn’t happen. And then she got upset with me and said she didn’t understand why it wasn’t happening, which made me stress even more. Eventually it did, but how can I stop being so stressed that it must happen that I can’t relax and it doesn’t? This happens quite a lot and it seems to annoy my wife. She then told me she wished I didn’t have these problems, which upset me even more.

4. My wife tends to do things like promise me ‘we’ll do it on Wednesday’ or something like that. I keep telling her not to but she keeps doing it. Then on that day I’ll be completely stressed worrying about every little thing that might mean it doesnt happen, and if it doesn’t I feel even worse than usual and like she doesn’t love me. Should I keep on insisting she doesn’t say things like this? And that if I specifically ask (I sometimes do), she just says something non-committal?

5. Even when I’m being really good and not mentioning or trying to instigate it, I can’t stop thinking about it, wondering will it happen today and so on, and I get really depressed because it feels like she doesn’t love me. She can tell when I’m depressed and questions me as to why, and we end up talking about sex and she reassures me we’ll have it or that she loves me etc. How can I get around this? She won’t accept me not wanting to talk if I’m depressed, she goes onto until I crack and tell her I feel I need to have sex, then we argue and I get upset.

6. Related to that, how do I stop the other compulsions? I’m sometimes able to not instigate it or talk about it or ask for reassurance, but I can’t stop going over it in my mind and trying to work out if she’s in the mood because I feel if it might happen i’ll have to make sure we go to bed early or don’t eat dinner too late etc. Is the best way just to assume that it won’t happen and so not to try and plan around it? 

I will have a go at answering your questions, Kaheath. But I also echo GBG in that I'm obviously no expert and these are only my opinions.

1) I think if you know your behavioural response to a refusal would be that you will get upset, then I would leave instigating it yourself for now. However, if you feel able to resist getting upset and stressed at being refused then it will probably be ok from a CBT perspective to instigate it if you are genuinely in the mood and not doing it out of a compulsion. The behavioural response of getting upset and stressed at being refused sex is obviously an issue that needs working on too, but I think it's best to focus on one area for now rather than muddy the waters by focusing on multiple issues at the same time.

2 and 3) I don't think that was the wrong call at all. You are sticking to the plan of action which is to let your wife initiate it without any pressure or prompting from you. However, again there is the issue of getting stressed out over it at first which was obviously a problem, but I think this is understandable as you're trying out a whole new routine of behaviour which will take some getting used to. I think you should continue with only doing it when your wife instigates it but try not to get caught up in applying meaning to it like you have been.

3) I'm not sure of the answer to this question Kaheath as I think this is where there are some non-OCD issues that complicate matters, such as your wife getting frustrated with you and saying she wished you didn't have these problems. This is obviously not helpful at all but at the same time I do feel sympathy as our partners do have to put up with a lot with our OCD. Hopefully someone will be able to answer this question better than I can so I apologise for that!

4) I think asking your wife to modify any aspect of her behaviour to accommodate your OCD is wrong as it only reinforces the idea that there is something for you to be upset and stressed about. If she says things like that then maybe say something encouraging like "I'd like that. That would be great." Rather than explicitly promising to do it on a certain day for example. Or perhaps instead of asking her not to say certain things instead remind her that you want to do it but because of how you've been feeling lately with your OCD then it might not happen, but that you hope it will and that you will try your best.

5) I think all of this is you ruminating over the subject which is obviously another compulsion. Constant ruminating can negatively affect our moods as well so it's no surprise you're feeling depressed and that your wife notices. Ruminating needs to be tackled the same way any compulsion does, by trying to stop it. The best way I've found is that when you catch yourself ruminating try and refocus your attention to what you were previously doing. If it's still going around in your head then observe it but don't react to it. Eventually the more you do this the easier it becomes.

6) Again this is all ruminating I think. It is probably the worst and most insidious compulsion and is one of the hardest to stop, but it can be done with practice. In relation to your last question I would assume nothing and take a non-commital view. So don't assume that it will happen but also don't assume that it won't happen. If you accept that it may happen or may not happen and whatever happens will be ok then that is the best way forward I think.

Hope all of that helps a bit! 

[PolarBear]

Life is not cut and dry. You can't, or at least shouldn't, apply rules to something like having sex.

You like rules. You have fairly rigid thinking. You read somewhere that you should exercise X hours a week and bam! from then on you exercise X hours a week or you panic. I'll bet you read somewhere that a healthy sex life means you have sex once a week and presto, you feel you need to have sex once a week or there will be dire consequences.

This is faulty thinking and it's something you need to address with a therapist. I'm not convinced this stems entirely from OCD.

Nevertheless, you posit a set of circumstances and ask us what you should do in each. My fear is that you will take what is answered and form new rules for the future. Does that make sense?

[kaheath80]

8 hours ago, Lynz said:

I will have a go at answering your questions, Kaheath. But I also echo GBG in that I'm obviously no expert and these are only my opinions.

1) I think if you know your behavioural response to a refusal would be that you will get upset, then I would leave instigating it yourself for now. However, if you feel able to resist getting upset and stressed at being refused then it will probably be ok from a CBT perspective to instigate it if you are genuinely in the mood and not doing it out of a compulsion. The behavioural response of getting upset and stressed at being refused sex is obviously an issue that needs working on too, but I think it's best to focus on one area for now rather than muddy the waters by focusing on multiple issues at the same time.

2 and 3) I don't think that was the wrong call at all. You are sticking to the plan of action which is to let your wife initiate it without any pressure or prompting from you. However, again there is the issue of getting stressed out over it at first which was obviously a problem, but I think this is understandable as you're trying out a whole new routine of behaviour which will take some getting used to. I think you should continue with only doing it when your wife instigates it but try not to get caught up in applying meaning to it like you have been.

3) I'm not sure of the answer to this question Kaheath as I think this is where there are some non-OCD issues that complicate matters, such as your wife getting frustrated with you and saying she wished you didn't have these problems. This is obviously not helpful at all but at the same time I do feel sympathy as our partners do have to put up with a lot with our OCD. Hopefully someone will be able to answer this question better than I can so I apologise for that!

4) I think asking your wife to modify any aspect of her behaviour to accommodate your OCD is wrong as it only reinforces the idea that there is something for you to be upset and stressed about. If she says things like that then maybe say something encouraging like "I'd like that. That would be great." Rather than explicitly promising to do it on a certain day for example. Or perhaps instead of asking her not to say certain things instead remind her that you want to do it but because of how you've been feeling lately with your OCD then it might not happen, but that you hope it will and that you will try your best.

5) I think all of this is you ruminating over the subject which is obviously another compulsion. Constant ruminating can negatively affect our moods as well so it's no surprise you're feeling depressed and that your wife notices. Ruminating needs to be tackled the same way any compulsion does, by trying to stop it. The best way I've found is that when you catch yourself ruminating try and refocus your attention to what you were previously doing. If it's still going around in your head then observe it but don't react to it. Eventually the more you do this the easier it becomes.

6) Again this is all ruminating I think. It is probably the worst and most insidious compulsion and is one of the hardest to stop, but it can be done with practice. In relation to your last question I would assume nothing and take a non-commital view. So don't assume that it will happen but also don't assume that it won't happen. If you accept that it may happen or may not happen and whatever happens will be ok then that is the best way forward I think.

Hope all of that helps a bit! 

Thanks very much for this, Lynz! I really appreciate it and all you said makes sense. I just have one question about answer 4. My wife has said before that she really only promises me things like this because she knows I’m panicking about it and she’s trying to reassure me. So I worry that her continuing to do this is actually part of the OCD. Knowing this, does the same advice still apply?

[kaheath80]

7 hours ago, PolarBear said:

Life is not cut and dry. You can't, or at least shouldn't, apply rules to something like having sex.

You like rules. You have fairly rigid thinking. You read somewhere that you should exercise X hours a week and bam! from then on you exercise X hours a week or you panic. I'll bet you read somewhere that a healthy sex life means you have sex once a week and presto, you feel you need to have sex once a week or there will be dire consequences.

This is faulty thinking and it's something you need to address with a therapist. I'm not convinced this stems entirely from OCD.

Nevertheless, you posit a set of circumstances and ask us what you should do in each. My fear is that you will take what is answered and form new rules for the future. Does that make sense?

PolarBear you are 100% correct. I did indeed read this and that’s where this rule is coming from. 

My therapist has suggested that I have traits of obsessive compulsive personality disorder, and I wonder if that is behind part of this- that causes me to want to follow rules, and the OCD is then making me have the compulsions around it. There’s definitely OCD going on here, right?

I do understand your point. However, that’s not what I’m trying to do here- I just want some guidance on certain situations. I don’t become obsessed with EVERY bit of advice I’m given. Just because I can become obsessed with rules doesn’t mean no one should ever give me any advice.

[Lynz]

3 hours ago, kaheath80 said:

Thanks very much for this, Lynz! I really appreciate it and all you said makes sense. I just have one question about answer 4. My wife has said before that she really only promises me things like this because she knows I’m panicking about it and she’s trying to reassure me. So I worry that her continuing to do this is actually part of the OCD. Knowing this, does the same advice still apply?

No worries you're welcome. Glad to have helped a bit!

Ah well in that case yes I would try and discourage her from saying those things if they are intended as reassurance. If she still says all of that though despite you asking her not to and explaining why then perhaps work at reducing your response to what she says. I had similar trouble with this with some of my obsessions in the past, where my mum would give me reassurance without me asking for it because she obviously wanted me to feel better, but when I asked her not to as it was unhelpful and explained why she just didn't get it and kept on doing it. Eventually I learned to dismiss her reassurance as unimportant in the same way as I would dismiss an intrusive thought as unimportant and that helped me to not latch on to the reassurance she was trying to give me.

[gingerbreadgirl]

i agree with everything said here.

One thing I would add is that I think you have a wider issue of compulsively following rules (as PB says) - and I would be wary of establishing a new "rule" around ERP/CBT to replace the old compulsive rule.  Ironically I think in some ways this could even be compulsive, even though technically you would be doing the correct thing in terms of CBT.  Because you would still be relying on a rigid rule to provide an external reference point. 

I think somewhere along the way you have absorbed this idea that in case of subjective decisions, finding and following rules gives you safety/certainty because you can follow it rigidly and always be sure that what you are doing is the "right thing".  I think in the longer term you need to practise approaching things on a more flexible, "on the fly" basis, without being sure if what you are doing is right or wrong.  (I have a similar problem with my OCD, I find it hard to make decisions without an external reference point.)  I imagine that operating in such a way would make you really uncomfortable and that's OCD at work. So treating this would involve going against this rigidity, acting as others would act, and seeing how you feel. 

[PolarBear]

6 hours ago, kaheath80 said:

PolarBear you are 100% correct. I did indeed read this and that’s where this rule is coming from. 

My therapist has suggested that I have traits of obsessive compulsive personality disorder, and I wonder if that is behind part of this- that causes me to want to follow rules, and the OCD is then making me have the compulsions around it. There’s definitely OCD going on here, right?

I do understand your point. However, that’s not what I’m trying to do here- I just want some guidance on certain situations. I don’t become obsessed with EVERY bit of advice I’m given. Just because I can become obsessed with rules doesn’t mean no one should ever give me any advice.

No, no. Of course not. I was just a little concerned. I hope you find some answers that allow you to relax a bit about all of this.

[kaheath80]

10 hours ago, Lynz said:

No worries you're welcome. Glad to have helped a bit!

Ah well in that case yes I would try and discourage her from saying those things if they are intended as reassurance. If she still says all of that though despite you asking her not to and explaining why then perhaps work at reducing your response to what she says. I had similar trouble with this with some of my obsessions in the past, where my mum would give me reassurance without me asking for it because she obviously wanted me to feel better, but when I asked her not to as it was unhelpful and explained why she just didn't get it and kept on doing it. Eventually I learned to dismiss her reassurance as unimportant in the same way as I would dismiss an intrusive thought as unimportant and that helped me to not latch on to the reassurance she was trying to give me.

Thank you for the advice 

[kaheath80]

9 hours ago, gingerbreadgirl said:

i agree with everything said here.

One thing I would add is that I think you have a wider issue of compulsively following rules (as PB says) - and I would be wary of establishing a new "rule" around ERP/CBT to replace the old compulsive rule.  Ironically I think in some ways this could even be compulsive, even though technically you would be doing the correct thing in terms of CBT.  Because you would still be relying on a rigid rule to provide an external reference point. 

I think somewhere along the way you have absorbed this idea that in case of subjective decisions, finding and following rules gives you safety/certainty because you can follow it rigidly and always be sure that what you are doing is the "right thing".  I think in the longer term you need to practise approaching things on a more flexible, "on the fly" basis, without being sure if what you are doing is right or wrong.  (I have a similar problem with my OCD, I find it hard to make decisions without an external reference point.)  I imagine that operating in such a way would make you really uncomfortable and that's OCD at work. So treating this would involve going against this rigidity, acting as others would act, and seeing how you feel. 

Yes I think you’re right. Thank you. My wife complains I’m never spontaneous, which is true. I find it so hard to not plan everything. I’m sure that must be the personality disorder but that it’s all got wrapped up in the OCD.

My wife made a jokey comment about sex earlier, she keeps touching me. It’s reminded me of the other problem that if we’ve had it that week I rarely have any interest in doing it again. I feel like the danger is over. I realise this isn’t good.

[kaheath80]

6 hours ago, PolarBear said:

No, no. Of course not. I was just a little concerned. I hope you find some answers that allow you to relax a bit about all of this.

Thank you. I appreciate your concern. I do hope that despite this you can see that my OCD has got better since last year. When you said further up this thread that there were other things than OCD going on, I felt slightly anxious that you were trying to say I don’t have OCD. I did try and get reassurance subtly but no one gave me it so I just decided to let it go. Which I wouldn’t have done last year.

[PolarBear]

Good for you

[kaheath80]

Thank you 

[kaheath80]

Hi again!

I have another question. I know you’ll think I’m asking too many. But this is a genuine question. I made my own decision about something but I want to check if I did the right thing to tackle the OCD or not.

My wife suggested we have sex tonight. I know we decided to let her instigate it, but that doesn’t mean I always have to say yes, right? I didn’t want it so I said no. Was that ok?

Usually I would say yes it’s ok. The only reason I am not sure is that I partly said no because I was worried about going to bed late and partly because we’ve done it this week already. I did genuinely not feel like it, but then I usually don’t anyway, so I’m in two minds as to how I should have acted in this scenario. Both saying yes and saying no seem to be at least partly influenced by OCD!

[PolarBear]

Of course you are allowed to day no. But the why behind it is important.

Because you already had sex this week. Poor excuse. Do you have a checklist and when the HAVE SEX box is checked that's it? 

Because you don't feel like it. Perfectly acceptable.

Because you don't want to go to sleep late. Rather poor excuse. How do you think the rest of the world functions with this one? Would going to sleep later break one of your other unjustifiable rules?

[kaheath80]

Just now, PolarBear said:

Of course you are allowed to day no. But the why behind it is important.

Because you already had sex this week. Poor excuse. Do you have a checklist and when the HAVE SEX box is checked that's it? 

Because you don't feel like it. Perfectly acceptable.

Because you don't want to go to sleep late. Rather poor excuse. How do you think the rest of the world functions with this one? Would going to sleep later break one of your other unjustifiable rules?

Thanks, that’s why I’m confused. As there are both good and bad reasons so I feel either one of them would be giving into the OCD. I forgot to add that often in the past I’d say yes in case we didn’t have it again for over a week and I had wished I’d done it when I had the chance. Which seems a good reason to say no. So, two reasons for yes and two for no... so how do I know what’s best?

And yeah, if I don’t get my 8 hours in bed I worry I won’t sleep and will be tired, and then the worry keeps me awake and I don’t sleep and get tired.... it’s a hard one OCD-wise as not sleeping is my worst outcome, and it’s not like anyone can say it’s only OCD and won’t happen, as it does because I’m worrying about it so much!

[kaheath80]

Sorry to bring this up again. My BPD is flaring up this weekend and that means that 1. I really, really don’t feel like having sex- in fact I can’t bear to have it. I just want to be alone, I don’t want to be close to my wife; but 2. My brain is telling me how much I need sex as a week has passed without it and next weekend she’ll be on her period and we can’t go several weeks without it or maybe something bad will happen to our relationship.

I want to scream, the two things are polar opposites and I don’t know which one to listen to?

[Lynz]

You listen to the first one. If you don't want to have sex then don't have it. The other scenario is you feeling like you should have sex because of OCD worries. If you had sex because you're worried that if you didn't then it means something is wrong with your relationship then that would be performing a compulsion.

There are too many rules surrounding sex that you have. There should only be one rule and that is if you want to have sex (and so does your wife of course) then you have sex. That's it.

[Wonderer]

11 hours ago, Lynz said:

You listen to the first one. If you don't want to have sex then don't have it. The other scenario is you feeling like you should have sex because of OCD worries. If you had sex because you're worried that if you didn't then it means something is wrong with your relationship then that would be performing a compulsion.

There are too many rules surrounding sex that you have. There should only be one rule and that is if you want to have sex (and so does your wife of course) then you have sex. That's it.

This! Absolutely 100% do not have sex because ur OCD is telling u to! I’m sorry ur struggling atm with ur BPD, hope u feel better soon xx