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Therapist thinks im responding well cbt /emdr treatment but i just dont know..


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I have to admit im going for longer spells of not being as bothered by my false memory but its by no means gone. Ive been working very hard to pay no attention to the thoughts and to just try and take charge of this horrid thing. 

My therapist thinks im doing well and maybe i am to an extent but today when we done our session i got spiked every single time she asked me to think of the false memory experience as she she calls it. 

I done emdr on a real memory from when I was younger that the therapist thinks may have been an early trigger point for ocd or certainly had some impact on this false memory. However in the session when i completed emdr i felt relieved at the end, its like i undone all the layers and feelings and realised it wasnt half as bad as I had previously thought and i put that memory to bed. However ive had a couple of sessions of emdr relating to the false memory and i still feel anxious and worrried, i cant get to a point were i feel ok with it like I did with the real memory and this is worrying me a lot as of course i feel its because its real and so serious. :(

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As far as I’m aware emdr therapy is to help process real traumatic memories, things that actually happened, so I don’t see how it would help a false one, it’s not real so probably isn’t connected to the part of the brain where real memories are stored.x

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Maybe this should tell you something Saz.  That the EMDR worked on the real memory because it "was" a real memory, there was a real event.  It may not be working on the false memory because it IS false, there was no event.  In other words, this is an obsessive, intrusive, unreal memory.  There is no real event to desesitize.

So far as I'm aware EMDR is used for traumatic events, it's not a recognised treatment for OCD.

Don't worry that you don't feel recovered yet.  Settle for feeling better, for seeing an improvement.  It takes time, it's been a long time that you've felt as you do, that you've reacted and responded in this negative way....it takes time to change that.  It will have a cumlative effect but be patient.  Keep working at it, keep doing what you're doing, keep moving forward.  Getting over OCD isn't a sudden or quick fix, it's a gradual process that you build on.  Concentrate on the advice and beware the sneaky way OCD will make you doubt and question.  

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6 hours ago, Wonderer said:

As far as I’m aware emdr therapy is to help process real traumatic memories, things that actually happened, so I don’t see how it would help a false one, it’s not real so probably isn’t connected to the part of the brain where real memories are stored.x

Hi wonderer and caramoole. 

I think what the therapist is saying is that because ive had thid false memory for so long and its affected me almost as if a real memory would and caused huge distress, then she feels emdr along with cbt is a good approach. Shes not saying its a real memory if that makes sense. Shes is trying to bring my distress levels down when she does it. 

I see what you are saying there caramoole. I know i had issues didnt earlier on and I wrote about them on here. I panicked because i know myself that emdr is linked to ptsd fot real events and this made me doubt myself, do maybe there is an element of that in the back of my mind. 

 

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19 hours ago, Caramoole said:

Maybe this should tell you something Saz.  That the EMDR worked on the real memory because it "was" a real memory, there was a real event.  It may not be working on the false memory because it IS false, there was no event.  In other words, this is an obsessive, intrusive, unreal memory.  There is no real event to desesitize.

So far as I'm aware EMDR is used for traumatic events, it's not a recognised treatment for OCD.

Don't worry that you don't feel recovered yet.  Settle for feeling better, for seeing an improvement.  It takes time, it's been a long time that you've felt as you do, that you've reacted and responded in this negative way....it takes time to change that.  It will have a cumlative effect but be patient.  Keep working at it, keep doing what you're doing, keep moving forward.  Getting over OCD isn't a sudden or quick fix, it's a gradual process that you build on.  Concentrate on the advice and beware the sneaky way OCD will make you doubt and question.  

What if the memory is real though and that's the reason why i cant put it to bed and because its so serious...

On another note i can't even click on any links or read/look at pictures of anything to do with those poor children being separated from their families. What the hell is wrong with this world! I literally feel sick from the tiny bit ive heard of. I already feel like crying for them. Do I avoid this? Is it even avoidance if i don't want to be upset by something distressing? 

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51 minutes ago, Saz said:

What if the memory is real though and that's the reason why i cant put it to bed and because its so serious...

The cognitive therapy you're having should be addressing this issue, Saz. 

You get distracted by thoughts about  'how serious it is' and so you miss the point that the original thought (false memory) troubles you because of the meaning you give it.

Not because it's serious or because of the content or because of any other reason you might come up with. :no: 

55 minutes ago, Saz said:

I literally feel sick from the tiny bit ive heard of. I already feel like crying for them. Do I avoid this? Is it even avoidance if i don't want to be upset by something distressing? 

This time you're getting distracted by your emotions. Your logic gets hijacked by imagining being separated from your own children and it prevents you from seeing the rest of the world objectively. 

The reason you finds these triggers so distressing (to the point you wish to avoid them) is because of the meaning you're giving them in your head. ('Imagine if I was separated from my children, what if this happened to me...) 

Hopefully your therapist will spend some time with you helping you to see how the meaning you're giving the thoughts/images/memory is the problem rather than them being a problem in themselves.

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22 hours ago, Saz said:

What if the memory is real though and that's the reason why i cant put it to bed and because its so serious...

Can't you recognise what you're doing here?  From all that you've learned on the forum and from your therapist you should at least be beginning to identify that this is an OCD thought

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 22/06/2018 at 00:21, snowbear said:

The cognitive therapy you're having should be addressing this issue, Saz. 

You get distracted by thoughts about  'how serious it is' and so you miss the point that the original thought (false memory) troubles you because of the meaning you give it.

Not because it's serious or because of the content or because of any other reason you might come up with. :no: 

This time you're getting distracted by your emotions. Your logic gets hijacked by imagining being separated from your own children and it prevents you from seeing the rest of the world objectively. 

The reason you finds these triggers so distressing (to the point you wish to avoid them) is because of the meaning you're giving them in your head. ('Imagine if I was separated from my children, what if this happened to me...) 

Hopefully your therapist will spend some time with you helping you to see how the meaning you're giving the thoughts/images/memory is the problem rather than them being a problem in themselves.

 

On 22/06/2018 at 21:33, Caramoole said:

Can't you recognise what you're doing here?  From all that you've learned on the forum and from your therapist you should at least be beginning to identify that this is an OCD thought

 

On 22/06/2018 at 19:31, Orwell1984 said:

Hopefully the EMDR will bring down your distress levels in general so that logic will win in the end and the emotions won't be distracting you from your goals x

Sorry for the late reply. Ive logged onto the forum a number of times over the last few days  and logged straight back off. I don't know why im doing that. Im not really even reading any other topics. I guess im trying to be strong and keep my distance from here so I don't start posting lots and lots. 

Im worried now that my therapy isnt working. My therapist has mentioned about the meaning i give thoughts, she's explained how my brain is working at the moment...its probably just me because its really real and so it will never leave me. 

Friends are starting to say to me that im just not myself. Ive noticed that im never myself anymore. I avoid going out and when i do im distant, on edge and just don't want to be there.

For me now no matter what i cant shake that anxious guilt feeling. Its there always. 

 

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10 hours ago, Saz said:

Im worried now

 

10 hours ago, Saz said:

 its really real

 

10 hours ago, Saz said:

 i cant shake that anxious guilt feeling

I think the biggest way you go wrong is that you always interpret feelings as truth.  You repeatedly experience feelings and then you intepret them as showing the truth - what's really going on.  You never allow external input to override the input you receive from your emotions, feelings and intuition.  No matter where that comes from.  Be it a therapist, people on the forum, a book, or even your own rational mind.  To you, feelings and emotions are paramount. I'm not saying this as a criticism - without feelings and emotions we become automotons without empathy or feeling.  BUT when it comes to OCD, feelings and emotions are misleading and dangerous. 

I think you really need to absorb the fact that feelings do not necessarily equal truth, no matter how strong they are.

When you experience feelings and emotions, you need to stand back from them, distance yourself from them, rather than allowing them to take over every time.

You need to look at the feelings in the cold light of day and think: "OK, yes, I am experiencing a feeling of anxiety/guity that what I am afraid of is true.  Just because I am experiencing this feeling does not necessarily make it true. I need to stand back and observe this feeling in the cold light of day without running away with it."

 

 

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33 minutes ago, gingerbreadgirl said:

 

 

I think the biggest way you go wrong is that you always interpret feelings as truth.  You repeatedly experience feelings and then you intepret them as showing the truth - what's really going on.  You never allow external input to override the input you receive from your emotions, feelings and intuition.  No matter where that comes from.  Be it a therapist, people on the forum, a book, or even your own rational mind.  To you, feelings and emotions are paramount. I'm not saying this as a criticism - without feelings and emotions we become automotons without empathy or feeling.  BUT when it comes to OCD, feelings and emotions are misleading and dangerous. 

I think you really need to absorb the fact that feelings do not necessarily equal truth, no matter how strong they are.

When you experience feelings and emotions, you need to stand back from them, distance yourself from them, rather than allowing them to take over every time.

You need to look at the feelings in the cold light of day and think: "OK, yes, I am experiencing a feeling of anxiety/guity that what I am afraid of is true.  Just because I am experiencing this feeling does not necessarily make it true. I need to stand back and observe this feeling in the cold light of day without running away with it."

 

 

I know this isn't my thread and I'll step back from this so I don't derail it but just wanted to say that this is definitely food for thought, so thank you for taking the time to post it. 

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5 hours ago, gingerbreadgirl said:

 

 

I think the biggest way you go wrong is that you always interpret feelings as truth.  You repeatedly experience feelings and then you intepret them as showing the truth - what's really going on.  You never allow external input to override the input you receive from your emotions, feelings and intuition.  No matter where that comes from.  Be it a therapist, people on the forum, a book, or even your own rational mind.  To you, feelings and emotions are paramount. I'm not saying this as a criticism - without feelings and emotions we become automotons without empathy or feeling.  BUT when it comes to OCD, feelings and emotions are misleading and dangerous. 

I think you really need to absorb the fact that feelings do not necessarily equal truth, no matter how strong they are.

When you experience feelings and emotions, you need to stand back from them, distance yourself from them, rather than allowing them to take over every time.

You need to look at the feelings in the cold light of day and think: "OK, yes, I am experiencing a feeling of anxiety/guity that what I am afraid of is true.  Just because I am experiencing this feeling does not necessarily make it true. I need to stand back and observe this feeling in the cold light of day without running away with it."

 

 

Thank you gbg. 

You are right. I think feelings do not always equal truth too. Its definitely something for me to think about. The only trouble is I've picked out a negative from your reply (not your fault) as i often do from responses I get. When you said the following... 

'I think you really need to absorb the fact that feelings do not necessarily equal truth, no matter how strong they are.' 

And

 'Just because I am experiencing this feeling does not necessarily make it true.' 

Ive homed in on the fact that it doesnt 'necessarily' make it true. So its that element of doubt that actually it might still be true. I wish i could take the replies for how positive support that they are meant to be :(

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I thought you might take it that way and honestly I put "necessarily" in there because I am not going to reassure you, I am not going to offer you a guarantee, nobody can do that and by this point you should really know that.

You are feeling anxious and again you are using feelings as evidence.

9 minutes ago, Saz said:

So its that element of doubt that actually it might still be true.

This element of doubt will never be eliminated and you have to move forward with your therapy without trying to eliminate it.

Edited by gingerbreadgirl
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On 01/07/2018 at 15:45, gingerbreadgirl said:

I thought you might take it that way and honestly I put "necessarily" in there because I am not going to reassure you, I am not going to offer you a guarantee, nobody can do that and by this point you should really know that.

You are feeling anxious and again you are using feelings as evidence.

This element of doubt will never be eliminated and you have to move forward with your therapy without trying to eliminate it.

Sorry for the late reply gbg. My replies have been a bit few and far between because im trying to not get myself in a big old mess. Im trying to accept the advice and take it on board. I dont want you guys to think im ignorant or anything x

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